Restoration Project #8 - Huge Bundle of HPI, Kyosho and HSP.

[gandalfnz]

Hello

Ok, here's the feedback so far.
Clutch has held up quite well and works good, but after a few runs I have noticed that already clutch spring is starting to wear due to touching the clutch bell. Those clutches are crap from the factory, as the spring is not sunk in enough, and is almost in line with the top surface of the clutch shoe and sticks out. Hard to understand why they manufactured it like this. I have replaced it with the same half/half clutch but aluminum this time, as I don't have any other.

Brake disk was rubbing quite a lot on the flywheel and I had issues tuning because of it, so I sanded it down and made the diameter smaller so it clears the flywheel, to my surprise, the car still brakes really good, I can't see the difference.

I also installed a clutch bell with higher tooth count, so it should be faster now as well.

So many changes went into this car lately, I can't wait to test it and see how it holds up.

@tudordewolf
While taking the car apart I noticed that my driveshaft (as per pic) is quite worn, due to grub screw not being tight.
However, am I having issues locating this spare part?

 

[tudordewolf]

Hello

Ok, here's the feedback so far.
Clutch has held up quite well and works good, but after a few runs I have noticed that already clutch spring is starting to wear due to touching the clutch bell. Those clutches are crap from the factory, as the spring is not sunk in enough, and is almost in line with the top surface of the clutch shoe and sticks out. Hard to understand why they manufactured it like this. I have replaced it with the same half/half clutch but aluminum this time, as I don't have any other.

Brake disk was rubbing quite a lot on the flywheel and I had issues tuning because of it, so I sanded it down and made the diameter smaller so it clears the flywheel, to my surprise, the car still brakes really good, I can't see the difference.

I also installed a clutch bell with higher tooth count, so it should be faster now as well.

So many changes went into this car lately, I can't wait to test it and see how it holds up.

@tudordewolf
While taking the car apart I noticed that my driveshaft (as per pic) is quite worn, due to grub screw not being tight.
However, am I having issues locating this spare part?

View attachment 164088

Nice, good solution with the brake disk, too!

I think you want HSP 02030

Yeah, the stock HSP clutch shoes & springs just aren't that ideal. The kyosho-made ones fit very nicely and come in four thicknesses, default of 1.0mm but also .90, .95, and 1.1.

I was wrenching on my own FFish today, here's one minor but meaningful tune-up I found - a slightly longer ball-link between the servo arm and servo-saver allow me to set the neutral point to the servo horn's vertical position. This way it swings the same distance in either direction, and adjusting the steering became way easier. I was going in circles trying to adjust the turnbuckles and even setting asymmetrical left and right endpoints to correct for asymmetrical servo travel from having it leaning away from "0 degrees" at rest.

I made it by using 1 half each from HSP's short and medium length links.

 

[gandalfnz]

Nice, good solution with the brake disk, too!

I think you want HSP 02030

Yeah, the stock HSP clutch shoes & springs just aren't that ideal. The kyosho-made ones fit very nicely and come in four thicknesses, default of 1.0mm but also .90, .95, and 1.1.

I was wrenching on my own FFish today, here's one minor but meaningful tune-up I found - a slightly longer ball-link between the servo arm and servo-saver allow me to set the neutral point to the servo horn's vertical position. This way it swings the same distance in either direction, and adjusting the steering became way easier. I was going in circles trying to adjust the turnbuckles and even setting asymmetrical left and right endpoints to correct for asymmetrical servo travel from having it leaning away from "0 degrees" at rest.

I made it by using 1 half each from HSP's short and medium length links.

View attachment 164089

I see, I have had the servo straight vertical when in neutral for a long time, can't remember if I used a steering linkage arm...I think I did.
However, I am still struggling to get the car to go strait, just one increment on the remote steering trim makes it steer either left or right, after WOT when slowing down. It bugs the hell out of me, as I have tried everything! When doing WOT then its OK, as the gyro takes over and keeps it straight, well sorta.
Using Flysky GT5, which I find excellent for the price.
Cheers for pointing out that part, I was looking for the shaft only.

 

[tudordewolf]

I see, I have had the servo straight vertical when in neutral for a long time, can't remember if I used a steering linkage arm...I think I did.
However, I am still struggling to get the car to go strait, just one increment on the remote steering trim makes it steer either left or right, after WOT when slowing down. It bugs the hell out of me, as I have tried everything! When doing WOT then its OK, as the gyro takes over and keeps it straight, well sorta.
Using Flysky GT5, which I find excellent for the price.
Cheers for pointing out that part, I was looking for the shaft only.

I think HSP's steering rack can be a bit prone to binding; all my vehicles have had slightly different issues with it, and it results in the wheels being "biased" in whatever direction they were last turned even if the servo is returning to the same center position every time.

The servo saver has also loosened itself on me in the past, resulting in gradually sloppier steering before I realized what was happening. When I over-tightened it, it made the binding issues worse. There does seem to be a sweet spot where everything is crisp and responsive, but it takes a bit of dialing-in.

Part of me wonders if the change in stability coming off WOT is from braking shifting more traction to the front wheels. I put a little toe-in on mine and it seems to keep it nose-forward.

 

[gandalfnz]

I think HSP's steering rack can be a bit prone to binding; all my vehicles have had slightly different issues with it, and it results in the wheels being "biased" in whatever direction they were last turned even if the servo is returning to the same center position every time.

The servo saver has also loosened itself on me in the past, resulting in gradually sloppier steering before I realized what was happening. When I over-tightened it, it made the binding issues worse. There does seem to be a sweet spot where everything is crisp and responsive, but it takes a bit of dialing-in.

Part of me wonders if the change in stability coming off WOT is from braking shifting more traction to the front wheels. I put a little toe-in on mine and it seems to keep it nose-forward.

Well you see, I don't know if you remember, I actually tightened my servo saver (you are talking about the spring being tight?) quite a bit, after seeing you done yours like that, that's actually a good point, maybe I should give it a bit more slack and see how it goes.
So far I have done the following.

New Alum steering hubs
New steering arms measured with digital caliper, so both sides are exactly the same
New Alum steering linkage
Numerous servos
New Wheels

Plus prob a few more things too...

 

[tudordewolf]

New steering arms measured with digital caliper, so both sides are exactly the same

I need to do exactly that myself, good call. I might've wrong about the servo-saver, this is how it looks on the one I'm happiest with- pretty tight, just a little give. If I turn the wheels with my hand the servo arm moves smoothly with them:

Here's the state of both of mine, pretty much identical upgrade packages: Fuel cap, steering rack, exhaust manifold, diff cases, CVD's, JX servos, wheel bearings & wheels. These medium-hard rubber slicks I found are a ton of fun on concrete, video to follow soon.

They differ in powertrain, where they're completely different. Different displacements, pipes, flywheels, spurs, pinions, and even diffs, but they max out within 3mph of each other in the end. I also "lifted" the pivot-ball fish by bending the tabs on the chassis that limit arm travel downwards, now it has 15mm all the way around, and for where I bash that's made a huge difference, it's almost a rally build:

The one on the left is the .12 and the 50mph one. Admittedly, the more scarred-up one has been taken out more, but it accumulates scratches faster because it'll scrape on pavement transitions, cracks, pebbles...

 

[gandalfnz]

Those hybrids look really good. my street is really good for on road, clean and nice and even pavement, cars can sit quite low.

I am having one major issue with carb binding on the new force engine.
After running about half a tank, it just starts binding, at first made me think its my tuning.
What I noticed that after each run, if I put a bit of ARO into the carb, it will stop sticking, then after half a tank I have a look at it again, and its almost like its got moisture over it, oil is gone, and then it binds again.
Never seen an issue like this before, really confusing, its like pure methanol is left over the slide and just makes it bind.
Carb and throttle linkage are super in line, and not under an angle, its as smooth as I can make it.
I have attached a few videos of the problem.
I wonder if aliexpress would consider sending me a replacement carb, or I am out of luck here.
Its a 30kg servo, you can imagine how much bind there is, when its having issues pulling it.

 

[tudordewolf]

After running about half a tank, it just starts binding, at first made me think its my tuning.
What I noticed that after each run, if I put a bit of ARO into the carb, it will stop sticking, then after half a tank I have a look at it again, and its almost like its got moisture over it, oil is gone, and then it binds again.
Never seen an issue like this before, really confusing, its like pure methanol is left over the slide and just makes it bind.

That certainly is odd. I haven't messed around with slide carbs that much yet... An Sh.18 rotary carb would fit right in, I've been impressed with those.

or just about any other small carb you may have lying around. Maybe the 30kg servo is hitting the end of the slide's travel kind of hard, eventually jamming it?

The videos are unavailable to me, "private"

 

[gandalfnz]

That certainly is odd. I haven't messed around with slide carbs that much yet... An Sh.18 rotary carb would fit right in, I've been impressed with those.

or just about any other small carb you may have lying around. Maybe the 30kg servo is hitting the end of the slide's travel kind of hard, eventually jamming it?

The videos are unavailable to me, "private"

Sorry try now with links...
I tried to buy those SH18 carbs from Amain but they do not ship to NZ.

 

[tudordewolf]

Sorry try now with links...
I tried to buy those SH18 carbs from Amain but they do not ship to NZ.

Dunno if it has international shipping enabled, but you can't beat the price for this one from Redcat

 

[tudordewolf]

Sorry try now with links...
I tried to buy those SH18 carbs from Amain but they do not ship to NZ.

I was watching it, that is strange. It almost looks like the low speed needle is getting caught in the carb and "pinging" as it pops open? That may not be the case, it's just the impression the video creates: The times it pops are are right when it goes from having the needle in the carb body to all the way retracted.

 

[gandalfnz]

I was watching it, that is strange. It almost looks like the low speed needle is getting caught in the carb and "pinging" as it pops open? That may not be the case, it's just the impression the video creates: The times it pops are are right when it goes from having the needle in the carb body to all the way retracted.

It feels like the slide is binding, not the LSN. I have now moved this Carb to a Kyosho FW05 and seems to be operating more smoothly there, and one from Kyosho is SH18 funnily that now went onto this FFish, testing pending.

I am not a fan of rotary carbs, they never impressed me, the throttle response on a slide carb is a lot more smooth and engine just sounds better. To me at least.
That is probably why rotary ones are not popular anymore, and you rarely see them nowdays.

 

[gandalfnz]

Can you please tell me, what is the diameter for that tapered hsp flywheel?

 

[tudordewolf]

Can you please tell me, what is the diameter for that tapered hsp flywheel?

35mm on the tapered on, The stock straight-center flywheel is 39mm.

Don't know what else to suggest about about the carbs, I guess mix and match until you find a good fit? I got a spare Force carb from Ali and a spare Kyosho carb for my FW-06, both would probably fit that engine.

Here's a spare force carb on ali.

 

[gandalfnz]

35mm on the tapered on, The stock straight-center flywheel is 39mm.

Don't know what else to suggest about about the carbs, I guess mix and match until you find a good fit? I got a spare Force carb from Ali and a spare Kyosho carb for my FW-06, both would probably fit that engine.

Here's a spare force carb on ali.

Well you know what? Its hard for me to believe this but I just purchased OS 11k carb, since you spoke of it so highly.
Found it for what I think is a very decent price at $60 usd inc shipping.
Lets see how my traxxas slash and Jato will run now.
Regarding the HSP, I am a bit disappointed, since VX18 ran beautifully, tuned well and idled. So far issues all around with the Force engine, mainly the carb but I will keep at it until its going well. I am waiting for parts from Ali, flywheel, clutch shoes....etc
I got a refund of $35 usd from them because carb is binding.

I am forever looking for a tune, that the car will almost instantly return to a nice idle after a WOT.
I used to believe this was purely to a carb design, but now I think engine plays a part as well?
In order to have tune like this, I have had best results from Kyosho slide carb that come off GXR15 engine.
I just dont like when you come off WOT and idle just hangs high for a few seconds, just doesn't sounds as good.

 

[tudordewolf]

Well you know what? Its hard for me to believe this but I just purchased OS 11k carb, since you spoke of it so highly.
Found it for what I think is a very decent price at $60 usd inc shipping.
Lets see how my traxxas slash and Jato will run now.
Regarding the HSP, I am a bit disappointed, since VX18 ran beautifully, tuned well and idled. So far issues all around with the Force engine, mainly the carb but I will keep at it until its going well. I am waiting for parts from Ali, flywheel, clutch shoes....etc
I got a refund of $35 usd from them because carb is binding.

I am forever looking for a tune, that the car will almost instantly return to a nice idle after a WOT.
I used to believe this was purely to a carb design, but now I think engine plays a part as well?
In order to have tune like this, I have had best results from Kyosho slide carb that come off GXR15 engine.
I just dont like when you come off WOT and idle just hangs high for a few seconds, just doesn't sounds as good.

Congrats on the 11k! I was just about to start wrenching on my own 3.3/11k build myself, I meant to have a video out by now. Soon!

Sorry to hear about the Force engine troubles, the installation looked very clean.

I just started drilling my own engine mounts for such a project. You must have pretty steady hands, I don't think I would have been able to do this without a press - thanks for verifying the spacing!

Kind of similar to your carb issues, I took out my own FW-06 yesterday and ran into tuning problems myself. I couldn't get the idle steady without having it stall on me after a few throttle pulls. Not on the first pull, but unpredictably, which made it hard to troubleshoot. At the end of the day I pulled the air filter and noticed the idle gap seemed way too small compared to my other engines, so maybe it was an air leak. I'll have to investigate.

 

[gandalfnz]

Congrats on the 11k! I was just about to start wrenching on my own 3.3/11k build myself, I meant to have a video out by now. Soon!

Sorry to hear about the Force engine troubles, the installation looked very clean.

I just started drilling my own engine mounts for such a project. You must have pretty steady hands, I don't think I would have been able to do this without a press - thanks for verifying the spacing!

View attachment 164354


Kind of similar to your carb issues, I took out my own FW-06 yesterday and ran into tuning problems myself. I couldn't get the idle steady without having it stall on me after a few throttle pulls. Not on the first pull, but unpredictably, which made it hard to troubleshoot. At the end of the day I pulled the air filter and noticed the idle gap seemed way too small compared to my other engines, so maybe it was an air leak. I'll have to investigate.

Hmmm, that hole looks a bit to the right, or is it just the camera?
I will get that force 18 engine right, just need to figure out why its so hard to tune, I bet its the carb, I was expecting a lot more from the carb though.
Tell you what, the best tuning I got out of the carb that came with GXR15 engine, engines run amazing with instant return to idle.
This particular carb in my experience is very good, I have 4, and they all tune good.
My two FW-06 both came with this engine and carb, I guess they are the first batch of FW06, because later ones are with KE15 engine and a different carb, its probably a rebranded force/SH carb?
I now hunt these engines are carbs locally as if they were gold, as quite a few engines pop up that are toast and I strip them for parts and carbs....
I am not sure what the model number of it is...
Interesting about this carb is that even though it appears like it has a dust boot, it actually does not, the slide is fully naked once it comes out, but its okay, never had issues.
Oh and it fits two sizes of engine necks, due to having a removable plastic sleeve, pretty slick!

Found it

 

[tudordewolf]

Hmmm, that hole looks a bit to the right, or is it just the camera?

I think you're right, I may just run with it and repeat that on the other one. The other punch-mark is a little to the right too. At least I'll be able to try out 2 slightly different spacings if I need. I bought a bunch of the mounts since they're under $2 each, the anodized ones are really nice too.

I've got the KE15SP version, it's been a delight apart from yesterday's troubles. Cool tip about that carb, there's one on ebay near me right now, tempting. Good solution with the sleeve too, I epoxied a 12mm sleeve over a 10mm carb to make an SH slide carb fit a TT engine.

 

[gandalfnz]

I think you're right, I may just run with it and repeat that on the other one. The other punch-mark is a little to the right too. At least I'll be able to try out 2 slightly different spacings if I need. I bought a bunch of the mounts since they're under $2 each, the anodized ones are really nice too.

I've got the KE15SP version, it's been a delight apart from yesterday's troubles. Cool tip about that carb, there's one on ebay near me right now, tempting. Good solution with the sleeve too, I epoxied a 12mm sleeve over a 10mm carb to make an SH slide carb fit a TT engine.

Go for it, might turn out to be just as good as 11k, but almost half the price?
The only downside or maybe its an upside is that GXR15 uses a special kind of pull start, unlike KE15 which I believe is standard with OWB.
GXR15 has no OWB, its quite interesting the way its designed.
Eventually I just learned how to repair my own pull starts, which was tricky and required drilling hoes and pouring epoxy into them, so now they are better than factory, pretty much bullet proof.

 

[tudordewolf]

Go for it, might turn out to be just as good as 11k, but almost half the price?
The only downside or maybe its an upside is that GXR15 uses a special kind of pull start, unlike KE15 which I believe is standard with OWB.
GXR15 has no OWB, its quite interesting the way its designed.
Eventually I just learned how to repair my own pull starts, which was tricky and required drilling hoes and pouring epoxy into them, so now they are better than factory, pretty much bullet proof.

They may have done something similar with the KE15, I'm able to freely move the flywheel in both directions despite it having a pull start; it somehow only engages when you've pulling on the cord. Very convenient for setting the piston to BDC

I am forever looking for a tune, that the car will almost instantly return to a nice idle after a WOT.
I used to believe this was purely to a carb design, but now I think engine plays a part as well?

That mirrors my own experience, at first when I caught onto the importance of a good carb I figured the engine was basically just a combustion chamber with an RPM limit, but now I'm starting to realize every little bit matters; the porting and compression that determine peak performance will also play a part in a steady idle.