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What are cvds?
- Thread starter godale03
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AC48
Hardcore RCTalk User
They replace dogbones. They make your drivetrain much smoother and more durable because the CVD connects to the diff with a dogbone end, but it is all one piece at the wheel. This way there is no friction when you turn because the dogbone doesn't have to slide in the axel, its all one piece.
Someone else can probably explain better lol, but you are right, they are a part of your drivetrain.
Someone else can probably explain better lol, but you are right, they are a part of your drivetrain.
There are a few different styles, I'm not sure which are stronger and why there are different ones available.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LX3214&P=7
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LX3277&P=7
This is one kind of like the one above that is put together:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFUG3&P=7
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LX3214&P=7
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LX3277&P=7
This is one kind of like the one above that is put together:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFUG3&P=7
Mr T-Maxx
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I've always had a question similar to this. I understand the difference between slider axles and the CVD's/Dogbones.
My question is; What is the difference between dogbones and CVD's.
If you look at the links Olds provided, the first is listed as a dogbone, the second is listed as a CVD. They both have the same end for the diff side but vary in the type of U-joint on the wheel end.
What are the pros/cons??
Mr T
My question is; What is the difference between dogbones and CVD's.
If you look at the links Olds provided, the first is listed as a dogbone, the second is listed as a CVD. They both have the same end for the diff side but vary in the type of U-joint on the wheel end.
What are the pros/cons??
Mr T
I believe the one listed as a dog-bone isn't really what we refer to as a dogbone. It's a different style of a cvd (constant velocity drive) axle. This style is usually known as a Universal Joint.
The second one is what is more often called a CVD, the cup styled one.
I'm not sure of the benifits or weaknesses of either. My guess is the U-joint is less flexible and used when the angle of operation isn't as severe.
In my personal experiance, the U-joint style was stronger and lasted longer than the CVD cup style. But that could be due to the mfr and not the style.
By the way, this is a true dogbone:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDUK4&P=ML
The second one is what is more often called a CVD, the cup styled one.
I'm not sure of the benifits or weaknesses of either. My guess is the U-joint is less flexible and used when the angle of operation isn't as severe.
In my personal experiance, the U-joint style was stronger and lasted longer than the CVD cup style. But that could be due to the mfr and not the style.
By the way, this is a true dogbone:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDUK4&P=ML
rocknbil
RCTalk Addict
If you look at any of the links to products in this thread - note the one end that goes into the transmission drive, the end with a ball and two pins sticking out.
True dogbones have one of those on BOTH ends of the driveshaft. The dogbones bounce around and if your suspension travel is set too long in the rear they can even fall out when a steep angle occurs on the A-arm.
As for the first link that olds posted - those are stock universals, like he said, something AE has added in recent years. Losi's always provided universals. The second is an MIP set, and the third, same thing, a stock but cupped version of a universal.
Which brings me to a very highly argued point: MIP CVD's are not true CVD's (constant velocity drives.) Any of you that have worked on a volkswagen, 4WD, or any other full-scale vehicle that employs CVD's will know the difference. A CVD is a massive ring with balls inside that slide along channels in the ring, and the axle floats in the center of this.
MIP CVD's are really universal drives that are pinned to the outer shaft instead of a reciprocating "U" in the other half of the shaft. Calling them CVD's is a good marketing strategy.
This doesn't make them inferior in any way. The idea is to reduce the drive train slop and provide a good constant drive to the rear wheels, which they do. The first hop-up you add to any older AE is to pull the dogbones and put MIP CVD's in. Like I said, with Losi's, it's "just more of the same" because they already have universals. I run MIP CVD's in all my electric and nitro AE trucks.
CVD's vs. universals? There are those that would argue this, but I won't, there really is no difference. The exception is axles with universals on both the outer end (wheel) and inner end (tranny) of the axle, with a slider shaft between. This, in theory, reduces all slop in the rear drive train, but the trade-off is that will only be as efficient as the sliding mechanism.
True dogbones have one of those on BOTH ends of the driveshaft. The dogbones bounce around and if your suspension travel is set too long in the rear they can even fall out when a steep angle occurs on the A-arm.
As for the first link that olds posted - those are stock universals, like he said, something AE has added in recent years. Losi's always provided universals. The second is an MIP set, and the third, same thing, a stock but cupped version of a universal.
Which brings me to a very highly argued point: MIP CVD's are not true CVD's (constant velocity drives.) Any of you that have worked on a volkswagen, 4WD, or any other full-scale vehicle that employs CVD's will know the difference. A CVD is a massive ring with balls inside that slide along channels in the ring, and the axle floats in the center of this.
MIP CVD's are really universal drives that are pinned to the outer shaft instead of a reciprocating "U" in the other half of the shaft. Calling them CVD's is a good marketing strategy.
This doesn't make them inferior in any way. The idea is to reduce the drive train slop and provide a good constant drive to the rear wheels, which they do. The first hop-up you add to any older AE is to pull the dogbones and put MIP CVD's in. Like I said, with Losi's, it's "just more of the same" because they already have universals. I run MIP CVD's in all my electric and nitro AE trucks.
CVD's vs. universals? There are those that would argue this, but I won't, there really is no difference. The exception is axles with universals on both the outer end (wheel) and inner end (tranny) of the axle, with a slider shaft between. This, in theory, reduces all slop in the rear drive train, but the trade-off is that will only be as efficient as the sliding mechanism.
Revo Rancher
Hardcore RCTalk User
Rockinbil:
Good explanation. I saw where the confusion was getting to be compounded as TRUE CVD do not have u-joints. Looks like a marketing ploy by AE and MPI on some of their products. Think of CVD's as a sort of spider gear set up.
Good explanation. I saw where the confusion was getting to be compounded as TRUE CVD do not have u-joints. Looks like a marketing ploy by AE and MPI on some of their products. Think of CVD's as a sort of spider gear set up.
If anyone uses dogbones and want to eliminate or reduce the slop in the axle sliding back and forth in the cups....just cut small peices of fuel tube and put them in the cups at both ends of the axle...leave a small amount of play for suspension to travel and not bind up.....your dogboes won't fall out as often because they won't slip all the way down into one cup.
- Thread starter
- #11
This is what my X Term Pro comes with... Sealed cup-style differentials with steel gears. Are these CVD'S? Or are they something else that I should upgrade to true CVD's? Thanks Guys
Tom
Tom
- Thread starter
- #12
Mr T-Maxx said:AE= Associated engineering; They are a popular R/C manufacturer; RC10GT (nitro stadium truck), MGT (nitro Monster truck), and a whole plethora of electric onroad.
Rock-n-bil.....GREAT stuff
Mr T
You Know that is what I figured however I figured I would ask. Still a newbie. Actually I am looking for a good ST to club race and bash with and I was looking at the RC10GT Factory Team Kit, and was wondering if that was a good ST.
Tom
can't go wrong w/ the RC10GT or the XXX-NT losi trucks...they seem to be the best choices out there...
rocknbil said:
In the 1:1 world, it's arguable as you stated above. Why they call them cvd's at all on RC's doesn't make any sense. It's like you said, the grooves with balls is a true cvd isn't it?
Does it go fast enough for you?
Can You control it? or do you want some more OOOMMMPH from it?
If you like the way it rides and it ain't broke......Don't fix it.....
Can You control it? or do you want some more OOOMMMPH from it?
If you like the way it rides and it ain't broke......Don't fix it.....
- Thread starter
- #17
actually I have never run it. Bran spankin new! I was just curious if the ones that are on it ( they look like dogbones except they fit into a cup with slots in it) need to be replaced for strength and durability... but I do like your answer though.... if it ain't broke! :hammer:
rocknbil
RCTalk Addict
Mr T-Maxx said:
Actually it's . . . Associated Electrics.
Sorry, Just too used to typing AE.Here's a pic of a full scale VW CVD from an old airbrush illo I did like 20 years ago:
Last edited:
CorradoPsi
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gotta love a guy that knows his dubs.
as far as RC cars and Universals VS. CVD's. while RC cvd's are not a true CVD. they are called such to differentiate them from the double yoke style Universal. if you look at the different brands. all ball and cup style joints are called CVD's and all double yokes are called Universals. while it may not be a true application of the term, it does serve a purpose.
universals and dogbones can also be looked at as tuning options depending on your track. a very smooth track with rhythm sections would be a good application for dogbones, while a very rough track with ruts and torn up bumps is good for universals.
the reason being, a dogbone when under drive pressure, tends to lock the suspension in position. so in that rhythm section it will prevent the suspension from using full travel and allow you to skim over the bumps at steady throttle. it can also be used to load the suspension on a jump to achieve greater distance.
a universal will allow more suspension travel when under drive pressure, and it will soak up ruts and bumps while accellerating.
both will work fine on any track but this is just one more tuning option thats available. i know that i for 1 am not near good enough to worry about it any time soon. just something I've learned.
as far as RC cars and Universals VS. CVD's. while RC cvd's are not a true CVD. they are called such to differentiate them from the double yoke style Universal. if you look at the different brands. all ball and cup style joints are called CVD's and all double yokes are called Universals. while it may not be a true application of the term, it does serve a purpose.
universals and dogbones can also be looked at as tuning options depending on your track. a very smooth track with rhythm sections would be a good application for dogbones, while a very rough track with ruts and torn up bumps is good for universals.
the reason being, a dogbone when under drive pressure, tends to lock the suspension in position. so in that rhythm section it will prevent the suspension from using full travel and allow you to skim over the bumps at steady throttle. it can also be used to load the suspension on a jump to achieve greater distance.
a universal will allow more suspension travel when under drive pressure, and it will soak up ruts and bumps while accellerating.
both will work fine on any track but this is just one more tuning option thats available. i know that i for 1 am not near good enough to worry about it any time soon. just something I've learned.
