This is extremely dumb to most of you

[SpitFireV12RR]

Yes, I'll wait till it's warmer(which should be sunday?). I hate Florida...one days it's hot n' Humid and another day it's Freezing! VB and RR, it's not too boggy, but It does hesitate so I'll make one 1/16 incrimit, and richen the HSN by 1/8 of a turn. I know the LSN is running a little too rich because when it Idle's there a visible smoke trail(Before you couldn't see much smoke when it idled). The high-speed is running fine. Just I need to mess around with that low speed when it's warmer. It usually tends to get pretty warm in the mid-day so I'll see if it's warm out.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Revo Rancher]

The only reason why I am having you richen the HSN even while you are leaning the LSN is because your pinch test times are too low. Ideally, if the buggy is running good, you have a nice smoke trail on acceleration, and smooth power all through the throttle ranges, the pinch test time should be between 3-5 seconds. You are at 3-4 right now, so if you only leaned the LSN a 1/16th or an 1/8th, you might get too lean again. If it is still boggy, we'll take away the HSN 1/8 we gave it today, and then move back to the LSN.

 

[SpitFireV12RR]

OKay...so richen the HSN but don't touch the LSN until its warmer...got it, gonna go try again!

 

[Revo Rancher]

Crossed lines here, no, do both, lean the LSN 1/16, richen HSN 1/8th. This should get you better response on the low end and not mess us up too much until the weather gets close to normal.

 

[vbgagnon]

:i'm with stupid: what he said ^^^^

 

[SpitFireV12RR]

Okay...well actually I just got in and when I richened up the High-Speed needle, the boggy-ness stopped all together. I know it sounds weird but when I richened the HSN(Out is to richen and in is to lean, right?), both low end stoped the poop and so did high-end. Its amazing how such a little turn can effect such performance! It also sounds diffrent, like it wants to go faster! It is cold down here so I'm thinking that has something to do with the act. I'm expecting cold-ness for about 3 days, so I'll run good like this for about this time. I'll try and get a digi-cam video of the car, to see if it looks like it's running good. No sound, but it should explain.

 

[kx250ryder]

This thread has gone on for six pages for no reason. Although it is fun to read, we are torturing this guy. A temp gauge would have cured this 10 minutes into the ritual. If you are broke, scrounge up five bucks and send it to my paypal account, I will mail you my old OFNA gauge. It makes tuning these engines go from being a thorn in your side that makes you want to quit the hobby, to a 30 second adjustment that you barely notice.

Once you have my, or any other temp gauge simply do the following:

- Get the car running until the chasis is warm.
- Check the temperature at the glow plug. Always note the highest reading each time you measure, as that will be the most accurate. You are looking for temps for most .21 size engines between 220-250 degrees after break in, maybe 200-220 during break in. Adjust the HSN (1/12th turn at a time, 1 hour on a clock) clockwise to increase temps, and counter clockwise to decrease temps. Make sure that you see smoke from low to mid RPMs when accelerating.
- After getting the temps close, start tuning the low end. Pinch it as mentioned above, shooting for 3-5 seconds after break in, and maybe 5-7 seconds during break in. Clockwise on the LSN will decrease time to die, counter-clockwise will increase time to die. Again, make sure smoke is visible from low to mid RPMs. Another test for the low end, is to run the car wide open, and lock it up to a stop for about 8 seconds. When you try to take off again, it should launch with minimal hesitiation.
- Once the HSN and LSN are adjusted, work on the idle. To get best performance, you want it to idle as high as possible without making the car move. Note that changes to the LSN can change the idle, such that a leaner LSN adjustment will cause the idle to increase and vice versa. So you may have to adjust the idle when you change other needle settings.

The reason I say get a temp. gauge is that if you are by yourself, and just learning, you probably don't know what a properly tuned engine should sound like. I ran into that problem, until I visited a track nearby and heard how their engines ran. It turned out I was running mine way too rich, and wasn't getting anywhere near the performance I should have. A temp gauge using the above numbers should get you pretty close to ideal sound.

EDIT: Tuning changes are not instantaneous. It can take 30 seconds to see the full effect of a change, so be patient when making changes.

 

[Revo Rancher]

kx, all along we have been saying a temp gun would be best, but really, your method really is not that much different than any other tried and true method, plus, remember, we're doing this without the benefit of being present to hear and see the changes take effect, plus, we got snookered when we found out the LHS messed with the LSN without us knowing about it. That alone was good for 2 pages.

Think of it this way; you have a complicated R/C kit, you have never built anything in your life before, and I have the directions, and I am typing the steps from here.

 

[kx250ryder]

Actually, unless I missed it, nobody mentioned a temp. gauge or temperature numbers. That is why I posted above. Spelling out engine sounds will never work as well as numbers in this case because numbers are not open to mis-interpretation. You tune until the numbers are right, and then the car runs right as a result. The pinch test stuff is almost the same as listed above, but having your HSN right is crucial. Given, some engines run hotter, and some run cooler, but a temperature gauge is by far and away the easiest way to help a beginner out.

 

[Revo Rancher]

At this point, I would lean the LSN 1/16 (it seemed to like the LSN a little lean) and richen the HSN by about 1/8. Your bogginess on the low end should be better and overall you should be richer, protecting your engine. If it runs decent there and still gives a good smoke trail when accelerating, stay ther until you get a temp gun. Still occasionally check it by the pinch method to see if the tune has changed.

I just said this at 1:43 today, and it is not the first time it has come up. Maybe you did not read the whole thread after all?

 

[SpitFireV12RR]

kx250ryder...5.00 for what kind af temp gun? I'd like chat on aim about it before i buy it...and 5.00 does seem cheap!

 

[Revo Rancher]

Vb posted this at 3:32 yesterday:

If your dying at 1-2 seconds and will idle for a minute to me that is lean. My stuff won't idle for a minute with out loading up big time. Do you have a temp gun? I would definatly look into getting one.

MW posted this about the same time:

Just a suggestion (and mind you, this is simply my personal opinion), I'd save up to get the hump pack for the RX, then get yourself a temp. gun. Rechargeable batteries for the TX can come later. Most TX's that I know use 8 "AA" batteries, and you can go a month or two on a set

 

[kx250ryder]

Ok, so revise my statement to 5 pages without the suggestion, instead of 6, thats still from 12-28 until 1-5 that he went until then. I am not trying to start a flame war, just trying to save him some of the frustration I dealt with trying to learn nitro. I would have chimed in sooner with help, but I typically only read the 1/8th buggy thread of the different forums I visit. Today was a slow day, so I browsed some other topics, and noticed this one. Tuning engines is tough without a gauge until you get used to the sound of a good running engine.

Spitfire yeah five bucks, to cover shipping. Basically, I am giving it to you, because I don't need it. Nitrohouse had a sale months back on the OFNA PCR gauges for around $25.00 so I scooped one up to replace my old orange OFNA one. If you have the coin, I would say save up and get the PCR unit instead. Its compact, is shaped to fit inside the engine head, backlit, and shows both current, and high temps at once. I would rather not sell you my old orange one, because its not as good, but I will if you want.

 

[SpitFireV12RR]

OKay I think we have the whole problem figured out. I did alot of 4 one-thousand WOT passes through about 50-75 feet on pavement. It goes so fast that you can see a bunch of blue smoke when it starts and when it stops...and behind it. If you look directly at it, while it's going you can't see anything but behind it there's clouds. It runs good and cut out on be but that was because of an empty tank. I did the pinch test...and I got to 5 aligators. I really won't let it go WOT for too long as it's still in break-in and I don't want it to over-rev itself. Thanks everyone for the help and I just got $20.00 for watching my sister so I"m off to buy a hump-pack & charger.

Thanks again EVERYONE who contributed,
Todd

 

[Revo Rancher]

kx, you are missing a lot of info and missing the point. First, the point is, he does not have a temp gun, doesn't have the money for one (at least up to now) and has a brand new buggy he wants to break in. Our goal, and by "our" I mean me, MW and a few others, was to get him at least running his new rig with a motor that will start, idle and go down the road. He can learn to tune by any method he so chooses at a later time, to include using a temp gun, which I favor as well.

The info you are missing, is that the kid has already been told a long time ago and in his own early threads when he was shopping for a R/C, that of the accessories he will need, he will need a temp gun. He has now put a priority on the hump pack, not a bad decision, but he realizes he needs a temp gun eventually as well. Since tuning with a temp gun is not an absolute in order to get the car running, we all offered constructive comments to get Todd running. Considering his newness to the hobby, the type of vehicle he chose to start with, and the fact that using words typed out over the internet is like a blind man reading an x-ray, I think 4-5 pages devoted to Todd is not TOO MANY PAGES! Maybe you can help us here, now since you know a bit more about the subject at hand.

Todd, I am soon to be posting up a bunch of NIB items I have for sale. One of the items will be a failsafe. A heads up so you can save up for it. It will be at a very affordable price, too. I'll let you know the moment I post the items. There will be photos (that is why I am not doing it right now).

 

[kx250ryder]

That's why I offered him my old temp. gun. Spitfire/Todd, if you are really that broke, just pm me your address, and I will send you my old gauge free. I would rather set my car on fire than go without my temperature gauge for a day. Funny story, we actually did burn down a Losi GTX truck when we were kids because we couldn't figure out how to get it running right, before temp. gauges were affordable. It was always stalling, burning glow plugs, etc. There wasn't really an internet forum back then to come to for help.

EDIT: To clarify, by burn down I meant literally set on fire, not accidentally blow up the motor.

 

[Revo Rancher]

Nice offer, kx. I remember being 15 and sometimes extra money was hard to come by. A lot of the kids in my neighborhood these days get 20.00/day from their parents. I could only wish I had that when I was that age. Crazy, just crazy.

 

[SpitFireV12RR]

A lot of the kids in my neighborhood these days get 20.00/day from their parents. I could only wish I had that when I was that age. Crazy, just crazy.

HOLY poop! Its almost impossible to come by $20.00 a week...let alone EVERY day!! But I do thank my parents for not getting me everything as it teaches me the value of a dollar, and I must say, I am cheap!! :shrug: Anyways, kx...are you sure you want to do that? Is there something I have that I can send you back? I could, in return, give you a fast lil' 1/28 scale car that I bought on Black Friday(It was my 3rd one.). Anyways, I'll PM you about it with my adress. I am a little dissipointed with speed, but it'll do for now(Especially with how much gas it eats up!!).

Thanks VB and Revo for all you help(would any of you guys spare me your names? I feel weird being called by my name but calling you RR!)!

 

[kx250ryder]

I will try to get it out asap. Don't worry about trade. For the price of a drink in the bar, I can make someone's hobby more entertaining, seems worth it to me. Check your PM for my return address, so you know where its coming from.

 

[Monkey Wrench]

The speed will come, man! The more often you run that puppy, the more "broken-in" it'll become and, with the aid of a temp. gun (which, kx, is very, very cool of you to offer to him) you'll be able to dial that guy right in!

Have fun with it, man! That's a slick buggy you have there and it'll give you a lot of fun for years to come!