Restoration Project #8 - Huge Bundle of HPI, Kyosho and HSP.

[gandalfnz]

If those are shock screws, the wheelie bars use the same ones but longer.

Yes, they seem like they are the right fit.
Thank you

Huh, I had no idea! That makes sense, considering the variety of clutch bells out there...

Congrats on the Inferno GT, that's a great deal! That's one of my future dream models, once I've cleared the backlog. I went ahead and ordered another roller to take the TRX 3.3, a transplant will be easier than trying to assemble one from scratch and I'll have no excuse to put it off any longer.

Thank you! Eagerly awaiting its arrival!

I am thinking about modifying a traxxas engine to used HSP 3 or even 2 piece ALU clutch shoes. Do you think its possible?
It seems as if the Traxxas clutch bell is slightly smaller in diameter.

 

[biggman100]

Really good you have both for comparison, that would make a big difference in how stable they are!
Tested the Fish today, shifts beautifully, then realized that the it was only hitting the side of the spur pin, so claw is already damaged. Damn!
Clutch assembly needs to be moved as close to the spur as possible, before tightening the grub screw.
Man, what else can go wrong with this thing....

Dont ask, or it will. Its an HSP, so, they are prone to a lot of breakage.

 

[tudordewolf]

Yes, they seem like they are the right fit.
Thank you


Thank you! Eagerly awaiting its arrival!

I am thinking about modifying a traxxas engine to used HSP 3 or even 2 piece ALU clutch shoes. Do you think its possible?
It seems as if the Traxxas clutch bell is slightly smaller in diameter.

I think it's feasible, it might work best with a "thinner" flywheel front-to back since the Traxxas one is only 7mm or so. The Traxxas pilot shaft is shorter than the SG Shaft overall, so you might run into the opposite problem as before with the mounts, where the clutch bell be would too far forward. You could change just the clutch nut and use 2 torsion-spring shoes instead of the semicircles.

It might be easiest to go with a pre-matched 3pc flywheel & shoe set meant for TRX engines.

 

[gandalfnz]

I think it's feasible, it might work best with a "thinner" flywheel front-to back since the Traxxas one is only 7mm or so. The Traxxas pilot shaft is shorter than the SG Shaft overall, so you might run into the opposite problem as before with the mounts, where the clutch bell be would too far forward. You could change just the clutch nut and use 2 torsion-spring shoes instead of the semicircles.

It might be easiest to go with a pre-matched 3pc flywheel & shoe set meant for TRX engines.

I hear ya, but then you have to end up buying these expensive "thinner" clutch shoes.
I was hoping that HSP ones can be made to work somehow.
It would be nice if those HSP half circle ALU clutch shoes could fit into a Traxxas clutch bell. With Traxxas everything is proprietary.

Just doing a bit of research, and found out that Kyosho GT1 uses the same 2 speed clutch type as HSP, metal arm comes out and hits the pin.
Apparently its weakest point....here we go again!

 

[tudordewolf]

I hear ya, but then you have to end up buying these expensive "thinner" clutch shoes.
I was hoping that HSP ones can be made to work somehow.
It would be nice if those HSP half circle ALU clutch shoes could fit into a Traxxas clutch bell. With Traxxas everything is proprietary.

Just doing a bit of research, and found out that Kyosho GT1 uses the same 2 speed clutch type as HSP, metal arm comes out and hits the pin.
Apparently its weakest point....here we go again!

They had to copy it from someone!

 

[gandalfnz]

@tudordewolf

Hey dude, I received an email notification about your Frankie build, but when I click on it the post is not there?
Did you delete that post?

 

[tudordewolf]

@tudordewolf

Hey dude, I received an email notification about your Frankie build, but when I click on it the post is not there?
Did you delete that post?

Sharp eye! I decided to post it in the daily thread instead of the "introduce yourself" forum that my original build thread was in. It's here.

Literally took me a year from when I last mentioned it, but I got the 11k carb running & on video, and it runs beautifully, though you know this for yourself by now...

 

[gandalfnz]

Sharp eye! I decided to post it in the daily thread instead of the "introduce yourself" forum that my original build thread was in. It's here.

Literally took me a year from when I last mentioned it, but I got the 11k carb running & on video, and it runs beautifully, though you know this for yourself by now...

Runs real well!
We had to be very patient to see this 20 sec video

I could not get the 3.3 the idle lower than that. It just shuts down.

 

[tudordewolf]

Runs real well!
We had to be very patient to see this 20 sec video

I could not get the 3.3 the idle lower than that. It just shuts down.

I managed to record a full minute today, with the body! I think I'll christen it the "HSP-Maxx", just don't tell Traxxas
I'm starting to really love these chunky chevron tires, they make it look and drive like a monster truck.

Excuse the garbage, that's city parks for you...

It plows through deep grass with ease, I had to go easy on the throttle to keep from flipping it. I clocked it at 24mph on the pavement, it's geared very low with a 13T pinion & HSP's multi-stage reduction gearbox which is equivalent to a 73T spur. The biggest challenge to recording it is how quickly it becomes a speck in the distance.

I need to adjust the servo saver, that's why it's taking such wide turns... It's kind of a garbage design, it undoes itself from the motion of the steering rack; you have to aggressively threadlocker it in place to have any kind of steering authority:

I think I may have blown the rear bearing today, after the last backflip the engine started sounding like a rock tumbler...

Coincidentially, I just blew the rear bearing on my yet-to-be-posted SH.12-based Flying Fish, potentially also with a hard jolt to the engine during a flip... At least it's a good excuse to put a ceramic bearing in the TRX.

 

[gandalfnz]

Hi

It runs so well! Well done mate!
Just idles a tad high, but as said, I myself cannot get it much lower than that, it seems to be the feature of 3.3, even 11k does not help there.
In fact the ONLY way to make 3.3 idle well is to make the LSN too rich, but then take off is affected.

I have never had an issue with the servo saver, but mine are ALU, maybe that's why?
I have also taken your advice and geared my boys HSP monster truck to 13T, and it rips, they trash it almost daily and that VX18 just keep chugging.

I read somewhere that 3.3's have poop bearings, but personally have not experienced such issue.
Bit of a crap job getting that one out, heating the crank and knocking it out.
I would have thought that if it was the rear bearing, your engine would have been toast!

 

[tudordewolf]

Hi

It runs so well! Well done mate!
Just idles a tad high, but as said, I myself cannot get it much lower than that, it seems to be the feature of 3.3, even 11k does not help there.
In fact the ONLY way to make 3.3 idle well is to make the LSN too rich, but then take off is affected.

I have never had an issue with the servo saver, but mine are ALU, maybe that's why?
I have also taken your advice and geared my boys HSP monster truck to 13T, and it rips, they trash it almost daily and that VX18 just keep chugging.

I read somewhere that 3.3's have poop bearings, but personally have not experienced such issue.
Bit of a crap job getting that one out, heating the crank and knocking it out.
I would have thought that if it was the rear bearing, your engine would have been toast!

Thanks!

In the interest of getting this one out on the field, I skipped my usual round of upgrades, basically just threw the motor in the roller. Still have to do the diff cases, wheel bearings, steering rack, etc. Upgrading to aluminum will probably help with the servo saver issue.

I'm only guessing that it's the bearing based on sound and the 3.3's notoriety for breaking them, like you mention. With everything else stopped and just the engine idling, it had a very coarse crackle on top of the usual sound. I was running 30% nitro, which may have contributed.

I'll have to investigate and follow up, I'll try not to take a year this time.

 

[gandalfnz]

Thanks!

In the interest of getting this one out on the field, I skipped my usual round of upgrades, basically just threw the motor in the roller. Still have to do the diff cases, wheel bearings, steering rack, etc. Upgrading to aluminum will probably help with the servo saver issue.

I'm only guessing that it's the bearing based on sound and the 3.3's notoriety for breaking them, like you mention. With everything else stopped and just the engine idling, it had a very coarse crackle on top of the usual sound. I was running 30% nitro, which may have contributed.

I'll have to investigate and follow up, I'll try not to take a year this time.

The beauty of nitro, 5 mins drive, 6 months repair.
Let me know which bearings you go for, always wanted a few spares. I think front and back are the same dimension wise, except back has no seals?

 

[tudordewolf]

The beauty of nitro, 5 mins drive, 6 months repair.
Let me know which bearings you go for, always wanted a few spares. I think front and back are the same dimension wise, except back has no seals?

I have a ceramic set from Boca Bearings, the back is 12x5x21, slightly larger than the front. I might only change the rear one, the front should be fine and is still practically new...

They recommend: "Whenever using a ceramic hybrid bearing in an RC Engine, we suggest leaving both seals on for the front bearing and one seal facing the inside of the motor on the rear bearing. This protects the RC engine from possible bearing failure."

 

[gandalfnz]

I have a ceramic set from Boca Bearings, the back is 12x5x21, slightly larger than the front. I might only change the rear one, the front should be fine and is still practically new...

They recommend: "Whenever using a ceramic hybrid bearing in an RC Engine, we suggest leaving both seals on for the front bearing and one seal facing the inside of the motor on the rear bearing. This protects the RC engine from possible bearing failure."

Again, I always wondering, stock traxxas bearings.

Front, does it only have seal in the front, or both sides?

I believe on rear bearing, there are no seals on either side?

 

[tudordewolf]

Again, I always wondering, stock traxxas bearings.

Front, does it only have seal in the front, or both sides?

I believe on rear bearing, there are no seals on either side?

Here's your answer - front seal only on the front bearing, no seals on the rear bearing.

To my shame, I discovered that I had let the crank rust to a nice dark, crusty patina, and had been running the engine that way. It was just about a year since I ran it, and probably didn't clean it out as well as I could have... Probably a factor in the bearing failure. It was indeed the rear bearing, intact but "coarse" in rotation.

A quick application of rust remover cleaned up the crank & starter shaft nicely, fortunately enough.

Happy discovery though, the Traxxas replacement throttle dust boot fits the OS 11k perfectly. The 11k's boot was already cracking around the base, no problem though since that's a wear part anywayand the Traxxas replacements are plentiful.

 

[gandalfnz]

Pretty sure this has to do with you not running the engine out of fuel, as you said before, you are worried it will go to lean.
Personally never had an issue. Let it run out of fuel, a few drops of ARO if store more than 6 months and you are good.

Its good that you managed to sort it out thought, now get filming some more.

11k carb dust boot erodes so quickly? Its the oil that gets to it, always wondered why they don't make them out of silicone rather than rubber, which always goes hard and cracks in the end.

 

[tudordewolf]

Pretty sure this has to do with you not running the engine out of fuel, as you said before, you are worried it will go to lean.
Personally never had an issue. Let it run out of fuel, a few drops of ARO if store more than 6 months and you are good.

Its good that you managed to sort it out thought, now get filming some more.

11k carb dust boot erodes so quickly? Its the oil that gets to it, always wondered why they don't make them out of silicone rather than rubber, which always goes hard and cracks in the end.

I agree, most likely leftover fuel.

I stop the engine before it's empty, and use a big syringe to drain the tank through the fuel line. (disconnecting it at the carb) Then, while it's still hot from being run, I start it until it doesn't crank itself over anymore, (on the first few tries it'll come to life for a few seconds), and then give it a few more cranks just to push air through the hot, de-fueled engine and purge any vapors.

The issue I ran into was that I was having so much trouble starting the TRX 3.3 before I put an 11k on it that I couldn't complete this process after my last run and just gave up and stuck it on the shelf for a year. Mea Culpa.

I also use a syringe to prime the engine for startup (disconnecting the line at the exhaust), which has the upside of checking that the fuel system is properly sealed. If it takes more than 2-3 cc's of air pushed into the tank to prime the engine, I know it's leaking and won't tune properly. I might make a vid about that, I haven't seen anyone else use that technique. Plain syringes, the kind that would take a twist-lock needle, have just the right diameter to fit our fuel lines.

I would've expected the 11k's boot to last longer, but there's no knowing how long ago it was manufactured, maybe it was already a few years old when I got it? What's odd is that it never touched fuel in that long sitting period. I installed it and then it sat for ~10 months, the 11k carburetor itself having never been exposed to fuel until last month. Maybe it just dried out?

I'm quite satisfied with the rust remover I used, it came in a tube and resembled sunscreen with a peachey tinge. I think your restoration threads have inspired me to believe in the save-ability of seemingly deteriorated parts.

 

[gandalfnz]

I agree, most likely leftover fuel.

I stop the engine before it's empty, and use a big syringe to drain the tank through the fuel line. (disconnecting it at the carb) Then, while it's still hot from being run, I start it until it doesn't crank itself over anymore, (on the first few tries it'll come to life for a few seconds), and then give it a few more cranks just to push air through the hot, de-fueled engine and purge any vapors.

The issue I ran into was that I was having so much trouble starting the TRX 3.3 before I put an 11k on it that I couldn't complete this process after my last run and just gave up and stuck it on the shelf for a year. Mea Culpa.

I also use a syringe to prime the engine for startup (disconnecting the line at the exhaust), which has the upside of checking that the fuel system is properly sealed. If it takes more than 2-3 cc's of air pushed into the tank to prime the engine, I know it's leaking and won't tune properly. I might make a vid about that, I haven't seen anyone else use that technique. Plain syringes, the kind that would take a twist-lock needle, have just the right diameter to fit our fuel lines.

I would've expected the 11k's boot to last longer, but there's no knowing how long ago it was manufactured, maybe it was already a few years old when I got it? What's odd is that it never touched fuel in that long sitting period. I installed it and then it sat for ~10 months, the 11k carburetor itself having never been exposed to fuel until last month. Maybe it just dried out?

I'm quite satisfied with the rust remover I used, it came in a tube and resembled sunscreen with a peachey tinge. I think your restoration threads have inspired me to believe in the save-ability of seemingly deteriorated parts.

Man, you made it a science to start and store the car. I just don't have the patience for such due diligence.
You having issues to start trx 3.3 is to do with a tune. Even though I trash Traxxas engines every now and then, due to poor carb quality, personally have never had a single issue with any of my 3.3's. They start easy and run well. I must have owned about 10 of them so far. The biggest secret to a Traxxas engine tune is a rich LSN in order to idle low.
That crankshaft looks really good, mine don't look that good after ultrasonic clean, but as long as they stay lubed it doesn't matter.
You sure are a perfectionist my friend!
Thank you for confirming the front and rear bearing seals.

 

[tudordewolf]

Man, you made it a science to start and store the car. I just don't have the patience for such due diligence.
You having issues to start trx 3.3 is to do with a tune. Even though I trash Traxxas engines every now and then, due to poor carb quality, personally have never had a single issue with any of my 3.3's. They start easy and run well. I must have owned about 10 of them so far. The biggest secret to a Traxxas engine tune is a rich LSN in order to idle low.
That crankshaft looks really good, mine don't look that good after ultrasonic clean, but as long as they stay lubed it doesn't matter.
You sure are a perfectionist my friend!
Thank you for confirming the front and rear bearing seals.

Thanks! I'm planning to have it back together and running tomorrow. I left both seals on the ceramic rear bearing, and kept the stock front bearing as it felt fine. They were the pressed-in metal type, so I doubt I could've removed them anyway. It slipped in very easily.

My elaborate shutdown is partially because enough of my outings still end in something breaking that doesn't disable the engine, but does require me to stop without driving any further. Thay way I can shut it down quickly regardless of remaining fuel level. My tendency to top up the tank anytime it gets near 50% contributes to this, too, I basically always have at least a half-tank to deal with when I (or the RC...) decide it's time to call it a day. On a good day where nothing breaks, I'll run it down to 1/4 and then shut it down.

On the plus side, the engines start up very easily after all that with no fuss - preheat, prime, 2-3 pulls and they're running, or practically as soon as the they hit the bump box.

 

[gandalfnz]

Thanks! I'm planning to have it back together and running tomorrow. I left both seals on the ceramic rear bearing, and kept the stock front bearing as it felt fine. They were the pressed-in metal type, so I doubt I could've removed them anyway. It slipped in very easily.

My elaborate shutdown is partially because enough of my outings still end in something breaking that doesn't disable the engine, but does require me to stop without driving any further. Thay way I can shut it down quickly regardless of remaining fuel level. My tendency to top up the tank anytime it gets near 50% contributes to this, too, I basically always have at least a half-tank to deal with when I (or the RC...) decide it's time to call it a day. On a good day where nothing breaks, I'll run it down to 1/4 and then shut it down.

On the plus side, the engines start up very easily after all that with no fuss - preheat, prime, 2-3 pulls and they're running, or practically as soon as the they hit the bump box.

You didn't have to heat up the crankcase to insert the bearing in?

Man I have been having this one issue with my FFish that followed me trough all my builds and I never managed to figure out what it is. Even with the old VX engine.

When the fuel tank gets about about 1/4 I start getting massive air pockets in the fuel line, in fact sometimes they are so big, that the car will just starve of fuel and shut off on me.
Fuel system is absolutely air tight, and this only happens after a WOT. If I hold the car in my hand, its fine, let it go and come back, there's air pockets.
I have just moved the fuel tank below the top plastic bracket that holds it, thinking its that, as I had it mounted on top. No difference.
Maybe the exhaust pipe is not providing enough pressure to the fuel tank once it gets near empty?
I don't know, but car sounds like the tune is off when this happens.