Pinion questions.

[JaiJai]

Good eve.

So I've been scratching my head about this.

Strictly speaking about bashing here..

Why is everyone so keen on going to higher geared pinion gears. I mean I understand it equates to more top end speed. And that's fun.
But lowering the gear, like from 16t to 14t is going to give a little more acceleration and kick, and wouldn't it be less stress and heat on the motor?

Just haven't really seen anyone speaking about this, always the opposite. For the off-road basher like me, speed isn't really a concern, but power, torque and acceleration, also not burning up the engine.. seems good no?

Just confused if I'm missing some obvious downside to this?

And I get it's completely personal preference and style, not saying one is better that the other. Just honestly not sure if my plan to put a lower geared pinion in my rig is going to help or hinder..

Much love to those who share knowledge and experience! Community is power!

 

[Chubaka]

Welcome to the site. Back in the day my stampede topped out around 45. I could yank tge front end and walk it 1/4 to half a mile at speed i or from a dead stop. I have it between 50-55mph now because of a place I run it at.

My crawlers i gear up just so I can do donuts or sling mud. My tmaxx, nitro stampede, jato, and nitro sport are all stock. My f450 i made top out at 15 to 20. My trx minis are stock but tgat big block makes em boogie.

My first 3 vxls were stock mostly but they served in hell.

 

[JaiJai]

I appreciate the welcome, and the reply. Thank you.

Wondering about that lower pinion though.. any downside at all beside top end speed?

 

[Tunedfrog]

Welcome in @JaiJai , higher pinion will definitely bring on the heat in the electronics.
For the most part the guys that run bigger gears are into the speeds so most of them
use a thermo-heat gun and keep a close eye on it.
I prefer smaller gears because I'm not really into the speed side of RC.

 

[RustyUs]

Sometimes a larger pinion gear is not used merely for top speed but used to smooth out the powerband of a motor... or engine. It all depends on the situation at hand and what sacrifices you're willing to make.

 

[tudordewolf]

Good eve.

So I've been scratching my head about this.

Strictly speaking about bashing here..

Why is everyone so keen on going to higher geared pinion gears. I mean I understand it equates to more top end speed. And that's fun.
But lowering the gear, like from 16t to 14t is going to give a little more acceleration and kick, and wouldn't it be less stress and heat on the motor?

Just haven't really seen anyone speaking about this, always the opposite. For the off-road basher like me, speed isn't really a concern, but power, torque and acceleration, also not burning up the engine.. seems good no?

Just confused if I'm missing some obvious downside to this?

And I get it's completely personal preference and style, not saying one is better that the other. Just honestly not sure if my plan to put a lower geared pinion in my rig is going to help or hinder..

Much love to those who share knowledge and experience! Community is power!

I think what you're describing depends on the setup in terms of available power and efficiency.

In an onroad, above a certain torque value, you'll get wheelspin, and in a truck you can flip it on its back doing a wheelie. Any lower a pinion than that won't provide any meaningful improvement.

As long as the motor isn't overloaded though, going to a higher gear *can* increase top speed without losing too much acceleration, though current draw increases proportionally.

Similar dynamics apply to kv - although a higher kv motor may seem like the obvious way to make something more powerful, it'll draw more current to produce the same torque- but a lower kv motor at a higher voltage will be more efficient at the same power output, and therefore more powerful overall when you factor in thermal limits and available power.

Edit: basically it all depends on whether the motor is overloaded, under-loaded, or efficiently loaded, and both gearing and kv can play a factor in that.

 

[CertifiedMike]

I understand what you are saying about the lower gear. I think you can under gear a car as well as over gear it though.
I think you should be looking for a low side of stock ratios and control your wheel speed with the transmitter.
The eletronics won't mind at all if you only run at half throttle and if you ever feel the need for more speed, its a switch click away.

 

[JaiJai]

Nice, helpful replies, thanks.
I'll do some experimenting and see what's what, definitely ok with the stock setup, but will try going from the stock 16t, to 15t or 14t and see how it goes. Also limiting the throttle on the transmitter, I generally have it limited to 90% anyway.

Mostly want to run a little cooler, and longer. I am also getting a whole new motor and esc, so plenty to mess around with and figure out.

Funny how a < $500 toy can so quickly turn into an endless pit of money and time, enjoyably so.. in fact, at this point driving it is almost secondary to just modifying and tinkering.

 

[CertifiedMike]

Nice, helpful replies, thanks.
I'll do some experimenting and see what's what, definitely ok with the stock setup, but will try going from the stock 16t, to 15t or 14t and see how it goes. Also limiting the throttle on the transmitter, I generally have it limited to 90% anyway.

Mostly want to run a little cooler, and longer. I am also getting a whole new motor and esc, so plenty to mess around with and figure out.

Funny how a < $500 toy can so quickly turn into an endless pit of money and time, enjoyably so.. in fact, at this point driving it is almost secondary to just modifying and tinkering.

Bigger battery, higher mah for more run time.
$500...
Soooooooooo long ago.
I enjoy building and tinkering every bit as much as driving.
So much that I'm building a few different versions of the same car right now!
Theres so many ways to go, so much to do and enjoy in this hobby! It can be expensive but it doesn't have to be crazy. For me, the fun is worth the $$$!

 

[JaiJai]

Couldn't agree more.

Interesting thing with runtime..
I've only been using the same batteries. Ovonic 4s 6000mah 140c.
With 120a (stock esc) was getting around 40 min runtime, really good!
Then with 150a esc (same settings applied) runtime dropped by half... Half!

Now, just ran stock esc again (120a) now with a bec installed and few new bits and pieces, getting around 35min average runtime. And running pretty hot, hotter than I would like.

Seems kind of all over the place, but 30-40 min runtime is great, if I can keep that up I'll be happy! Obviously conditions and driving style play a huge roll in all that.. and every run is different, especially here at the moment, some grass, mud, nice dusty sand, little asphalt, beach dunes.. very different results and times on each.

Also maybe not the best batteries, I have 3 of them, 1 definitely seems to run longer.. I'm not sure, they seem like pretty good quality, might be mor about age and storage than anything else.

Anyways, if there was nothing to tinker with and mod/repair, no mysterious challenges to solve, I probably wouldn't even be into RC...

 

[CertifiedMike]

Couldn't agree more.

Interesting thing with runtime..
I've only been using the same batteries. Ovonic 4s 6000mah 140c.
With 120a (stock esc) was getting around 40 min runtime, really good!
Then with 150a esc (same settings applied) runtime dropped by half... Half!

Now, just ran stock esc again (120a) now with a bec installed and few new bits and pieces, getting around 35min average runtime. And running pretty hot, hotter than I would like.

Seems kind of all over the place, but 30-40 min runtime is great, if I can keep that up I'll be happy! Obviously conditions and driving style play a huge roll in all that.. and every run is different, especially here at the moment, some grass, mud, nice dusty sand, little asphalt, beach dunes.. very different results and times on each.

Also maybe not the best batteries, I have 3 of them, 1 definitely seems to run longer.. I'm not sure, they seem like pretty good quality, might be mor about age and storage than anything else.

Anyways, if there was nothing to tinker with and mod/repair, no mysterious challenges to solve, I probably wouldn't even be into RC...

You may be onto something with the batteries... what charger are you using?
I am still learning about lipos... a LOT to learn still!
I know some batteries perform better than others based in the internal resistance and if your charger balances the cells.
Maybe something is wrong with the esc?
The motor dictates the current draw (more or less) so thats weird I think.
Theres always something to work out on an rc.

 

[JaiJai]

Ovonic charger too. X1 200w. Balances too. Think it's a good one, was on special.. good reviews... Who knows really.

It is odd, the esc runtime, it's a new esc from jenny's. I updated it, did all the settings.. thought it would be a nice little upgrade, but not so.. also was cogging and stuttering pretty bad, probably more than double what the 120a stock esc would do (which isn't much) Expensive paperweight..

I'll revisit it at some point.

Some things just don't make a lot of sense, and so many variables.
Not a problem, except for the price and time waiting for the mail to arrive!

Still, I have a damn fine Mojave 4s emerging from all the chaos and mistakes along the way.

I would say the number one "mistake" might be going to fast with the upgrades.. ends up wasting money and losing the stock basepoint to reference.
Eg: Easy to turn a Mojave 4s into what is basically a kraton, easy to loose the character and unique ride style by jumping into other people's recommendations and experiences. Too much, too soon.
But again, isn't really a problem, and have yet to do anything that can't be undone. (Except some guilty compulsive late night purchases...)

 

[CertifiedMike]

Ovonic charger too. X1 200w. Balances too. Think it's a good one, was on special.. good reviews... Who knows really.

It is odd, the esc runtime, it's a new esc from jenny's. I updated it, did all the settings.. thought it would be a nice little upgrade, but not so.. also was cogging and stuttering pretty bad, probably more than double what the 120a stock esc would do (which isn't much) Expensive paperweight..

I'll revisit it at some point.

Some things just don't make a lot of sense, and so many variables.
Not a problem, except for the price and time waiting for the mail to arrive!

Still, I have a damn fine Mojave 4s emerging from all the chaos and mistakes along the way.

I would say the number one "mistake" might be going to fast with the upgrades.. ends up wasting money and losing the stock basepoint to reference.
Eg: Easy to turn a Mojave 4s into what is basically a kraton, easy to loose the character and unique ride style by jumping into other people's recommendations and experiences. Too much, too soon.
But again, isn't really a problem, and have yet to do anything that can't be undone. (Except some guilty compulsive late night purchases...)

Hyper-hop-ups! I am sort of going thru similar but I'm making some progress too.
I am spending a lot of time and money figuring out what does or doesn't work.
I know the cars very well but a re-release and new technology that I not familiar with sets a steep learning curve!
I'm having a blast with the build except for the price tag!
I'm finding ways to save $ now so thats always nice too.

 

[Greywolf74]

Why is everyone so keen on going to higher geared pinion gears. I mean I understand it equates to more top end speed. And that's fun.
But lowering the gear, like from 16t to 14t is going to give a little more acceleration and kick, and wouldn't it be less stress and heat on the motor?

Just haven't really seen anyone speaking about this, always the opposite. For the off-road basher like me, speed isn't really a concern, but power, torque and acceleration, also not burning up the engine.. seems good no?

Just confused if I'm missing some obvious downside to this?

There is no real downside to running smaller pinion except for loss of top speed. You basically nailed it on the head, Its torque vs top speed and its mostly personal preference.

Ovonic charger too. X1 200w. Balances too. Think it's a good one, was on special.. good reviews... Who knows really.

For LiPo chargers Id recommend the HOTA D6 Pro for starters.

For teh best LiPos, Id look at this thread HERE.

 

[olds97_lss]

Ovonic charger too. X1 200w. Balances too. Think it's a good one, was on special.. good reviews... Who knows really.

It is odd, the esc runtime, it's a new esc from jenny's. I updated it, did all the settings.. thought it would be a nice little upgrade, but not so.. also was cogging and stuttering pretty bad, probably more than double what the 120a stock esc would do (which isn't much) Expensive paperweight..

I'll revisit it at some point.

Some things just don't make a lot of sense, and so many variables.
Not a problem, except for the price and time waiting for the mail to arrive!

Still, I have a damn fine Mojave 4s emerging from all the chaos and mistakes along the way.

I would say the number one "mistake" might be going to fast with the upgrades.. ends up wasting money and losing the stock basepoint to reference.
Eg: Easy to turn a Mojave 4s into what is basically a kraton, easy to loose the character and unique ride style by jumping into other people's recommendations and experiences. Too much, too soon.
But again, isn't really a problem, and have yet to do anything that can't be undone. (Except some guilty compulsive late night purchases...)

Could be the larger esc doesn't like the higher kv of the smaller motor your driving. A 6S/150A esc tends to pair with 4074-4274 sized motors that are 1800-2400kv. A 4S/120A esc tends to be paired with a 3660-3670 sized 2400-3000 kv motor.

The lowest/highest kv motor I ran with a max6v3 was 5687/1100kv-4074/2050kv. It wouldn't push the 5687 sized motor very well, but did ok with 4985-1650kv, 4092-1650kv and 4074-2050kv.

My old blx185, I only ever ran a 4074-2050kv with it.

With my max10sct/120A 2S-4S esc, I went from a 3660/3200kv, 3665/3100kv, but never ran anything else with that to see what it would do.

 

[JaiJai]

Interesting. I didn't realise that could be the case.
I have been considering getting the castle 1515 2200kv, and monster x8s sensored esc.. so is that a bad idea? And the monster X (6s) which is often paired with that motor, could work better? Hmmm..

Thanks for that comment!

 

[JaiJai]

Seems some extra headroom with the esc would be a good idea. And allow potential expansion in th future.
Sensored probably helps too.

Picked up some other threads and seems to be a common thing to go for an overpowered esc.

But, stands to reason, the 150a did not perform well in my setup... Maybe I need to try it with the bigger motor it came with, that would give some answers.. and probably more questions..

 

[Greywolf74]

Interesting. I didn't realise that could be the case.
I have been considering getting the castle 1515 2200kv, and monster x8s sensored esc.. so is that a bad idea? And the monster X (6s) which is often paired with that motor, could work better? Hmmm..

Thanks for that comment!

The Castle 1515 is a beast of a motor. Its one of my favorite basher motors.

 

[JaiJai]

The Castle 1515 is a beast of a motor. Its one of my favorite basher motors.

Only heard good things, would it handle 6s? I don't have any 6s packs... Yet.. but I would be interested in trying it out. Thinking of going 5s, just the whole lvc thing is a little annoying.

 

[Greywolf74]

Only heard good things, would it handle 6s? I don't have any 6s packs... Yet.. but I would be interested in trying it out.

Yes, it can handle 6S. Just watch your gearing.

Thinking of going 5s, just the whole lvc thing is a little annoying.

How old are your LiPos?