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Brushless motor timing and motor comparison question

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gpklos

RC Newbie
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I’m relatively new when it comes to understanding how brushless motors work. It seems all the fast guys say you need to find the sweet spot of a brushless motor in reference with the timing of the motor. This has nothing to do with the ESC timing in general. they say set the timing of a motor so when you are at full throttle, the amp draw is around 6 A. I have no idea if that is true or not. so if I have two identical motors and I set the timing the same on the end bell on each of them. How can I tell which motor is better? Also, this is for RC racing on carpet with buggies or stadium trucks so acceleration and top speed are important. Any suggestions as to how to determine the better motor without putting it in the car and running it?
The other thing I was told is the better motor will draw more amps at a given throttle. For example, if I am at full throttle with one motor and it draws 5 A and then I am at fourth throttle with another motor and that draws 6 A then it means the motor that draw 6 A is better and probably more powerful??
Maybe I am completely misunderstanding things.
Any help would be appreciated thanks
 
without a motor dyno there's no way to find out.
get ready for controversy.
that said, personally i think outside of professional racing (ie. factory and high ranking sponsored drivers), tuned motors are nothing but hokum. 99% of us won't be noticeably faster with a "perfectly tuned" motor. its no doubt better to work on your driving and chassis set up than worrying about motor tuning (unless it's just way off)
 
Suburban_Hooligan said:
without a motor dyno there's no way to find out.
get ready for controversy.
that said, personally i think outside of professional racing (ie. factory and high ranking sponsored drivers), tuned motors are nothing but hokum. 99% of us won't be noticeably faster with a "perfectly tuned" motor. its no doubt better to work on your driving and chassis set up than worrying about motor tuning (unless it's just way off)
Click to expand...
It is just something I want to understand too.
 

Check out this guys videos. He is a member here who tests and tunes motors.
If you follow all the Trinity Double Down vids, you'll have your answers.

@WutUp Clegg is a pretty nice guy. If you catch him, he will blow your mind with brushless knowledge. 🤯😎👍
 
This is in the wrong subforum.. Should be under “Electronics”…

An internal combustion engine is a motor, but a DC electric motor is not an engine.. 😉

1764215335567.gif
 
Littlemotor said:
This is in the wrong subforum.. Should be under “Electronics”…

An internal combustion engine is a motor, but a DC electric motor is not an engine.. 😉

View attachment 257443
Click to expand...
technically brushless motors are AC, powered by a DC power supply (battery). but who's nitpicking?
 
gpklos said:
I’m relatively new when it comes to understanding how brushless motors work. It seems all the fast guys say you need to find the sweet spot of a brushless motor in reference with the timing of the motor. This has nothing to do with the ESC timing in general. they say set the timing of a motor so when you are at full throttle, the amp draw is around 6 A. I have no idea if that is true or not. so if I have two identical motors and I set the timing the same on the end bell on each of them. How can I tell which motor is better? Also, this is for RC racing on carpet with buggies or stadium trucks so acceleration and top speed are important. Any suggestions as to how to determine the better motor without putting it in the car and running it?
The other thing I was told is the better motor will draw more amps at a given throttle. For example, if I am at full throttle with one motor and it draws 5 A and then I am at fourth throttle with another motor and that draws 6 A then it means the motor that draw 6 A is better and probably more powerful??
Maybe I am completely misunderstanding things.
Any help would be appreciated thanks
Click to expand...
Where to start!
The amperage does mean speed, but not in the way you might think. If you have two motors spinning at the same RPM but at different amps, the lesser amperage will usually be a faster motor. First off, they need to be tested while under a load and not just free spinning. The motor with less amps means you can add another tooth to the pinion. This will end up providing more speed. Also, you will need to check the temperature of the motor. Some motors will run hot, so gearing up will not be an option.

You can check out some of my videos where I break down some of the most popular motors, and some not so popular. I also go over might be best for different types of racing.

www.youtube.com/@wutupclegg6618
 
I did watch some of your videos from the recommendations from one of the replies above. So it does sound like in general a good starting point is to set the timing of the motor to draw between 5-6 Amps. But that is only a general guide. I saw one video where a guy says you really need to see the Amps of each of the three poles and that is what really should be at 6 Amps. Maybe I’m repeating that wrong. I only have the Sky Rc analyzer so I can’t check those poles. I wouldn’t know how to change the amperage on the poles. The only thing it seems I could do is add/remove shims to do any tuning. Again I’m new to this.
 
WutUp Clegg said:
Where to start!
The amperage does mean speed, but not in the way you might think. If you have two motors spinning at the same RPM but at different amps, the lesser amperage will usually be a faster motor. First off, they need to be tested while under a load and not just free spinning. The motor with less amps means you can add another tooth to the pinion. This will end up providing more speed. Also, you will need to check the temperature of the motor. Some motors will run hot, so gearing up will not be an option.

You can check out some of my videos where I break down some of the most popular motors, and some not so popular. I also go over might be best for different types of racing.

www.youtube.com/@wutupclegg6618
Click to expand...
This forum is so awesome. So much knowledge in one place
 
Actually, I do have a question. How do you know once you shim the motor that it did something good? For example, say you shim it is there some thing to test on the motor analyzer that will tell you what you did was good or bad? Thanks!
 
gpklos said:
I did watch some of your videos from the recommendations from one of the replies above. So it does sound like in general a good starting point is to set the timing of the motor to draw between 5-6 Amps. But that is only a general guide. I saw one video where a guy says you really need to see the Amps of each of the three poles and that is what really should be at 6 Amps. Maybe I’m repeating that wrong. I only have the Sky Rc analyzer so I can’t check those poles. I wouldn’t know how to change the amperage on the poles. The only thing it seems I could do is add/remove shims to do any tuning. Again I’m new to this.
Click to expand...
Don't worry about the voltage at the poles. 5 to 6 amps is common without a load. However, between 4.5 and 5 amps is proving to be a little better. This is where a Load Master comes in handy. I'll be posting another video soon on tuning a motor while under a load.
 
WutUp Clegg said:
He is also a very sexy man.
Click to expand...
I knew I left out something! 🤷‍♀️😁😎
gpklos said:
Actually, I do have a question. How do you know once you shim the motor that it did something good? For example, say you shim it is there some thing to test on the motor analyzer that will tell you what you did was good or bad? Thanks!
Click to expand...
I'm glad you're finding answers! 👍
 
gpklos said:
Actually, I do have a question. How do you know once you shim the motor that it did something good? For example, say you shim it is there some thing to test on the motor analyzer that will tell you what you did was good or bad? Thanks!
Click to expand...
To be honest, shimming does very little. You will not notice a difference. To be completely honest, the only thing I noticed is the motor became quieter because there was no more rotor movement.
 
Ok so in general outside of finding The best timing of the motor there isn’t a whole lot you can do with it. Unless you get into replacing the rotor and messing with the sensor board.
 
Pretty much. You can gain 100 to 200 RPMs by spending another $60 on ceramic bearings, titanium screws, and shimming. To help prolong the life of the motor, I would shim it to cut down on vibration.
 

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