Nitro Fuel for KE21SP engine?

[Hojaz]

So, i just got my Kyosho inferno neo 3.0 and the closest shop with fuel only has the Nitrolux Energi 2 Off road, 16% by weight and 12% volume percent. ( https://modelixracing.com/en/18393-nitrolux-energy2-off-road-16-by-weight-eu-no-licence-1-l.html ).

I've watched videos and done som reading and people talk about 20-30% nitro in this engine.
But from what i understand you can always go lower nitro without bigger issues but if you go too high you could get problems?
So my question is; Can i run my inferno on this 16% fuel without making any damage to it in the long run? I know you can't lean it out too much with less nitro and so on but i will not use it for racing, just bashing for fun.

Thx
Hojaz

 

[Deku]

from what i understand you could in theory do this.
However my knowledge tells me that you need to run the engine with the thinnest head shim (just 1) or no head shim at all since the engine is probably set up and built for higher % nitro.
this would also mean that if the engine has run on higher % before, it needs a new "break in"

Lower nitro % fuel means it needs more compression to ignite and convert that explosion/combustion into power.

Try a google search on head shimming and nitro % fuel. you'd be surprised.
I'm not really keen myself on lowering nitro % for an engine that was meant to run higher %.

 

[AnimePerson3.5]

So, i just got my Kyosho inferno neo 3.0 and the closest shop with fuel only has the Nitrolux Energi 2 Off road, 16% by weight and 12% volume percent. ( https://modelixracing.com/en/18393-nitrolux-energy2-off-road-16-by-weight-eu-no-licence-1-l.html ).

I've watched videos and done som reading and people talk about 20-30% nitro in this engine.
But from what i understand you can always go lower nitro without bigger issues but if you go too high you could get problems?
So my question is; Can i run my inferno on this 16% fuel without making any damage to it in the long run? I know you can't lean it out too much with less nitro and so on but i will not use it for racing, just bashing for fun.

Thx
Hojaz

Hello from my understanding you can run any fuel in your nitros and it will run it just depends on the Tuning you can even run airplane nitro fuel it’s not recommended but it will do also from what I’ve heard 16% is useually on road I am pretty sure In most hpi instructions it says to run 16% nitro to 25% nitro another thing to go over is how much Oil content is in the fuel just try not to pass 13 or 14% in oil content

 

[Deku]

Hello from my understanding you can run any fuel in your nitros and it will run it just depends on the Tuning you can even run airplane nitro fuel it’s not recommended but it will do also from what I’ve heard 16% is useually on road I am pretty sure In most hpi instructions it says to run 16% nitro to 25% nitro another thing to go over is how much Oil content is in the fuel just try not to pass 13 or 14% in oil content

Hm yes i did some deeper digging turns out it doesn't matter what % of nitro you use. the head shims stay the same apparently, but you would have to compensate for lack of nitro % by tuning richer like you said before and use a medium-hot to hot glow plug to burn that extra fuel..
The only thing that bothers me is, how high is the oil content? if you tune it richer doesn't that mean due to the extra oil it's performance will lack..

 

[AnimePerson3.5]

Hm yes i did some deeper digging turns out it doesn't matter what % of nitro you use. the head shims stay the same apparently, but you would have to compensate for lack of nitro % by tuning richer like you said before and use a medium-hot to hot glow plug to burn that extra fuel..
The only thing that bothers me is, how high is the oil content? if you tune it richer doesn't that mean due to the extra oil it's performance will lack..

Well it will lack some performance Bc your tuning richer if you stay under 15% oil I think you should be fine

 

[STONER RC]

So, i just got my Kyosho inferno neo 3.0 and the closest shop with fuel only has the Nitrolux Energi 2 Off road, 16% by weight and 12% volume percent. ( https://modelixracing.com/en/18393-nitrolux-energy2-off-road-16-by-weight-eu-no-licence-1-l.html ).

I've watched videos and done som reading and people talk about 20-30% nitro in this engine.
But from what i understand you can always go lower nitro without bigger issues but if you go too high you could get problems?
So my question is; Can i run my inferno on this 16% fuel without making any damage to it in the long run? I know you can't lean it out too much with less nitro and so on but i will not use it for racing, just bashing for fun.

Thx
Hojaz

The engine won't run right. It doesn't matter if racing or bashing.. the engines designed to run on no less then 20%. And it's tuned that way from factory. So you will need to shim the cooling head and get different glow plugs. Or your going to run hot really hot
For bashing or any nitro the higher the oil the harder it is to tune. You want low oil high nitro.. I run 30% nitro and 10% oil

 

[Hojaz]

from what i understand you could in theory do this.
However my knowledge tells me that you need to run the engine with the thinnest head shim (just 1) or no head shim at all since the engine is probably set up and built for higher % nitro.
this would also mean that if the engine has run on higher % before, it needs a new "break in"

Lower nitro % fuel means it needs more compression to ignite and convert that explosion/combustion into power.

Try a google search on head shimming and nitro % fuel. you'd be surprised.
I'm not really keen myself on lowering nitro % for an engine that was meant to run higher %.

The engine is new and I'm waiting for some higher outside temps before braking it in, but if i brake it in with the 16% fuel i would probobly stick with that if its ok and works..

Hello from my understanding you can run any fuel in your nitros and it will run it just depends on the Tuning you can even run airplane nitro fuel it’s not recommended but it will do also from what I’ve heard 16% is useually on road I am pretty sure In most hpi instructions it says to run 16% nitro to 25% nitro another thing to go over is how much Oil content is in the fuel just try not to pass 13 or 14% in oil content

I asked the shop owner were i bought the car and he also said that you can run it on lower nitro and that i wouldnt notice any bigger difference if I'm not going to race it seriously on track.. and he has been racing nitro for 20 years.
So this is verry confusing for me as a newbie, everybody says different things..

I will look up the oil % in the nitrolux fuel, I've been trying to find it on multiple sites without any luck... looks like they wanna keep that a secret lol.

The engine won't run right. It doesn't matter if racing or bashing.. the engines designed to run on no less then 20%. And it's tuned that way from factory. So you will need to shim the cooling head and get different glow plugs. Or your going to run hot really hot
For bashing or any nitro the higher the oil the harder it is to tune. You want low oil high nitro.. I run 30% nitro and 10% oil

I've read some of the shims thing and it looks like there are pretty much the same different answers there as it comes to the nitro % you should run... but i do understand that a little bit higher % would make it go better. Thats pretty much a fact i guess.
The problem here in Eu is that we need to apply for some sort of license to buy higher nitro % than 16 by weight. And this makes it harder for us without it too find fuel we can run.
I bought the car in trust of the shop owner that it would run perfectly even with 16, and he didnt mention anything about glowplug change.
But after some reading this gets really confusing.

 

[Deku]

The engine is new and I'm waiting for some higher outside temps before braking it in, but if i brake it in with the 16% fuel i would probobly stick with that if its ok and works..

I asked the shop owner were i bought the car and he also said that you can run it on lower nitro and that i wouldnt notice any bigger difference if I'm not going to race it seriously on track.. and he has been racing nitro for 20 years.
So this is verry confusing for me as a newbie, everybody says different things..

I will look up the oil % in the nitrolux fuel, I've been trying to find it on multiple sites without any luck... looks like they wanna keep that a secret lol.

I've read some of the shims thing and it looks like there are pretty much the same different answers there as it comes to the nitro % you should run... but i do understand that a little bit higher % would make it go better. Thats pretty much a fact i guess.
The problem here in Eu is that we need to apply for some sort of license to buy higher nitro % than 16 by weight. And this makes it harder for us without it too find fuel we can run.
I bought the car in trust of the shop owner that it would run perfectly even with 16, and he didnt mention anything about glowplug change.
But after some reading this gets really confusing.

I know its confusing what everyone says about lower nitro content and oil content and what not.as a rule of thumb i always try to stick to no less then 9% oil and no higher then 14% oil as higher oil content like @STONER RC mentioned, makes it harder to tune and keep a tune.
at the end of the day these engines do need oil to lubricate, but to run it at full potential it has to be an exact amount.

another rule of thumb i like to stick with is higher nitro content in the fuel means a bigger shim stack.
the Nitromethane that is mixed in with the fuel (also called Nitro) contains a high % of oxygen. this is needed to help with the combustion of the fuel.
if say, you go from 20% to 35% nitro as an example, you need to increase the shim stack for the combustion cycle to work properly and not explode the engine due to too much compression.
This means that less nitromethane needs more compression thus lowering the cooling head by removing a shim or 2.
This is done to maintain performance and keep the engine healthy. on top of that you do need a hotter glow plug then what the manufacturer recommends for your engine due to the lower nitromethane content in the fuel and the higher compression that is needed to combust it.

again i know this seems all very confusing.. and i feel you.
i refuse to go down to 16% nitro so i now have a license to buy 20% and up.
so let me ask you this very last thing:
have you tried to get a license?
i live in the EU as well.. it did take a very long time to get the license because its paper work. so bare in mind that it will take some time lol

EDIT:
Do you have any nitro fuel at hand that is higher in Nitromethane % ?? like 20% or higher?
if so, run it in with that fuel... by the time you get a license you are all set lol

if not, and if you don't want to wait to run in the engine by all means run it on 16.
if you ever go higher remember that the engine needs to be run in AGAIN.
this is also true for engines that go from 20-30% to 16. they need to be run in again

 

[Hojaz]

I know its confusing what everyone says about lower nitro content and oil content and what not.as a rule of thumb i always try to stick to no less then 9% oil and no higher then 14% oil as higher oil content like @STONER RC mentioned, makes it harder to tune and keep a tune.
at the end of the day these engines do need oil to lubricate, but to run it at full potential it has to be an exact amount.

another rule of thumb i like to stick with is higher nitro content in the fuel means a bigger shim stack.
the Nitromethane that is mixed in with the fuel (also called Nitro) contains a high % of oxygen. this is needed to help with the combustion of the fuel.
if say, you go from 20% to 35% nitro as an example, you need to increase the shim stack for the combustion cycle to work properly and not explode the engine due to too much compression.
This means that less nitromethane needs more compression thus lowering the cooling head by removing a shim or 2.
This is done to maintain performance and keep the engine healthy. on top of that you do need a hotter glow plug then what the manufacturer recommends for your engine due to the lower nitromethane content in the fuel and the higher compression that is needed to combust it.

again i know this seems all very confusing.. and i feel you.
i refuse to go down to 16% nitro so i now have a license to buy 20% and up.
so let me ask you this very last thing:
have you tried to get a license?
i live in the EU as well.. it did take a very long time to get the license because its paper work. so bare in mind that it will take some time lol

EDIT:
Do you have any nitro fuel at hand that is higher in Nitromethane % ?? like 20% or higher?
if so, run it in with that fuel... by the time you get a license you are all set lol

if not, and if you don't want to wait to run in the engine by all means run it on 16.
if you ever go higher remember that the engine needs to be run in AGAIN.
this is also true for engines that go from 20-30% to 16. they need to be run in again

Thx for the info!

I havent tried to get a license but i think i might do that anyway.

Do you have to do like a second break in if you change fuel? Never heard that either, just that you have to retune your engine.
Learning is good!

 

[Deku]

Thx for the info!

I havent tried to get a license but i think i might do that anyway.

Do you have to do like a second break in if you change fuel? Never heard that either, just that you have to retune your engine.
Learning is good!

some say its a 2nd run in if you change fuel, i call it a 2nd run in, but its basically a quick run in..
just let it idle for like half a tank or full tank (your choice) and tank 2 will be half throttle maximum, tank 3 about 75% throttle - really warm it up by this time, tank 4 you can tune it however you like. thats my method at least..

 

[STONER RC]

Thx for the info!

I havent tried to get a license but i think i might do that anyway.

Do you have to do like a second break in if you change fuel? Never heard that either, just that you have to retune your engine.
Learning is good!

No you don't have to do a break in. But when I went from 20% to 30% I run my trucks tank dry. Then started it a few times with what was left in the lines and carb. Then took it slow for the first tank or two. Because you will need to re tune the engine. Question have you done a break in. If so with what fuel.. I didn't know it's that hard to get nitro over the pond in the EU... interesting crazy you need a licenses to buy fuel.. and sorry to tell you NOT one person at a hobby shop knows what they are talking about.. they just sell them as them come.. for the most part they are idiots... you are going to need a #3 plug or a hot plug.. I'm guessing your running stock medium plug. There's a lot to know when it comes to nitro.. air temp , humidity, elevation from sea level. Alot comes into play. Here's some articles to read hopefully they will help you understand it a little more bud....

https://www.eurorc.com/page/97/nitro-car-basics

https://www.rccaraction.com/fast-facts-nitro-fuel/

https://www.liveabout.com/can-nitro-fuel-damage-nitro-engine-2862991

some say its a 2nd run in if you change fuel, i call it a 2nd run in, but its basically a quick run in..
just let it idle for like half a tank or full tank (your choice) and tank 2 will be half throttle maximum, tank 3 about 75% throttle - really warm it up by this time, tank 4 you can tune it however you like. thats my method at least..

That's interesting never have I ever done any of that.. been running nitro since 99, 2000. But also been running same % for decades now...never had a issue you basically just have to re tune for the extra nitro methane

 

[cbaker65]

No you don't have to do a break in. But when I went from 20% to 30% I run my trucks tank dry. Then started it a few times with what was left in the lines and carb. Then took it slow for the first tank or two. Because you will need to re tune the engine. Question have you done a break in. If so with what fuel.. I didn't know it's that hard to get nitro over the pond in the EU... interesting crazy you need a licenses to buy fuel.. and sorry to tell you NOT one person at a hobby shop knows what they are talking about.. they just sell them as them come.. for the most part they are idiots... you are going to need a #3 plug or a hot plug.. I'm guessing your running stock medium plug. There's a lot to know when it comes to nitro.. air temp , humidity, elevation from sea level. Alot comes into play. Here's some articles to read hopefully they will help you understand it a little more bud....

https://www.eurorc.com/page/97/nitro-car-basics

https://www.rccaraction.com/fast-facts-nitro-fuel/

https://www.liveabout.com/can-nitro-fuel-damage-nitro-engine-2862991

That's interesting never have I ever done any of that.. been running nitro since 99, 2000. But also been running same % for decades now...never had a issue you basically just have to re tune for the extra nitro methane

Get-m bruh....

 

[Deku]

No you don't have to do a break in. But when I went from 20% to 30% I run my trucks tank dry. Then started it a few times with what was left in the lines and carb. Then took it slow for the first tank or two. Because you will need to re tune the engine. Question have you done a break in. If so with what fuel.. I didn't know it's that hard to get nitro over the pond in the EU... interesting crazy you need a licenses to buy fuel.. and sorry to tell you NOT one person at a hobby shop knows what they are talking about.. they just sell them as them come.. for the most part they are idiots... you are going to need a #3 plug or a hot plug.. I'm guessing your running stock medium plug. There's a lot to know when it comes to nitro.. air temp , humidity, elevation from sea level. Alot comes into play. Here's some articles to read hopefully they will help you understand it a little more bud....

https://www.eurorc.com/page/97/nitro-car-basics

https://www.rccaraction.com/fast-facts-nitro-fuel/

https://www.liveabout.com/can-nitro-fuel-damage-nitro-engine-2862991

That's interesting never have I ever done any of that.. been running nitro since 99, 2000. But also been running same % for decades now...never had a issue you basically just have to re tune for the extra nitro methane

i agree with your last sentence going about retuning and be done with it. and that is true.
i mentioned that i have my own method when changing nitro % and should indeed have included that you don't have to follow my way of doing things lol
on top of that, isn't it true that when you go from say 25% fuel to 16, you have to remove head shims to compensate for the lack of nitromethane in the fuel, the (maybe) extra oil depending on the fuel brand.. and change the glow plug to a hotter plug ..
interesting.

 

[cbaker65]

I use different fuels % over the years in my engines with out doing anything special but a little retune an they
still run!
It is other things that will get you like air leaks ,dried o-rings an bad tank pressure issues!..
High oil content fuel is good for break-ins ,nothing more!

 

[Deku]

hmm this is good but also strange information lol
as per this new and unimproved EU law that basically attacks this hobby for us..
all engines in the EU now come either with just 1 shim or none. and are factory "pre-tuned" or tested with 16%

imagine throwing 25% nitro in the tank with such an engine...

 

[cbaker65]

hmm this is good but also strange information lol
as per this new and unimproved EU law that basically attacks this hobby for us..
all engines in the EU now come either with just 1 shim or none. and are factory "pre-tuned" or tested with 16%

imagine throwing 25% nitro in the tank with such an engine...

Yea I know about the restrictions over across the pond ,its a shame ,they should at least allow the 20%!
Definitely would have to remove a shim!..

 

[Deku]

Yea I know about the restrictions over across the pond ,its a shame ,they should at least allow the 20%!
Definitely would have to remove a shim!..

Never mind i read your last post wrong and got confused
anyways,
at the end of the day @Hojaz is new to the nitro part of this hobby, and he wants to know whether to run on 16 and stay on 16, or get a license and go higher % ?

 

[cbaker65]

Hmm look i don't mean no disrespect or anything.
i read things, i see and hear things about nitro's and experience them myself.
so if you can explain why head shims don't matter at all, and the engine simply needs a retune upon nitro % change.. then please. by all means do it.
at the end of the day @Hojaz is new to the nitro part of this hobby, and he wants to know whether to run on 16 and stay on 16, or get a license and go higher %.

I guess you got me there ,I never ran any fuel less than 20% an even with that percentage I never had to remove a shim ,but
do know that removing head shim changes ignition timing & compression!..

 

[Hojaz]

No you don't have to do a break in. But when I went from 20% to 30% I run my trucks tank dry. Then started it a few times with what was left in the lines and carb. Then took it slow for the first tank or two. Because you will need to re tune the engine. Question have you done a break in. If so with what fuel.. I didn't know it's that hard to get nitro over the pond in the EU... interesting crazy you need a licenses to buy fuel.. and sorry to tell you NOT one person at a hobby shop knows what they are talking about.. they just sell them as them come.. for the most part they are idiots... you are going to need a #3 plug or a hot plug.. I'm guessing your running stock medium plug. There's a lot to know when it comes to nitro.. air temp , humidity, elevation from sea level. Alot comes into play. Here's some articles to read hopefully they will help you understand it a little more bud....

https://www.eurorc.com/page/97/nitro-car-basics

https://www.rccaraction.com/fast-facts-nitro-fuel/

https://www.liveabout.com/can-nitro-fuel-damage-nitro-engine-2862991

That's interesting never have I ever done any of that.. been running nitro since 99, 2000. But also been running same % for decades now...never had a issue you basically just have to re tune for the extra nitro methane

I havent done the break in yet, waiting for some higher temps outside. Freezin' cold atm.
Thanks for the pages with reading! I have done reading for months before and the only thing i was confused about was the fuel. Like i said before, everybody says different things about it.

Never mind i read your last post wrong and got confused
anyways,
at the end of the day @Hojaz is new to the nitro part of this hobby, and he wants to know whether to run on 16 and stay on 16, or get a license and go higher % ?

I have applied for a permission to get the higher % now... so just wish me luck and hopefully i will be driving with 20-25
What brands of fuel have you tried?? If i get my permission i will be able to find some more brands that aint to many hours away from home.

 

[Deku]

I have applied for a permission to get the higher % now... so just wish me luck and hopefully i will be driving with 20-25
What brands of fuel have you tried?? If i get my permission i will be able to find some more brands that aint to many hours away from home.

Me personally have used Team Corally, Merlin, VP, Carson.
i was about to order Bones Brew from over the pond, or at least i wanted to before this stupid EU law came into play since i heard great things about it.
Maybe there is a way to get Bones in my country, and i have to pick it up myself show my license and done?, i don't know yet.
anyways...
Out of the above VP and Bones (Bones was not tested by myself) is pretty much top fuel. Bones has i think 10% oil and VP 9%.
The next best fuel imo would be Merlin, then Corally.
and Carson.......
don't ever buy that crap. ruins your engine.