Getting started in the hobby! First planes, first impressions

[tudordewolf]

Swapped the Avistar to an Asp .52 four-stroke, love how it sounded and flew.

Took several attempts to get the offset throttle placement right, and I had to drill the engine mount, though the front 2 holes were perfectly spaced.

Didn't feel at all weaker than the .46AX, and it was running so well after just 1 tank that I flew it without issues. Started my P-51 build, going to rebuild the Sonic, and going to put the the .46AX in a 60" low-wing.

 

[tudordewolf]

@gandalfnz and with my constant effort to put an air filter on every one of my planes, the brodak filter perfectly fits the Asp .52, kind of hard to take a picture of:

 

[gandalfnz]

Swapped the Avistar to an Asp .52 four-stroke, love how it sounded and flew.

Took several attempts to get the offset throttle placement right, and I had to drill the engine mount, though the front 2 holes were perfectly spaced.

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Didn't feel at all weaker than the .46AX, and it was running so well after just 1 tank that I flew it without issues. Started my P-51 build, going to rebuild the Sonic, and going to put the the .46AX in a 60" low-wing.

Hi

Took me a few goes as well with the throttle linkage, it can be pain to have it moving smoothly and have it routed around the fuel tank bay.
I have one that I think has like 6-7 90 degree bends in it, in the end I figure out I could have just rotated the carb arm by 180.

I got three .61 and two .52 engines in the ASP variant.
Currently on final steps in restoring that vintage SIG 4 Star 40 with a .61. I see (stickers on a plane) that previos owner had a Saito .45 installed on it. Hoping that 61 will give it a nice boost in power.
Fuel tank install and static test run pending.

Congrats on your 4 Stroke maiden, lets hope mine is just as successful.

@gandalfnz and with my constant effort to put an air filter on every one of my planes, the brodak filter perfectly fits the Asp .52, kind of hard to take a picture of:

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I haven't purchased these yet. Hopefully sometime soon.
I'd like to see what the verdict is after put a few more flights on that plane.

 

[Hobbydude2]

Got a few birds also...

 

[gandalfnz]

Got a few birds also...

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Nice planes. You seem to be experienced with flying them.

Is that Pitts in micro size?

 

[Hobbydude2]

Nice planes. You seem to be experienced with flying them.

Is that Pitts in micro size?

Its the 400 mm UMX pits arf. I think its a micro.

 

[tudordewolf]

Hi

Took me a few goes as well with the throttle linkage, it can be pain to have it moving smoothly and have it routed around the fuel tank bay.
I have one that I think has like 6-7 90 degree bends in it, in the end I figure out I could have just rotated the carb arm by 180.

I got three .61 and two .52 engines in the ASP variant.
Currently on final steps in restoring that vintage SIG 4 Star 40 with a .61. I see (stickers on a plane) that previos owner had a Saito .45 installed on it. Hoping that 61 will give it a nice boost in power.
Fuel tank install and static test run pending.

Congrats on your 4 Stroke maiden, lets hope mine is just as successful.



I haven't purchased these yet. Hopefully sometime soon.
I'd like to see what the verdict is after put a few more flights on that plane.

Got a couple flights on it, the Asp pulls it along nicely and keeps it cruising at just half throttle -

Didn't feel any less powerful than the .46AX, even though a .52FS should be a little less punchy according to the common knowledge. It may be better suited to the Avistar as a slightly slower flyer, I put an 11x8 prop on it.

 

[Hobbydude2]

Got a couple flights on it, the Asp pulls it along nicely and keeps it cruising at just half throttle -

Didn't feel any less powerful than the .46AX, even though a .52FS should be a little less punchy according to the common knowledge. It may be better suited to the Avistar as a slightly slower flyer, I put an 11x8 prop on it.

Runs smooth. Flys good.

 

[gandalfnz]

Runs smooth. Flys good.

Are those white trails in the sky left by you?

Love how there was a guy on the pitch, and you just told him get the heck out. Taking off!

.46AX 2T should have felt more grunty than this .52 4T. I am surprised by your finding.
Is that a new or second hand .52 4T?

Was that a dead stick landing, sounds like the motor stopped running?

I am still to maiden my first 4 Stroke. Been working on it for months. The only part left pending is removing the ailerons as they were installed too close to the trailing edge by the previous owner, so movement is very limited. I am installing pinned hinges instead of CA. I realized they move much more smoothly. One aileron done, the other is pending as I ran out of hinges.

Installing pinned hinges is a headache on its own. I wanted to CA them into place, but when I did them for the first time, CA leaked onto the metal pin and glued them firm! I then had to cut them out again, and learnt on the web to apply a bit of Vaseline over the hinge area, that way CA stays out and hinges are free to move after CA has dried.

 

[tudordewolf]

Are those white trails in the sky left by you?

Love how there was a guy on the pitch, and you just told him get the heck out. Taking off!

.46AX 2T should have felt more grunty than this .52 4T. I am surprised by your finding.
Is that a new or second hand .52 4T?

Was that a dead stick landing, sounds like the motor stopped running?

I am still to maiden my first 4 Stroke. Been working on it for months. The only part left pending is removing the ailerons as they were installed too close to the trailing edge by the previous owner, so movement is very limited. I am installing pinned hinges instead of CA. I realized they move much more smoothly. One aileron done, the other is pending as I ran out of hinges.

Installing pinned hinges is a headache on its own. I wanted to CA them into place, but when I did them for the first time, CA leaked onto the metal pin and glued them firm! I then had to cut them out again, and learnt on the web to apply a bit of Vaseline over the hinge area, that way CA stays out and hinges are free to move after CA has dried.

I killed the throttle on final approach because the idle was still a little high, and the Avistar "floats" in ground effect very easily. I did have a stall in the air and brought it in without any trouble, had it too lean and the exhaust had slightly discolored from its "brand new" silver. I used plumber's tape cut in half lengthwise fitting the exhaust and haven't had any oil leakage, went in smoothly with it despite the fine threads.

I could be wrong about the power, or it could be the fact that I flew at partial throttle with both engines 90% of the time, so I don't notice as much of a difference in max power as long as they have as much as I need.

All my observations are just my rough estimation - It didn't seem to take off or climb any more slowly, and when I did a pull-back test holding the tail at full throttle, it felt "just as strong", though that's hardly "data."

My tach is on the fritz so I couldn't verify RPM's, both of them are using props available in the prop calc, so it should be easy to compare theoretical power. The .46 AX-II did 11,900 RPM with an APC 11x6, which the calc estimates to ~3kg static thrust. I've got an 11x8 on the .52, which should do about 2.3kg at 10,000, if I can achieve that.

Maybe the .46 AX-II is more powerful but I just never used it to its full potential, it might've just been more than the Avistar needed. I'm going to put the AX in a 60" low-wing .46 sport plane, that might be better a better match for it.

Got a few birds also...

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Nice collection, I like the models you've got sprinkled around them like that Constellation. That's a very classic-looking nitro plane and engine, too.

Got both my nitros out at once for the first time:

Glamour shot of the 52FS:

 

[Hobbydude2]

More birdies.

 

[gandalfnz]

I killed the throttle on final approach because the idle was still a little high, and the Avistar "floats" in ground effect very easily. I did have a stall in the air and brought it in without any trouble, had it too lean and the exhaust had slightly discolored from its "brand new" silver. I used plumber's tape cut in half lengthwise fitting the exhaust and haven't had any oil leakage, went in smoothly with it despite the fine threads.

I could be wrong about the power, or it could be the fact that I flew at partial throttle with both engines 90% of the time, so I don't notice as much of a difference in max power as long as they have as much as I need.

All my observations are just my rough estimation - It didn't seem to take off or climb any more slowly, and when I did a pull-back test holding the tail at full throttle, it felt "just as strong", though that's hardly "data."

My tach is on the fritz so I couldn't verify RPM's, both of them are using props available in the prop calc, so it should be easy to compare theoretical power. The .46 AX-II did 11,900 RPM with an APC 11x6, which the calc estimates to ~3kg static thrust. I've got an 11x8 on the .52, which should do about 2.3kg at 10,000, if I can achieve that.

Maybe the .46 AX-II is more powerful but I just never used it to its full potential, it might've just been more than the Avistar needed. I'm going to put the AX in a 60" low-wing .46 sport plane, that might be better a better match for it.

You are very brave to cut off the throttle upon landing, where I think its very much needed.
Anything goes wrong and you slow down a bit much or not lining up correctly and there is no way of recovering.
It will just drop to the ground, granted it is a high wing, so it should float in, but you just never know.
Our landing strip is quite narrow compared to yours, maybe for the better because it really makes you have to line up that plane well.
Your landing/take off area is huge, which is also nice, more room for error.

When I tune my engines, I keep leaning till they reach top RPM by sound, I don't bother with a tach, I then richen a 2-3 clicks and leave it at that.
They will lean out a bit once in the air, so that should compensate for that. So far I haven't had a dead stick, or overheating issues.
4 Stroke engines are much harder to detect when they are at top RPM, which why many ppl use a tach, so far I have been tune practicing during bench runs, just to get to know the engine a bit better.

I am not sold on 4 strokes completely, I think I mentioned this before. They sound great and fuel consumption is suppose to be less, but that's about it. Simplicity of repair/maintenance of a 2 Stroke cannot be beaten. They just sound whiny compare to 4T.

 

[Hobbydude2]

You are very brave to cut off the throttle upon landing, where I think its very much needed.
Anything goes wrong and you slow down a bit much or not lining up correctly and there is no way of recovering.
It will just drop to the ground, granted it is a high wing, so it should float in, but you just never know.
Our landing strip is quite narrow compared to yours, maybe for the better because it really makes you have to line up that plane well.
Your landing/take off area is huge, which is also nice, more room for error.

When I tune my engines, I keep leaning till they reach top RPM by sound, I don't bother with a tach, I then richen a 2-3 clicks and leave it at that.
They will lean out a bit once in the air, so that should compensate for that. So far I haven't had a dead stick, or overheating issues.
4 Stroke engines are much harder to detect when they are at top RPM, which why many ppl use a tach, so far I have been tune practicing during bench runs, just to get to know the engine a bit better.

I am not sold on 4 strokes completely, I think I mentioned this before. They sound great and fuel consumption is suppose to be less, but that's about it. Simplicity of repair/maintenance of a 2 Stroke cannot be beaten. They just sound whiny compare to 4T.

2 strokes ya say, I have a nice 2 stroke 40:1 that I love to tool round on.

 

[tudordewolf]

You are very brave to cut off the throttle upon landing, where I think its very much needed.
Anything goes wrong and you slow down a bit much or not lining up correctly and there is no way of recovering.
It will just drop to the ground, granted it is a high wing, so it should float in, but you just never know.
Our landing strip is quite narrow compared to yours, maybe for the better because it really makes you have to line up that plane well.
Your landing/take off area is huge, which is also nice, more room for error.

When I tune my engines, I keep leaning till they reach top RPM by sound, I don't bother with a tach, I then richen a 2-3 clicks and leave it at that.
They will lean out a bit once in the air, so that should compensate for that. So far I haven't had a dead stick, or overheating issues.
4 Stroke engines are much harder to detect when they are at top RPM, which why many ppl use a tach, so far I have been tune practicing during bench runs, just to get to know the engine a bit better.

I am not sold on 4 strokes completely, I think I mentioned this before. They sound great and fuel consumption is suppose to be less, but that's about it. Simplicity of repair/maintenance of a 2 Stroke cannot be beaten. They just sound whiny compare to 4T.

I do appreciate that I've got a field that lets me land crosswise if I need to, that happened on the midair stall. Only downside is we're next to a small, real airfield and everyone that has planes in the air has to hit the deck when they come in low overhead.

I've started tuning to a as rich as possible a needle setting before it starts to really lose power, could be the same thing in the end as peak minus a few ticks. I had to lean out the low speed need about a quarter turn on the Asp .52 to keep it running at idle, what's your experience with the LSN on 4-strokes?

I'm sold on the 4-stroke sound and the whole mechanical intensity of it. I got into the planes just to play with more nitro, so 4-strokes really scratch that itch to play with small, detailed engines. I'm chipping away at the P-51 build that's getting an OS .62V FS, most complicated plane I've built yet- 8 servos, fiberglass cowling, retractable gear... I'll be happy if it's flying by next season. I should be taking pics and doing a build thread, but that'd just make it take even longer. I'll debut it when it is finished.

I'm with you on the magic of 2-stroke reliability. I don't think a 4-stroke would've survived the nose-first crash that I recently put my .46 LA through, but it didn't even get scratched and is already flying again. There's also the matter of price and availability, 2 strokes are cheap and plentiful, while the 4-strokes you have to wait for a deal if the engine you want is even available, (there are Asps on Aliexpress for under $200, though), or pay 2-3x as much as for a comparably powerful 2-stroke.

 

[Hobbydude2]

I do appreciate that I've got a field that lets me land crosswise if I need to, that happened on the midair stall. Only downside is we're next to a small, real airfield and everyone that has planes in the air has to hit the deck when they come in low overhead.

I've started tuning to a as rich as possible a needle setting before it starts to really lose power, could be the same thing in the end as peak minus a few ticks. I had to lean out the low speed need about a quarter turn on the Asp .52 to keep it running at idle, what's your experience with the LSN on 4-strokes?

I'm sold on the 4-stroke sound and the whole mechanical intensity of it. I got into the planes just to play with more nitro, so 4-strokes really scratch that itch to play with small, detailed engines. I'm chipping away at the P-51 build that's getting an OS .62V FS, most complicated plane I've built yet- 8 servos, fiberglass cowling, retractable gear... I'll be happy if it's flying by next season. I should be taking pics and doing a build thread, but that'd just make it take even longer. I'll debut it when it is finished.

I'm with you on the magic of 2-stroke reliability. I don't think a 4-stroke would've survived the nose-first crash that I recently put my .46 LA through, but it didn't even get scratched and is already flying again. There's also the matter of price and availability, 2 strokes are cheap and plentiful, while the 4-strokes you have to wait for a deal if the engine you want is even available, (there are Asps on Aliexpress for under $200, though), or pay 2-3x as much as for a comparably powerful 2-stroke.

My buddy has a Funtana 4 stroke powered bird, it flies great, less fidgety than a 2 smoker. Hes been busy and he forgot to clean up his engine after his last flight 10 years ago. The engine siezed up from sitting. Luckly his brother has a parts washer and strong chemicals that can release rusted parts. Only draw back with 4 strokes is more parts to worry about. The pluses, its torque, quiter, and flies smoother.

 

[gandalfnz]

I do appreciate that I've got a field that lets me land crosswise if I need to, that happened on the midair stall. Only downside is we're next to a small, real airfield and everyone that has planes in the air has to hit the deck when they come in low overhead.

I've started tuning to a as rich as possible a needle setting before it starts to really lose power, could be the same thing in the end as peak minus a few ticks. I had to lean out the low speed need about a quarter turn on the Asp .52 to keep it running at idle, what's your experience with the LSN on 4-strokes?

I'm sold on the 4-stroke sound and the whole mechanical intensity of it. I got into the planes just to play with more nitro, so 4-strokes really scratch that itch to play with small, detailed engines. I'm chipping away at the P-51 build that's getting an OS .62V FS, most complicated plane I've built yet- 8 servos, fiberglass cowling, retractable gear... I'll be happy if it's flying by next season. I should be taking pics and doing a build thread, but that'd just make it take even longer. I'll debut it when it is finished.

I'm with you on the magic of 2-stroke reliability. I don't think a 4-stroke would've survived the nose-first crash that I recently put my .46 LA through, but it didn't even get scratched and is already flying again. There's also the matter of price and availability, 2 strokes are cheap and plentiful, while the 4-strokes you have to wait for a deal if the engine you want is even available, (there are Asps on Aliexpress for under $200, though), or pay 2-3x as much as for a comparably powerful 2-stroke.

I'd like to see your Mustang build so far? To me after every rebuild or brand new build, if the plane survives the take off and remains in the air for a minute, I am relieved. There just too many things that can go wrong and send it to ground.

For me the 4T LSN has been a bit of a challenge, coming off 2T engines. I could never get the 4T to crisply transition fast from low to high. For a while I thought my LSN tune was off, then realized that they like to drag a bit from low to high, so just leave it a tad rich. Also these engines especially ASP for some reason take a really long time to fully break in. Mine are mostly brand new to second hand which have only just been run in with a few tanks. Apparently then need a gallon before they are singing. So it could well be that LSN/low RPM/Idle will improve as the engine gets broken in more.

Another point to note are your valve clearances. Have you checked your intake and exhaust valve clearance yet?
This needs to be done especially after first few break in tanks, and then checked periodically such as after few hrs of flying.
I suggest you look online or your engines manual on how to do this, if you haven't already.

There are still ASP engines to buy on Ali? Didn't know that. They have closed the factory long ago, or so I read.

My buddy has a Funtana 4 stroke powered bird, it flies great, less fidgety than a 2 smoker. Hes been busy and he forgot to clean up his engine after his last flight 10 years ago. The engine siezed up from sitting. Luckly his brother has a parts washer and strong chemicals that can release rusted parts. Only draw back with 4 strokes is more parts to worry about. The pluses, its torque, quiter, and flies smoother.

They do sound nicer and more quiet, larger torque/able to spin a bigger prop is offset by lower RPM.
Flying smoother should be more about the planes aerodynamics than the power train.

Managed to add another one to the 4 Stroke family.

I have a plane in mind for this one, its gonna go on this Piper Pacer I have sitting in a box.
Its designed as being electric, but a conversion to Nitro would be awesome.

Like what this guy has done
Pacer Nitro Conversion

 

[tudordewolf]

I'd like to see your Mustang build so far? To me after every rebuild or brand new build, if the plane survives the take off and remains in the air for a minute, I am relieved. There just too many things that can go wrong and send it to ground.

For me the 4T LSN has been a bit of a challenge, coming off 2T engines. I could never get the 4T to crisply transition fast from low to high. For a while I thought my LSN tune was off, then realized that they like to drag a bit from low to high, so just leave it a tad rich. Also these engines especially ASP for some reason take a really long time to fully break in. Mine are mostly brand new to second hand which have only just been run in with a few tanks. Apparently then need a gallon before they are singing. So it could well be that LSN/low RPM/Idle will improve as the engine gets broken in more.

Another point to note are your valve clearances. Have you checked your intake and exhaust valve clearance yet?
This needs to be done especially after first few break in tanks, and then checked periodically such as after few hrs of flying.
I suggest you look online or your engines manual on how to do this, if you haven't already.

There are still ASP engines to buy on Ali? Didn't know that. They have closed the factory long ago, or so I read.



They do sound nicer and more quiet, larger torque/able to spin a bigger prop is offset by lower RPM.
Flying smoother should be more about the planes aerodynamics than the power train.

Managed to add another one to the 4 Stroke family.

I have a plane in mind for this one, its gonna go on this Piper Pacer I have sitting in a box.
Its designed as being electric, but a conversion to Nitro would be awesome.

Like what this guy has done
Pacer Nitro Conversion

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That's awesome, the jewel of a collection. Congrats on the tiniest 4-stroke, I've been tempted to go for one myself, but I'm also limited to a grass runway, so anything under a certain size has a harder time taking off.

The P-51 build goes slowly as I keep ordering slightly different parts, wheels, servos, etc to make it all go together just right. I haven't started on the fuselage yet. just got all the wing servos in and am working on the landing gear. Cut the wheel wells out & glued them in, using my technique from cutting RC car bodies to make the servo-linkage holes, where I start the holes with a body reamer and then finish them with a hobby knife. I meant to make a more complete post, but that's just getting postponed too, so, for now:

I have read that that Asp/Magnum four strokes take a long time to break in, I'll see how this one matures, I've been very pleased with it so far.

There's some interesting nitros on Aliexpress, this one seller, "Toyhobby store", has a bunch of surface & air nitros, including some vintage Kyosho options like the slant-head GZ-15 (mislabeled as a GXR-15), and the rare Asp .06 and .09 engines, for ~$100.

Here's a listing for 4-strokes of various sizes, good prices. Note that they treat Magnum and Asp as interchangeable, listing says Asp and pictures have the engines badged "Magnum." Reasonable I guess since they're both licensed OS designs, I like that mine says Asp though.

I haven't checked the clearances yet, thanks for the tip- I ordered the OS valve gauge kit.

 

[gandalfnz]

That's awesome, the jewel of a collection. Congrats on the tiniest 4-stroke, I've been tempted to go for one myself, but I'm also limited to a grass runway, so anything under a certain size has a harder time taking off.

The P-51 build goes slowly as I keep ordering slightly different parts, wheels, servos, etc to make it all go together just right. I haven't started on the fuselage yet. just got all the wing servos in and am working on the landing gear. Cut the wheel wells out & glued them in, using my technique from cutting RC car bodies to make the servo-linkage holes, where I start the holes with a body reamer and then finish them with a hobby knife. I meant to make a more complete post, but that's just getting postponed too, so, for now:

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I have read that that Asp/Magnum four strokes take a long time to break in, I'll see how this one matures, I've been very pleased with it so far.

There's some interesting nitros on Aliexpress, this one seller, "Toyhobby store", has a bunch of surface & air nitros, including some vintage Kyosho options like the slant-head GZ-15 (mislabeled as a GXR-15), and the rare Asp .06 and .09 engines, for ~$100.

Here's a listing for 4-strokes of various sizes, good prices. Note that they treat Magnum and Asp as interchangeable, listing says Asp and pictures have the engines badged "Magnum." Reasonable I guess since they're both licensed OS designs, I like that mine says Asp though.

I haven't checked the clearances yet, thanks for the tip- I ordered the OS valve gauge kit.

Hmm, I not sure I understand fully what you are doing with the wheel wells, didn't even know they are called that, haha.
On all my planes they came already glued in. Does your P51 have one servo in the middle of the wing which works the retracts? Also your landing gear, is it machined aluminum like FMS planes or a springy wire?
Talking about retracts, I finally finished my Nitro to Electric conversion of Kyosho FW-190 warbird the other day. After two years in the making, I just installed the final part, which was the retracts servo. What I do not like on this model is the springy wire landing gear. I think some later models of this plane came with nice Alu machine ones. I was trying to figure out which FMS landing gear would fit the model, but there's so many out there, that for now I just gave up and decided to see how it behaves on stock first.
This plane will be able to push towards 1300W of power , it should see it fly pretty fast on 6S.
I used the FMS "Predator" 550 KV motor that is stock for their F3A Aerobatic Pattern plane.
The CG balanced out perfect with the battery pushed all the way up against the firewall.
I hope if survives the first flight, the adrenaline is too high when you take off with a plane you just put together or have done some major mods to it.
Now its back on the shelf again, until I obtain some 6S packs. Hopefully soon.

ASP and Magnum are exactly the same engines, from the same factory and manufacturer, name depended on which continent they were destined to I believe.
Seeing those prices on Ali, they are not cheap, I can usually get them for half the price here locally.

Now, about tuning ASP, which you asked me about in particular the LSN which you asked me about a few posts above.
Yesterday I ran the 4 Star 40 for the first time, and I noticed that the engine IDLE increases as the fuel tank empties. I thought OK, LSN is on the lean side, so I richened it, now when I re-fuel, its too rich, idle did go down however. Its nothing major, I could fly it like this, but still it annoyed me a little. I was happy to see the engine dry, after sealing it all up with silicone and plumbers tape (exhaust), there is a small leak still present where the carb slides onto the fuel intake pipe, I am not sure if I am explaining it correctly. There is small O ring in there, if you ever had it apart and saw one. I think I will mod this as well and add another O ring in the upper portion of the carb, as per pic. Here's a brand new 61 engine and you can see how its kind of twisted to the side, causing fuel and possibly air leak. I don't want to go down the rabbit hole and start hunting for mysterious air leaks because its not running perfect at idle. I will attribute this to engine still breaking in. I have read online they take 3 gallons to fully break in, wow, not sure if I will even get to fly this plane that long. Maybe we should just buy second hand engines, at least they will most likely be already broken in, or at least half way there, haha.

 

[Speed Chaser]

So I have to ask what is going on with the yellow/green stick coming out of the car headlight

 

[gandalfnz]

So I have to ask what is going on with the yellow/green stick coming out of the car headlight

Haha, it needs to be bent backwards a little, towards the car. That's the radio antenna the car came with. Go figure!