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revo conversion... oh yes.

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A BEC is short for Battery Eliminator Circuit. The BEC takes the supplied voltage from your battery packs and decreases it to 5 or 6 volts (depending on the ESC) for your receiver to use. If you run a higher cell count than what is rated for the ESCs BEC, then you'll need to disable the BEC(by cutting the center RX wire)and run a separate BEC that can handle the higher voltage. Kool Flight is one company that makes BECs for many different applications. Here is one that is commonly used with our E-conversions that run high cell counts.

http://www.rc-monster.com/proddetail.php?prod=6vubec&cat=21

The Plettenburg Big Maxximum is a good motor but is known to run hot and is less efficient than comparable motors from Neu and Lehner.

Some things to consider when selecting a brushless system is how many rpms are you trying to achieve with your system? Most brushless motors like to be run in the 35-40K rpm range. Any more than that and the motors tend to overheat, mainly because the bearings in the motors are limited to that speed. Neu and Lehner motors are rated for 60K and 65K (respectively) max rpm out of the box. They are also in the $300 range so quality does come at a price. To calculate max motor rpm, take the Kv rating of the motor and multiply it times the pack voltage. This will give you the max rpm that your motor will run. Keep in mind that all batteries experience a voltage drop when under load. High quality packs will drop their voltage less than low quality batteries. The voltage drop varies but expect between 1 to 2 volts drop with high quality batteries.

Once you figure out how many rpm you want to run, then you figure out which motor and cell count. Low Kv rated motor systems that use high cell counts are more desirable than high Kv/low cell counts for a few reasons. The higher voltage system will run cooler and more efficiently than a lower Kv system. There is also more starting torque with a low Kv motor. The drawback is that running a higher cell count means more weight from the batteries. It's also more expensive because high cell count batteries cost more money. Trying to find a happy medium between cell count, weight and efficiency is key to a good system.

Once you have chosen your motor and cell counts, then you select an ESC that will work with the cell count and motor. Don't just look at voltage numbers but also look at maximum amp handling and resistance. Less resistance is better, and more amp handling means there is less likelihood of ESC failure. To figure out how many amps you need, take the max watt rating of the motor and divide it by your voltage. Add 10-20% for headroom and that will tell you how many amps your ESC will be required to handle.

It is not unrealistic to see how the dollars add up quickly to over $1K just for your motor, ESC, batteries. (and new charger/balancer if you decide to run lipo cells). If your budget is $300, the Feigao XL and Mamba Max are the cheapest route. (You will be limited to 4S lipo with the Mamba Max running a separate BEC) You'll also need pinions, and the special mod1 pinions run about 15 a piece. You'll want a few of these to experiment with gearing. That leaves no room for batteries/charger. Or was $300 just for the ESC and motor?
 
wow... i have much to learn. thank you so much, sweetdiesel!

budget... yes. i forget about that sometimes, when i get excited... Feigao XL and MM it is. =)

so, here's the thing: i didn't know that my RX pack could run off the lipos! so... that means, i can get rid of those 6V under there! that runs my steering servo as well, i presume? seeing as the servo plugs into the RX... yeah. NICE... it's all clearing up now...

http://www.rc-monster.com/proddetail.php?prod=Quark65amproadster&cat=21

that ESC is on sale... Quark Roadster - $125, and from my untrained eye, looks like it might be something nice. while looking around, i keep hearing that quark name, which is why i'm asking... is it any good? or would i have to jump up to the competition or the monster pro? but... if i did jump up to the competition, could i do w/o an external BEC? or is the ultimate BEC a must with any ESC?

K, i'm almost ready to start. where is a good place/brand to start for my lipos? also... what's a nice charger for said lipos. i suppose i will also need a soldering iron...

charger? - http://www.rc-monster.com/proddetail.php?prod=m92531lipocharger

soldering iron? - http://www.teamfasteddy.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=33&products_id=2915

<3 for fast eddy... get some good chargers in there, already!!

so, for sure, i'm going with the Feigao (how do you pronounce that?). which motor... 7, 8, or 9XL?

http://www.rc-monster.com/proddetail.php?prod=FEIGAO_540C_XL&cat=20



oh... and that budget thing. i want something that's going to be reliable. so... keep that in mind. $300 is a nice sweet spot for me, but if i have to spend a little more for something i'm going to enjoy for some time to come, i will all be worth it, right?
 
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The BEC supplies both power to the RX and for your steering servo, and anything else that is running off the RX.

The Quark 65 you listed will not be able to handle the amp draw from the XL motor. The XL line is rated for 100-110 amps and you will see spikes as high as 120. The Quark 65 is not made for these loads, but is more suited for 1/10 sedan or 1/10 4wd buggy. The Quark 125B is a very good ESC and will be able to handle the loads you are going to run. It is very smooth and when set-up correctly has little to no cogging. You hear the Quark name mentioned a lot because they make very good controllers.

The BEC is required anytime you exceed the manufacturer’s recommended maximum cell count for use with the internal BEC. The BEC inside the Quark and MM can both handle up to 3S lipo. I can see that you are headed in the direction of higher cell counts so yes you'll need to run a UBEC. Even if you were to put together a setup that runs 3S, it is advisable to run a UBEC anyway, since the controller will run cooler if it’s BEC doesn't have to do the duty of converting unwanted voltage to heat.

Before making a charger purchase, choose your packs first. That way you can ensure that your charger can charge at the maximum rate. For instance if you get packs that are 8000mah but your charger can only put out 5 amps, it will take nearly twice as long to charge the pack than if you had chosen a charger that can put out 8 amps.

Lipo pack companies have much more competition now than they did a year or two ago. Just a sample of companies that have good packs are Maxamps, Apogee, Flightpower, Kokam, Orion, and Thunder Power. I'm sure there are other good brands. Least expensive are maxamps, the most expensive are Flightpower. Expect to budget at least 4-500 for batteries. Like anything you get what you pay for, if you can afford to buy well now, it will be money well spent. I'd stay away from no name ebay packs, their C rates often do not live up to what is printed on the label.

The Hakko 936 is an excellent iron. It heats up quickly and has a fast recovery rate. It’s definitely a very good long term investment.

Before making a suggestion for your motor, how many cells do you plan on running?
 
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more cells... the longer the run time, or more power? i don't know how many cells i need/want. like i said earlier. i want something that has some go to it, but with a respectable run time (30 min). recommendations, please :celb2:

:bow: SD... i have no idea what i'm looking at. :surrender i do not want to spend $500 on batteries... at maxamps, there are so many different batteries.

let's get poop simplified, here.

Motor - Feigeo 9XL - $90
Motor Mount - Adapter - $60
ESC - MambaMax - $137
BEC - Ultimate - $37
Batteries - you tell me... if you can find them at RC-M, the better, but if not, w/e.

$324 so far... so lets try to keep the batteries in the $150 price range. that way i can say i did the conversion for under $500. wow... for that kind of cost, should i just go buy an electric vehicle? lol. hopefully i can suck up some of the cost by selling parts. look for a parts blowout from me, shortly, haha. it will be nice to have a custom E-Revo. maybe i'll actually play with it then, too!

when i have some money to start sinking back into this hobby (once i graduate college... again...) i definitely know what i'll be doing. quark monster pro, Neu 1515, and a shite load of lipos, lol. until then... i think this setup that you've recommended to me will last a few years. i just want to bash it, so... yeah.

let's get cookin'!
 
Run 4S with the Mamba Max/9XL combo. 5S is pushing it with the MM and is out of your budget. With 4S you'll be spinning about 30K rpms but you'll be able to make up for rpms with gearing. Top speed will be in the 35-40+ mph range depending on pinion and spur.

The cheapest 4s pack with enough amp output is

http://www.maxamps.com/proddetail.php?prod=Lipo-6000-148-Pack

It is 6000mah which will give you about 20 minutes of runtime.
 
sweetdiesel, you are definitely the 'go to' guy for brushless systems. I've been copying your info for future reference in my boat build. Thanks man. Totally useful information.
 
you got that right, rolex! what a life saver... thank you, SD!

k... i'm good to go. i'll start my build shortly, i just have to gather some funds, and i'll be on my way!

we're looking at just over $500 for the parts... not too bad. little more than i had any idea went into this stuff, but, everything has it's price.

i'll keep this thread updated, as i progress... in the meantime... need some revo parts?
 
Did you get my PM? I have a couple 4S packs for sale if you want to save a few bucks and buy used. You might want to start a new thread in the Member Projects forum to track your progress.

Just a couple last minute things about running a brushless conversion. For the first few packs you will be doing only testing, so get a decent temp gun. At the start of each cycle, run for 2-3 minutes at a time and bring the car in for a quick temp check on the motor, ESC, and battery. Most of your heat issues will be solved though an increase or decrease in gearing. If you are geared incorrectly you'll heat one or more components up fast. Do not run your new brushless setup for a full non-stop pack until you are absolutely sure your gearing is correct.

Also once you get the Mamba Max ESC, it is a good idea to mount a 20-30mm 5V cooling fan on the heatsink, and power it off the 3rd channel of your RX. If you don't have an open channel, you can run a Y splitter. I'm not saying that the MM will overheat, but it will help keep it cooler. Also set the cutoff voltage a little higher on the ESC to 3.2 volts per cell instead of 3. Your lipo packs will last longer by preventing deep discharges at the end of the pack cycle.

Here are guidelines on how hot you can run your components without damage. Taken from another site.

Is my Motor/Speed Controller/Battery Pack Too Hot?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Although not always true, a rule of thumb is:
Hot motor, cool controller, cool batteries = undergeared
Cool motor, hot controller, hot batteries = overgeared
Warm motor, warm controller, warm batteries = happy components

Hot, warm, and cool vary as well, so here's another general rule:
Hot for a motor = generally over 160F (71C)
Hot for a controller = generally over 150F (66C)(or "thermal" range for the controller)
Hot for batteries = generally over 150F (66C) for nimh, 130F (54C) for lipo
Warm for a motor = generally 100F (38C) through 150F (66C)
Warm for a controller = generally 100F (38C) through 130F (54C)
Warm for batteries = generally 100F (38C) through 130F (54C) for nimh, ambient temp through 120F (49C) for lipo
Cool for all components = generally ambient temp and up to 10 degrees F (5.6C) more

The reasons the above are not always true are numerous, but may include:
Sticky drivetrain - will put un-necessary strain on electronics whether geared correctly or not.
Poor quality batteries - batteries will heat up regardless of gearing.
Wrong motor for the application - will put un-necessary strain on electronics whether geared correctly or not.
Wrong controller for the application - will put un-necessary strain on electronics whether geared correctly or not.

The list goes on, but this can give you an idea of things to watch for.

Edited to add the following:
Please note that this information applies to the sensorless brushless systems typically found here at RC-Monster.com (BK Warrior/Micro controllers, MGM controllers, BK motors, Lehner motors, Feigao motors). These rules do not apply to brushed systems or other brushless systems, at least not in the same ways.
 
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for what its worth, sd is one of if not the best seller on the board...if the batterys & price quoted by sd look good to you, by all means buy them

if needed I'm sure sd could get vouched for by everyone from the owner of this site to any member who has dealt with him myself included

wow that enough kiss ass for now lol
 
i'll be upgrading my steering servo during this process as well... how does this affect my battery life with lipos?

i've been looking at some options...

DZ9000T Digital Ultra Torque Surface
Specs
Type: Super Torque
Torque: 291 oz/in @ 4.8V, 320 oz/in @ 6V
Speed: .18 sec/60° @ 4.8V, .15 sec/60° @ 6V
Dimensions (WxLxH): 0.83" x 1.59" x 1.50"
Weight: 2.2 oz
Gears: Metal Gears


DS8711 ULTRA TORQUE SX
Specs
Type: Digital Ultra Torque
Torque: 347 oz/in @ 4.8V, 403 oz/in @ 6V
Speed: .19 sec/60° @ 4.8V, .15 sec/60° @ 6V
Dimensions (WxLxH): .82" x 1.58" x 1.56"
Weight: 2.36 oz
Gears: Metal alloy

User Note: Please ensure adequate power supply to your radio system. This servo is capable of high output, thus requires more power than a conventional servo. this is what got me... will this drain my battery faster than normal?


Airtronics 94358Z ERG-VB
Specs
Torque: 200oz per inch.
Length: 1-9/16" (39.5mm) Width: 3/4" (19mm) Heigth: 1-1/2" (38mm)
Weigth: 1.9 oz
Speed: 0.10 sec at 60 degree rotation-6 volt operation


i had originally always wanted that airtronics servo... but then i saw JR... and wow. if that DS8711 ULTRA TORQUE SX servo won't drain my battery too much... is it worth it?
 
You don't need to worry about your battery draining because you'll have 8000mah on tap to power your steering servo. Servo load is insignificant compared to the loads the motor wil be drawing.

I haven't used the last two, but I run the JR9000T in my brushless truggy that weighs over 11 lbs. It turns the wheels with ease.
 
what size pinions am i going to be needing? will i only be able to run the 3 different stock spur gears (36, 38, 40)?

found a set of pinions for grabs from 16-22 with caddy. those the sizes i'm going to need? i have no idea how to gear this soon to be beast... i use a 12T clutch bell now, so 16-22 sounds a bit high. but, what do i know, lol.
 
The pinions need to be 5mm mod 1 pinions to fit the 5mm shaft on the XL motor. rc-monster carries them. Pick up the same range of sizes that you would normally run with a nitro engine. The more pinions you have, the better you'll be able to tweak your gearing for peak performance. Get all three spurs.


The 16-22 pinions with caddy is more than likely made for 540 sized motors with a 3.2mm shaft. Also the pitch on them will not be compatible with your spur gear.
 
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