Posted at that "other" place... No Pressure Line Necessary!

[Got Nitro?]

What I'm not understanding,Is why release an article with partial info,what's the point of that,it only brings me to a marketing thought. I don't see the whole point of releasing info like this without testing being completed and the device or no device being released,kinda seem's retarded to me to make people wait for a chance that they might have a new "hop up" for racing,just my opinion.

 

[DerekB]

I can't figure out what the confusion is.

FIRST. The article explains the way you can run without a pressure line, how to do it and why. It's not "go do this now"

SECOND. The device developed FROM this data is being tested and really has nothing to do with the article other than it combines the performance of running with and without.

 

[robriguez]

What I meant from my statement earlier, was that were not trashing the idea, were just discussing it. Theres not enough data currently available to us (until the article comes out) to do anything more then discuss the possibilities of such a statement.

Now, once we all have a chance to read the article then we can start picking things apart. Maybe then we can all bash you and the idea if you like. lol. But until then we will just have to speculate.

And, as far as a "device" is concerned. Saying NOTHING is usually the best policy not, "oh yeah, there is this kewl thing, but I'm not allowed to talk about it." Of course that just going to make people curious and irritate others. I dont know how things work behind the scenes in RC companies or at RC Mags, but, in my business if your not allowed to talk about something due to a confidentiality agreement, that means that whatever it is simply doesn't even exist until the press releases are sent out. Period.

Unless, this has all been a ruse to make people want to go get the magazine. In which case thats just shady tactics IMO.

 

[rocknbil]

Umm, hasnt anyone had there pressure line fall off on accident? Well, I have and knew it because the engine died. Would riching the mix keep it running? I have a RS4 from a few years ago, had an awfull can muffler and some 3 piece manifold, but it also had a pressure line?.

The engine will lean out if the pressure line is removed, same deal as when you open the tank while it's running. This is because the "assistance" provided by the pressure line is no longer present.

If your engine died when the pressure line fell off, it's most likely because it was being run a tad too lean and overheated.

 

[Got Nitro?]

I can't figure out what the confusion is.

FIRST. The article explains the way you can run without a pressure line, how to do it and why. It's not "go do this now"

SECOND. The device developed FROM this data is being tested and really has nothing to do with the article other than it combines the performance of running with and without.

So once again,what is the point of releasing a article without complete information,there's no chance in hell I'm going to buy the magazine,If there's not complete info why would i wanna buy 2 or more mag's just to get one complete article,kinda BS man.Maybe XRC shoulda finished the complete testing and wrote a complete article,and the only way i could see this working is if you richend the hell outta your needle's to compensate.

 

[DerekB]

So once again,what is the point of releasing a article without complete information,there's no chance in hell I'm going to buy the magazine,If there's not complete info why would i wanna buy 2 or more mag's just to get one complete article,kinda BS man.Maybe XRC shoulda finished the complete testing and wrote a complete article,and the only way i could see this working is if you richend the hell outta your needle's to compensate.

What are you talking about. READ. READ READ. If you don't want to buy it or understand I can't help you. I can't say it any other way. We did an article testing a practice that has been around, apparently under ground, and proved what it did. From the testing we did and talk with a manufacturer that was involved they are in developement of something because of OUR testing. So stop with the incomplete. What is in complete is that you guys really have no idea what you're arguing. Don't buy it, or make somebody post it, but until then stop freaking arguing with what is fact and what isn't.

If you you haven't seen it yet doesn't mean it isn't a tested theory.

My head....ouch.

 

[Lessen]

Assuming one could add something to an engine that took advantage of the increased power down low without a pressure line and they return pressure at a set point to put more fuel in the engine when it really needs it (high RPM) and that device added more power at the top and 7,000 RPM more from 42 up to 49,000 RPM...why wouldn't you want it.

Simple things make big differences.

hmmm.. I'm reading a lot of hints there. You got me thinkin Derek.. so this "device" is ROAR and IFMAR legal?

 

[DerekB]

Actually, they just recieved ROAR approval, so you will be able to see it if you are at the nats....and if you know what you are looking for.

 

[vbgagnon]

or you know who to ask...

 

[Got Nitro?]

We argue over poop because that's what we do,were trying to discuss things,I'm sorry if this does tickle you pink,and who said it wasn't a tested theory? Derek you know what you could do,Post all the damn facts in one post on what did and didn't work? make life so much easier,It's also cheaper then spending the $5 on a mag.

 

[Lessen]

that wouldn't make him a very good promoter... :shrug:

edit-

actually,I suppose that depends on how you look at it...

 

[Candyman]

On the other side of this coin, I do believe that Derek is in a position to be able to back up what he's saying. Although he may not be able to put the numbers in right now, I don't think he'd jump into this if he didn't have is butt covered. That's one thing I have always liked about XRC. They tend to like backing up what they say with tangible research. I for one will wait to see what the dyno #s look like. Those will tell the tale. This is far from one of those "hey I took my pressure line off and guess what happend" threads. Or one of those "my pipe fell off and the thing went like 90" threads. Just remember 2 things. 1. Someone else brought the discussion here. And 2. He's willing to back it up. Unlike the LST/Pickup thread which bore no proof whatsoever. As do a scary number of topics like this on other threads. And without people who are willing to do things like this, our hobby would go nowhere. We'd still be running Cox freewheeling cars with .049 engines and chasing them down the road.

 

[RatzoRC]

We argue over poop because that's what we do,were trying to discuss things,I'm sorry if this does tickle you pink,and who said it wasn't a tested theory? Derek you know what you could do,Post all the damn facts in one post on what did and didn't work? make life so much easier,It's also cheaper then spending the $5 on a mag.

Dude, chill just a bit.
It's a discussion.

 

[DerekB]

We argue over poop because that's what we do,were trying to discuss things,I'm sorry if this does tickle you pink,and who said it wasn't a tested theory? Derek you know what you could do,Post all the damn facts in one post on what did and didn't work? make life so much easier,It's also cheaper then spending the $5 on a mag.

Actually for the most part I'm trying to explain things and people think I'm just here to make things up.

Of course I want you to buy my magazine, that's what we do. There's value to spending $20 a year on a subscription because of that.

I have all the "facts" posted in print, and I can understand if you dont' want to buy it. But if you don't and you don't understand or actually don't have the data to back up what your saying then why argue? Everything isn't free, I can't stop anybody from really scanning the article to show people, but right now I'm not posting the article, the article was being discussed and false information and actually just plain wrong information was being discussed and trying to be passed as the truth.

 

[Lessen]

ok, question. Not sure if you can answer it but I'll ask anyways.

How does it add power and increase RPMs while supplying more fuel at the upper range. When I read about tuning I understand that you lean the HSN to increase top speed. So my assumption is that in order to counter the richness you need to increase air intake dramatically.. Of course this line of thinking leads to forced induction but we all know that simply doesn't have that large of an effect. So how does more fuel = more speed?

 

[FastEddy]

right now I'm not posting the article, the article was being discussed and false information and actually just plain wrong information was being discussed and trying to be passed as the truth.

I'm lost......
Your article had bad info?
For some reason I don’t think so.
What the hell are you talking about?
I'm not following..

 

[Lessen]

I think he was referring to either the thread at the other site or this one.

 

[DerekB]

ok, question. Not sure if you can answer it but I'll ask anyways.

How does it add power and increase RPMs while supplying more fuel at the upper range. When I read about tuning I understand that you lean the HSN to increase top speed. So my assumption is that in order to counter the richness you need to increase air intake dramatically.. Of course this line of thinking leads to forced induction but we all know that simply doesn't have that large of an effect. So how does more fuel = more speed?

The HSN isn't speed needle it's a mixture. And at very high RPM, when tuned correctly it still needs more fuel. It's counter-intuitive if you only look at if you're tuned with pressure or without. Speed is a function of RPM, not the mixture. If you can get more RPM out of the engine you'll get more speed.

I'm not sure I can explain that very well at this point, I'll look into why and post why you need more fuel tomorrow. For today, I've beaten my head in to the desk enough.

Fast eddie, the incorrect information is that you need a pressure line to run the engine, and that without you'll ruin it. Also there was some very wrong information on how fuel is pushed or pulled through an engine.

 

[olds97_lss]

Wow!!! I leave for a couple days and all this happens?

Man Derek, I'm sorry I brought it up!

I just got the mag in the mail today (what's with the new plastic jacket?) and the first thing I did was flipped to page 169 to see what's what. To be honest, I expected more of an article, but the dyno was there, the explanation on how was there and application... but more has been discussed here than in the whole issue!

On the little .12 engine, running without the pressure line really took out the dead spot in the 12K-25K range. Totally linear as you said.

What I didn't see in the article is what size engines this is recommended on. Is it not for BB's in general due to the excess need for fuel?

Looking at what it did though, it seems that it would take some of the "light switch" engines and even them out to give a more usable low end.

 

[Lessen]

The HSN isn't speed needle it's a mixture. And at very high RPM, when tuned correctly it still needs more fuel. It's counter-intuitive if you only look at if you're tuned with pressure or without. Speed is a function of RPM, not the mixture. If you can get more RPM out of the engine you'll get more speed.

yes, I understand all that. I probably wasn't clear.

But in order to get higher RPMs you need to make a stronger detonation. A more powerful combustion will create a faster revolution of the crankshaft, thus faster engine speeds. I understand that a more powerful detonation will be had if the air/fuel mixture is changed to contain less fuel and more air. That is obtained by leaning ou the HSN (since we are talking about the upper range the LSN is ruled out becaue it is not really in play, the way I understand it). On the other hand, if you don't want to use less fuel you would need to up the ante on the air part of the mixture.. a la forced induction.. but we all know how that goes. I do understand that the faster the engine runs the more fuel it needs, that's obvious... but if you have already found the best possible mixure for top speed in a given enviroment, how can you possibly gain more power and more RPMs by increasing fuel in the mixture. The basics tells me that that would simply create a less powerful detonation unless you could significantly increase the amount of air in the mixture... I dunno, I can't figure it out.. guess I should have finished school..

as far as not having a pressure line at the bottom end but bringing back a pressurized enviroment at a set point... it seems to me one might be able to obtain that by creating a small check valve and placing it in the pressure line.. kinda like how you would install an inline fuel filter. It would stay spung close untill the forces behind it were consistant and strong enough to keep it open. Just a theory...