Build Thread My Ultima Pro (re)Build Thread KIT NO.3117 from 1989 ish.

[JRFisher]

I used 5.8mm balls because thats Kyosho stock on the Optima Mid. LA43H rod ends made a huge difference in smoothness for me.
W201H hardened 5.8mm ball were the other half of the magic.....

....Hopefully that will keep you busy while you wait for your next delivery.

Thank you sir, you are a wealth of information! I can't tell you how much I appreciate your input. Here comes another order!

I have used and like the Avid bearings.

All my rod ends are the same size, I will go with your recommendations.

For now I will keep the stock turnbuckles, I do like the ti but they are pricey. Not just that, but like I said, I'll be able to get a more accurate sizing when the front end if fully put together.

I do plan to take it down to MHOR (in Aurora CO) when done. I raced this Ultima at MHOR back in the late 80s when it first opened. It's the only track remaining from back in the day around here. There were several I raced at (I couldn't get enough back then) but this is the only indoor that remains. I recall one indoor track that had a huge jump, I mean it had to have been 4 ft tall. I think they had that huge jump just to sell more parts, it was silly. I also recall being whooped by two young fellers while racing at MHOR. I believe they were the owners sons. I'm not 100% sure but I believe they or one of them eventually took over the shop but have recently (about a year ago) sold it.

It would be a great thing to get this car back on that track!

 

[CertifiedMike]

I'm happy to help! I hope you like them! (I know you will!)
I have found great pricing at Amainhobbies.com liquidrc.com and plazajapan.com
Plaza takes not much longer than a few of my amain orders have. I know you hate waiting too but some of the prices and rare stock are WELL worth the wait IMO.
The only thing with plaza is shipping price so I tend to place large orders with them to save $$$.
I bought a set of stock Kyosho turnbuckles and a set of Avids. I like the avid more because of design. Ease of adjustment and the just look so good!!!
Kyosho is pretty easy to adjust too but I could see them being imposible to deal with during a pressured pit stop too. The design will always be nostalgic to me so theres that too.

I also ran these cars decades ago. My tracks were small. None still exist.
It sounds like we had similar experiences at the track. Even down to having been beat by a couple little kids who had AMAZING cars!!!
I also loved that time and am also building actual vintage (not re release) to race, not shelve.
I LOVE your plan!!!

I never owned an Ultima, odd as that is!

I'm loving this build!!!

 

[JRFisher]

At the risk of breaking something bad, I went ahead and removed the case from the speed controller. Glad I did, it had some dirt inside. We had a flood here back in 2013 and this box was in the shed and got soaked with muddy water. Most off the grime I have been removing has been from that event. The flood was in 2013 and I didn't open this box until 2019. (Then the stuff all sat until just now.) So anyway, I was concerned about the innards of the electronics. The motors were in fairly good shape aside from one which had a rusty bearing on one end. I have replaced that. The speed controller may or may not function, I'm closing in on that. Capacitors tend to go bad in any electronics over time regardless of the care they have been given so that is another potential failure point.
The wires could use a replacement, not sure if I should go all new or just cut off the bad. I could desolder from the board and replace but I think I will just fix the end pieces. I have the parts and a good crimper to repair the 3 pin connector and I'll desolder and make clean the connector cutting off that short bad wire.

When I got home from a trip into town I got some of my parts I've been waiting on so I will be able to move forward at least a bit till I run into another road block. ONWARD!

 

[JRFisher]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/388225938173?_skw=kyosho+triumph&itmmeta=01JWGG3JD1XS9N3GR6KWJWRAF3&hash=item5a6411b2fd:g:frkAAeSw9rFn9gFd&itmprp=enc:AQAKAAAA0FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1cYYCD/NiP4UMmg4CrhxOgqYp/+6sXPoc/wAE5kK34uSd6nGlvJlaele9p/jd+vp+PHgBvBJWU32Bub7Ao3Eb5GL5rwwMqcF/u+IU22q7ywb2ofeiGB5PUmEQaie3mb6NebAfRtGziuZdeypRRKOW0geHoUWcRTMGLhg1ZyGqZ3ok0/5/eRoeKEOrXjyJ+YZ5sYEgXq1LqoTwojYdNJy1T3ZkXUGfoExNRQGoQJm+CfjDAex4CR20MzIyv3z8+d7bY=|tkp:Bk9SR9KmjpDkZQ


Didn't you say you needed these?

He had 6 of em, I bought them all.

 

[JRFisher]

I'm happy to help! I hope you like them! (I know you will!)
I have found great pricing at Amainhobbies.com liquidrc.com and plazajapan.com
Plaza takes not much longer than a few of my amain orders have. I know you hate waiting too but some of the prices and rare stock are WELL worth the wait IMO.
The only thing with plaza is shipping price so I tend to place large orders with them to save $$$.
I bought a set of stock Kyosho turnbuckles and a set of Avids. I like the avid more because of design. Ease of adjustment and the just look so good!!!
Kyosho is pretty easy to adjust too but I could see them being imposible to deal with during a pressured pit stop too. The design will always be nostalgic to me so theres that too.

I also ran these cars decades ago. My tracks were small. None still exist.
It sounds like we had similar experiences at the track. Even down to having been beat by a couple little kids who had AMAZING cars!!!
I also loved that time and am also building actual vintage (not re release) to race, not shelve.
I LOVE your plan!!!

I never owned an Ultima, odd as that is!

I'm loving this build!!!

Oddly, everything I look up tells me my Optima Pro should have a metal bottom plate. Clearly it does not.

I copied this posting in it's entirety from:

RC10Talk - The Net's Largest Vintage R/C Community​

I hope I didn't misstep.

Kyosho Ultima Lineup 1991​

Post by Dangeruss » Thu Dec 26, 2024 8:13 am

Kyosho advertising their Ultima range of models in 1991:

Ultima II: Entry Level 1/10 2wd off-road buggy released in 1989. A base model version of the top-of-the-line Ultima Pro XL racing buggy. Injection molded Kelron chassis and components, four-wheel independent lower a-arm adjustable camber link suspension system, aluminum shock towers and aluminum capped, plastic bodied, oil-filled coilover shocks. A revised upper deck plate sandwiched the twin bellcrank steering system with built-in servo saver adjustable tie rods that led to adjustable hubs and knuckles. The chassis accommodated both transverse stick and saddle style battery mounting and included a 48-pitch transmission with aluminum motor plate and rear guard fit with a bevel gear differential and steel dogbones. Two-piece front and single piece rear "Aero Disk" style wheels, fine tread 185/70/20 M Bridgestone front tires and 340/30/20 M Bridgestone knobbies in the rear, clear lexan body, wing, and mini front bumper. The unassembled Ultima came with bushings a heavy duty rotary mechanical speed controller and LeMans Stock 05 motor, less radio.

Turbo Ultima II: Upgraded version of the Ultima II released in 1990. One step closer to the Pro XL and Included the same Injection molded Kelron chassis, suspension, steering, transmission, wheels, tires and body but added full ball bearings, hung Kyosho's Gold shocks off new fiberglass shock towers, replaced the bevel gear differential with a ball diff, and swapped in a MEGA Outlaw Stock Motor while remaining an unassembled kit less radio.

Ultima Pro XL: 1/10 2wd off-road racing buggy released in 1989. An evolution of the Ultima Pro the XL featured an extended length black fiberglass plate style chassis that allowed for transverse and saddle battery mounting, turnbuckle adjustable camber links over longer lower a-arms, adjustable front hubs and knuckles, and a twin bellcrank steering system with built-in spring-loaded servo saver leading to turnbuckle adjustable tie rods. Fiberglass shock towers held Kyosho Gold shocks while the 48-pitch transmission was equipped with a ball diff and output to steel dogbones. Included front and rear sway bars, full bearings, quick adjust toe and camber, knobby 185/70/20 M Bridgestone front tires and 340/30/20 M Bridgestone knobbies in the rear, clear lexan body, wing, and mini front bumper. The unassembled kit sold less motor, speed controller, and radio.

Outlaw Ultima Racing Truck: 1/10 2wd electric truck released in 1990. Based on the Ultima II and its Kelron chassis/lower a-arm adjustable camber link suspension, servo saver equipped twin bellcrank steering, turnbuckle tie rods and adjustable front hubs and knuckles. Aluminum shock towers held long aluminum capped, plastic bodied, oil-filled coilover shocks while a 48-pitch transmission was fit with a bevel gear differential and steel dogbones. 505/55/22 Bridgestone Sand Super pin style tires were wrapped around deeply offset single piece nylon wheels which spun on plastic bushings. A clear lexan Ford Ranger body topped the unassembled kit off which included a mechanical speed controller and LeMans Super Stock 34 Motor but sold less radio.

 

[CertifiedMike]

Boy those things are nice looking!!! I'd love to have them all!!!
I am not at all sure if the progression of Ultimas. I know even back then, chassis upgrades were a common thing. I put a JG graphite LWB conversion and a fiberglass one is still waiting for install, 35 years later.
Trinity, A&L (Factory Works) and others had chassis kits for them.
You might have an upgrade, you might still be stock.

 

[JRFisher]

I'm absolutely sure I'm stock. I bought my kit from my local hobby shop and put it together. There is no question in my mind, this is how it came. Aside from those white Andy's a arms that is.

 

[CertifiedMike]

Thats pretty cool then! The carbon chassis were def considered an upgrade, stock or otherwise.
Turbo Ultima Pro would be my guess but that based on the Mid options. I don't know that there was an Ultima "SE" version.

 

[JRFisher]

New bulkhead, new large end swing arm pins, new shock tower. Shimmed things to reduce slop. I'm glad I bought the new swing arm pins. The one was bent and I eyeballed it to straightness. Clearly it was not as that arm didn't swing as freely as the other. Now they both feel the same. A good set of shims is handy to have around, I've used them a lot in my builds. These are from Avid.

 

[JRFisher]

I've been screwing around for a bit. Trying to make sure I have all the correct screws for reassembly. There's some weird ones and I somehow lost a bunch from the partial disassembly I did 36 years ago. I'll try to purge as many of the phillips heads as I can.

I did a bit of a dry run and full review of the manual to hopefully make sure I ordered everything I need to put it back together.

Hurry up and wait! Well, actually, now would be the prime time to get fully into those electronics. I keep talking about a smoke test... Oh yeah, I guess I could assemble those shocks too.

 

[JRFisher]

I'm trying to learn a bit about all this old motor stuff.
Was the devices we soldered on to the motors just for preventing radio interference?
Are Com drops not a thing anymore?
I don't see folks playing around with changing brush spring rates.

As I was poking around I found these brushes for sale. I had used cut brushes back in the day but I have never seen brushes cut like most of these. Quite interesting.

I found a link to old Radio Control Car Action magazines, they are very cool to look through. Magazines were my primary source of info back in the day before You Tube and the whole internet thing.

Radio Control Car Action​

https://archive.org/details/radiocontrolcaraction?sort=date

 

[JRFisher]

It's kind of long (46 minutes), but I'm looking for some old time motor knowledge. I'm just curious.

 

[CertifiedMike]

Look to slot car companies for brushes and springs these days. I think the company connected to Parma is big in slotcars.

I used to mess with springs, brushes, cutting... its been DECADES. I don't remember much other than cleaning the things all the time!

I am tempted to give some brushed motors another go once I'm back up and running.

The caps that get soldered to a motor are to eliminate high frequency interference noise in the electrics. It does help eliminate glitching.

Good luck with the brushed setup!

Def keep posting about what you find! I have a bunch of old brushed gear that I'd love to get going again too!

 

[JRFisher]

A few parts trickling in. Turnbuckles are good to go. I'm really considering getting some new ones as the rod ends were a bit shorter than I expected and not that many threads holding on 4 of them. I really like the smoothness, especially compared to the old ones.

 

[CertifiedMike]

A few parts trickling in. Turnbuckles are good to go. I'm really considering getting some new ones as the rod ends were a bit shorter than I expected and not that many threads holding on 4 of them. I really like the smoothness, especially compared to the old ones.

View attachment 236974

Are the plastic ends the LA43H?
Its odd they would be diifferent lengths. Those ends and LA43 ( not hard) hav been used on Kyosho 1/10 scale for a long time.
I know that the shock ends OT201 are also 5.8mm ball, 3mm rod but are shorter in length.

AVID turnbuckles a 3.5mm but are SO nice looking, I bought a set to try... not actually installed or tested yet tho.

Kyosho titaniums are availible for reasonable $. I think I got a couple at amain and a couple at plazajapan. Liquidrc has good pricing on Kyosho too.
Be aware, Kyosho uses an allen wrench thru hole to adjust. No hex on the shafts.
The hole might make them easier to bend in a crash.
They can be a bit of pita to get the small allen thru the rods when adjusting but they work fine.

I was looking at Klinik RC turnburnbuckles last night.

 

[JRFisher]

They are:

I was considering these: Lots of length choices, on ebay.

 

[CertifiedMike]

They are:
View attachment 237002

I was considering these: Lots of length choices, on ebay.
View attachment 237003

Those turnbuckles look nice! I have heard a few ppl here say they use Acer and like them.
Titanium is a lot lighter than the steel too.

I'm glad you like the smoothness of the hardened rod ends. They are a lot different than the stock plastic!
I thought the original offer a smooth and controlled feel that I do like, just not fast enough maybe?
So weird they are different length.

 

[JRFisher]

I'm glad you like the smoothness of the hardened rod ends. They are a lot different than the stock plastic!
I thought the original offer a smooth and controlled feel that I do like, just not fast enough maybe?
So weird they are different length.

I can't speak to the "original" ones, it looks like I had replaced them all at some point. The manual shows two different balls in the link ends, one silver and one black. They are both 5.8s but perhaps the hole is different size? Not sure what the actual difference is. Mine was not like that when I tore it down.

It also appears that the screws attaching them to the ends are less than 3mm. I have some sorting out to do. I could simply drill out the places where the screws go, of use some of the smaller diameter screws that came off it. I just have to stare at it and do a little more measuring. A mechanic friend of mine used to say when things didn't seem to be going smoothly "Put some ear wax on it". (That meant take a minute to ponder the situation.) I always liked that one.

 

[CertifiedMike]

Ear wax... thats funny!
I had not considered the 2.5(6)mm holes for the linkages being used. Another thought is, is one ball threaded, one not? Look further in the manual and it should show the original hardware sizes.
The manual looks as though the black ball has a smaller hole.
I am unaware of hard balls for 2.5(6)mm holes. They may be availible too.
I replaced all the hardware on this car with 12.9 hex. Almost all of it is 3mm. I feel like its a good upgrade.
My ball ends and hub carriers all use 3mm hardware too. No forcing or drilling required.
The smaller hardware might be for weight savings.

 

[JRFisher]

I've done a test fit on all the linkages, I do have some smaller screws that were in it and will work fine with these ball ends. A few of my linkages are definitely too short with this setup. I ordered some of those Acer ti turnbuckles. The price is too good to pass up.

A few more parts trickling in, still a waiting game.

Poking around the net looking at battery things. Some of those vintage batteries are high dollar! I was amazed, even for sets that don't function. I poked a meter at my packs, the assembled red and yellow Sanyos had .3-.5 volts per pack. Some rust on the ends, not sure if they could or should be charged. The red unopened Sanyo pack reads an average of .659 v per cell, total of 3.952 v. They are very clean, not bad for a 38 year old battery pack.

Even those Duratrax packs read 3.282 and 3.783 volts each. I don't know if I ever actually used those or not. I'll likely charge one of those up and use it for my smoke test.

Anyway, on the net I found some of those red Sanyo 6 packs on sale for $169-$200! Good grief. Apparently some folks like to use them just for their vintage shelf riders.

The "battery bugs" were used to discharge a battery after use. Kind of fun going through all this old stuff.

Not sure if it's practical or worthwhile to take these apart and clean them up. I'm sure the packaged set and the Duratrax batteries will take a charge and be able to be used.

Losi's description of what a matched set of batteries is/was. I should call that number and see if anyone answers. (I just did, it is "disconnected or no longer in service") $49 when I bought them 38 years ago.