My impressions of FANTOM Nitro Engines

[x_789]

Well I bought a fantom a few months ago and since then I have had some issues ups and downs shall we say. Since I bought this Fantom Numerous times I have had people ask me what I thought about it. I told them that I would let them know once I came to a conclusion because I did not want to speak until I had put enough time into it well now its time to tell you what I think.

Ok I bought this fantom just over 3 months ago and when I got it I was pretty impressed nice looking motor seemed to be manufactured well but the carb had the idle screw too close to the inlet so it was near impossible to get a zip tie around the filter without it being a pain in the rear. This has been alleviated with the 03 models from Fantom because they have changed carbs and there is no longer the issue of the poorly placed screw. When I asked the support person at Fantom about this he said that originally they did this because they thought it would hold on the filter and people simply would stop using the zip ties WRONG. Bad Idea and they changed it for 03.

Initially when I got the engine I pulled out the instructions and read about how this new motor was ABSC (Aluminum piston, brass sleeve, silicon carbide coating) instead of the normal high end standard ABC (Aluminum Brass Chrome) These types of engines were sold by Fantom and HPI in there 2002 model engines. This process is supposed to be superior to Chrome sleeves. It is a process used in F-1 racecar engines is what the manual said. So the instructions say that this motor likes to be run at 270 and to not let it idle on break in. Instead you are supposed to drive it on the first tank to heat it up enough to break in this silicon carbide sleeve because it takes high heat to break it in properly. I went against my normal break in procedures and did it exactly like they said. Well this thing seemed to have some pretty good pep. After break-in was finished then I started tuning on it. I took it out for the first day of bashing and it was running ok then it would just die and was hard to start I was running about 250 to be on the safe side of what they said. First impression the temps jump drastically both ways and it wouldn't idle for anything. This went on for a few trips where it would run ok then once it warmed up it died as soon as you let it idle. I ordered a seal kit pulled it down and resealed the whole motor. Back to factory settings and lets try again. Got it tuned ok then I went out and to run it. Once again after it would get hot it would not idle for anything.

Now we have to take a step back at this point. I had contacted Fantom about a week and a half before I was starting to wonder why this thing would not idle. I attempted to contact Fantom’s Customer service because of the crank and it not being threaded down far enough. I ended up cutting out some of the end of my clutch nut so it could go far enough down to contact my flywheel. It was evident the problem was in the manufacturing of the crank. They did not thread the crank far enough down so the clutch nut bottomed out on the crank before it even touched the flywheel. Notice in the pictures below that the top engines crank has plenty of threads and notice the amount of space between the threads and where the crank gets thicker where the collet sits. The top is fine its a mach .15 cut to fit a Tmaxx and the second is a short version pro .15 crank I used to measure with, also notice the amount of space between threads and larger part of crank on the pro .15 engine. The bottom is the fantom it needs a minimum of 2 more threads cut into the crank and this problem would have been resolved.

Again I had contacted them over a week and a half earlier because people on this forum and others told me what great service they had. Well I didn't hear anything till almost two weeks later I can't remember the exact amount of time but it was more than a week and less than two weeks. When I was contacted I told them I had dealt with the crank issue. They told me they never had heard about this so I sent them links from 3 different forums where others had my same issues, along with pictures. They said they would contact their manufacture and look into it. At this time I have got half a gallon through this truck if not more and it simply will not run after it warms up. The idle has to be set two times higher than what it should be to keep it running. I also had a couple friends take shots at tuning it once it heats up it won’t stay running. Just wont Idle so I tell this to Fantom’s support they tell me to send in the carb, which I do. They sent me out a new one and I get the new style, which at first I thought did the trick. The night I installed the carb I tuned it but I didn't have but 45 minute to mess with it so I never really got to run it hard. Below is the old carb then the new carb pictures notice the asinine idle screw on old model.

old one

new one above
Well I got the truck out again. I was all ready to run the truck with the new carb installed and ready to roll. I got to do a little tuning and then I broke some stuff end of that trip. So I fixed what was broke and went out to run again the next weekend and the new metal throttle lever on the new carb broke in half as soon as I started it. Well I got a new lever put it on and tried again a couple more times. I never was able to get this motor to run out of 4 more trips out after it would warm up it just wouldn't Idle not to mention this thing had NO bottom end even running 16X72. I got smoked buy a 2.5 and a couple OS .15 CV motors notice I did not say CV-R motors.
Well yesterday I finally had it I pulled the piece of junk Fantom off and installed a .12 OS CV-RX engine I had sitting around I ran it 18X72 and it smoked the Fantom everyway from Sunday. Well after talking with a couple buds they tell me that Fantom changed back to ABC sleeves for 2003 and sure enough I looked in a Magazine today and their add says ABC sleeve. They also changed colors of the head big deal. Oh another bad thing was the head does not have a button it’s all one-piece. So screw up threads for glow plug, you get to buy a new head OUCH. Anyway after doing a little research it seems that from what I have heard and found on another forum the ABSC sleeves wear out QUICK. So it looks like my problem was a dud sleeve. Well I am not about to spend over half of what I paid for this engine to get a new ABC sleeve, because Fantom figured out on guys like me that the ABSC was a bad deal.
I just want to finish with these comments. I bought this motor because I heard lots of people talk about how good they are and I trust some of these people. Maybe it was just the crapy sleeve and if I got an abc sleeve it would solve all my issues. But honestly I am not going to waste my money to give them another chance. There will be plenty of folks in here talking about how good their Fantom is and how good Jeff at Fantom’s service is but I am simply telling you my experience from now on Its OS and TRX 2.5 for me ONLY.... X

 

[SkyMaxx]

I am glad you took the time to write a very thorough review of this engine. I hope you take the extra time and send a copy of it to Jeff at Fantom.

I am sorry to say that the only thing in this post that I agree with is that the carb design (with respect to the idle set screw placement) was lacking. Too date, I have nearly two gallons through my Fantom, and the only problem I have had is a broken spring inside the pull start (which Fantom replaced free of charge).

I do not have the other engines to compare against; my only competition has been Pirata's T and it has been limping most of the time.

While I do not share your same experience with this engine, I do appreciate the time and effort applied towards letting people know the specifics of your problems. I for one would still recommend a Fantom engine to those who might be in the market for a decent .15 engine.

Please note, these are just opinions...and we are all entitled to them.

 

[Capt-Kirk]

great artical i saw a link on here by a spammer about the silly cone sleve and piston for OS CV-rs. Its true the silicone carbide is used on F-1 and other high dolor apps but it is replaced after every race to be recoated. and they use dry sump oil controle systems with rings. silicone is soft high tmep adhesive and the carbide is slick and tough. mix and heat and you are sliding better than wet ice. but not for long.

maybe if you raise enough stink they will send you an ABC set for your trouble in thier public research.

Go with a name and rep you can trust a product thats been proven and mighty.

Thanks for the artical. and for more info do a google for silicon and F-1 there is tons of info out there on it.

Chuck

 

[x_789]

Update

Ok after reading Nitro Daves Post here I decided to contact Fantom Again about my issues. I really wasn't looking for anything free I just thouhgt I would point them to the threads here so they could see what I said. Here is what happened My Email First In BLUE
Jeff,
Sorry about duplicate emails miskeyed while i was working in another window. I am sending this email because of a few months ago I spoke to you about some issues I had with a Fantom engine. I believed at the time that it was an issue with the carb. Well after running about a gallon through this engine I finally gave up and pulled it off. I did some research and talked to some friends came to a conclusion it was an issue with the ABSC sleeve because once the engine would get hot it would not idle it just wanted to die and it just didn't seem to have much power. I posted on a site about my issues with it in detail and a friend on the site sent you an email because he was concerned about running his. below are both linksMy post first about my experience with my Fantomhttps://www.rcnitrotalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2399
And his post about his email to you and your reply

https://www.rcnitrotalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2420

After reading his reply I decided that I would contact you again about this issue. I honestly don't know what to tell you other than I listed my issues in the first post listed above. Thanks, Blake


After I sent that email with in a day Jeff from Fantom replied and here is what he had to say. "Note" I normally would not post what I was told in an email but while I was reading this I thought I would send him and email asking him if it was ok to post but at the end of his reply he asked me to post it so that worked out great.. X
The Text in Red is the reply from Jeff at Fantom

Dear Blake,
Thank you for your email, and the links to the forum. It appears that you are still having problems, so what I would like for you to do is send your engine back to us for a rebuild. We will replace the ABSC components with ABC type, and hopefully that will fix your problem. The experience you are having with your Fantom engine is thankfully not typical. We have sold thousands of these engines with very little negative feedback, so I am confident that we can achieve positive results with your engine. I apologize sincerely for all the inconvenience, and appreciate all of your feedback, whether negative or positive, because it helps us to be a better company.

In regards to your post on the forum, please allow me to briefly address a few of your comments.

1) You mentioned that I took 2 weeks to respond to you the first time. This is correct, but in my defense, if you recall I had told you that I had been out of the office. I am the only person authorized to answer e-mail, so when I returned to the office I had several hundred e-mails to answer, which is the reason for the delay. I just don't want people to think I always take 2 weeks, because I always try my best to answer all e-mails as quickly as possible. I have many responsibilities with the company, and unfortunately I don't always have time to answer e-mails quickly.

2) You noted that you broke the aluminum throttle arm. In response to that, I would like to let you know that we are going to be including an original type plastic throttle arm with all future engine shipments, which will give customers a choice as to which one they want to use. We have noticed that some customers are breaking the aluminum arms, and we are prepared to replace any free of charge with either another aluminum one or plastic.

3) You explained your unfavorable thoughts about our one piece head. In response, I would like to say that depending on who you talk to, a one piece head cools more effectively, thus the reason for our one piece design. The debate has gone on for a long time, but the argument is that the two piece design does not transfer heat to the cooling fins as effectively as a one piece design. In the past year we have only sold about 10 heads, so I think the stripped glow plug hole issue is minimal.

4) Regarding our use of ABSC, you said that "we figured out about it on guys like me". Not an exact quote, but basically what you were trying to say is that we used our customers as guinea pigs. In response, I would like to say that we sincerely thought that ABSC was better. It was not our intention to "try" something on our customers to see if it worked, but rather we truly felt we were giving our customers something better. We apologize every time we get a chance, to any customer of ours that has had difficulties with the ABSC construction, and do whatever we can to make them satisfied customers. We have been in business for almost 25 years, and take extreme pride in selling the best products we can. We would never intentionally betray any of our customers by using them in the way that you expressed. Also, just to let you know, we have actually had many happy customers using ABSC. As a matter of fact, I have had several complaints about us switching back to ABC. My point is that both are good, it's just that the ABC seems to be less sensitive to use, therefore much more user friendly in the R/C world.

5) In regards to your comment about F-1 race car engines using Silicon Carbide, there is also another big company that uses it, which is Honda. All of their current motocross bikes, available to the public, use Nikasil on their sleeves, which is the same process we used, but Nikasil is a trademarked name, so we had to use the name ABSC. As one other forum post said, "yes F-1 cars use it, but have it recoated every race"...in response I would say that yes this may be true, but we are talking about million dollar race teams. Any Honda dirt bike you buy has the same coating we used, and Honda doesn't expect customers to have to re-coat their sleeves.

I would appreciate it if you would please post my comments on the forum, so that people can see both sides of the story.

I appreciate your time, and apologize again for any inconvenience you have experienced with Fantom. Please send in your engine, and we'll do our best to satisfy you.

Sincerely,
Jeff
Fantom Racing


First I would like to Add Jeff did tell me this when he replied to one of my emails when I addressed the fact that it took so long to reply. His reply was understandable but I saw no reason to include it in my orginal post because I felt if that is the case that only one person can answer email that you should have a auto reply setup to inform customer that you are out of town and that they should expect a certain amount of time they will wait before they get a reply due to this. Atleast something that is just my opion.

As to the rest of it I am going to send in my engine to Fantom and have it rebuilt. I am talking to backspur right now about using one of his spare T-Maxxes to Break it in on that way I can keep my other one running. Anyway I will update you when i get the rebuilt engine and how it goes with that. I must admit other than the email issue Fantom has always lived up to what everyone says about great customer service...X

 

[nitro dave]

I am glad to hear that they have come through again. I will be posting soon about my fantom with the ABSC sleeve. I am interested what my experience will be with it.