Esc kv limit

[RC MAN]

Hi guys


I am going to purchase a Tp 3630-cm 7000kv 3s and I was going to run it on a max10 sct esc but then I realised that the max10 sct has a 3s 4000kv limit! Now I never thought of this limit before because most esc brands don't state it! So obviously 7000kv is way too much for it on 3s. What will happen if I go over that limit? Also would anyone be able to recommend any other esc that is the same price or Less that can handle 3s and around 10000kv or Less. (Preferably 10000kv)

Thanks in advance

 

[Greywolf74]

I would try a 1/8 scale ESC like the MM2. Youd end up smoking the MAX10

 

[RC MAN]

Thanks for that I really appreciate it!

Also is their any other slightly cheaper ones out there that you could recommend because I am trying to do a budget speed build and that would put a hole in the budget.

Like would this one be alright

TrackStar 1/8th Brushless Sensorless 120A waterproof ESC V2

Or this one even though it has got a very low BEC voltage

SIDEWINDER 4 SENSORLESS Esc​

 

[Greywolf74]

I couldnt tell ya about the trakstar. ESCs and motors are two areas where I typically dont go Chinesium cheap. Even on Hobbyking's website it doesn't have very good reviews. At least a third of the reviewers said it stopped working after minimal use so I would be real leary of it myself.

The SW4 specs show that it will not run that high of a KV at 3S. It tops out at on-road use in a lightweight vehicle 7700kv on 2S according to Castles website.

The Mamba X is the cheapest ESC that I would personally recommend for what your are doing and honestly I'm a tad gun shy to recommend it because I have no idea how many Amps 7700-10,000kv on 3S will pull doing speed runs. Personally, if it were me Id feel safer going for the Mamba Monster 2 but thats a step up in price. This is some footnotes from Castles website on the Mamba X. Its enough to make me wonder if it will hold up. I think it would but I can't guarantee anything obviously.

 

[RC MAN]

thanks i will probably go with the mamba monster 2 but could you put a link for the mamba x because you said it was cheaper

thanks

 

[Greywolf74]

thanks i will probably go with the mamba monster 2 but could you put a link for the mamba x because you said it was cheaper

thanks

LINK

 

[RC MAN]

LINK

also would you recommend the

Firma 130 Amp Brushless Smart ESC 2S - 4S​

 

[Greywolf74]

also would you recommend the

Firma 130 Amp Brushless Smart ESC 2S - 4S​

No, Id go with the 150A or the 160A Firma if it were me. Will it work? IDK, I've never tried to run a motor that high in to the RPM range so I'm not gointg to recommend anything short of a full fledged 1/8 Scale ESC.

 

[RC MAN]

No, Id go with the 150A or the 160A Firma if it were me. Will it work? IDK, I've never tried to run a motor that high in to the RPM range so I'm not gointg to recommend anything short of a full fledged 1/8 Scale ESC.

So to sum up...

you would recommend the mamba monster 2 over the mamba x even though for some reason the mamba x is more expensive and can't handle as many amps and is a 1/10 esc. The mamba monster 2 should be able to handle Tp 3630-cm 7000kv 3s fine. And finally you wouldn't recommend the spektrum firma 130amp esc even though it can handle ten more continuous amps then the Mamba monster 2???
Does the fact that the Mamba x and Spektrum 130amp esc are 1/10 scale ESCs and the mamba monster 2 is a 1/8 scale esc?

 

[Pat_ranch]

I wouldn't personally try to chase speed with kv. I think it's smarter to run bigger motors with bigger pinions. There's a balance you have to flirt with. The tiny little can you mentioned above is more for 2wd 1/10 ultralight rigs- which ain't easy to control at high speeds. Jus sayin...
Most of the successful speed freaks I know are running- at the very least- a 3660 can. Most are running actual big blocks (1717-2028 range) and gear ratios of 1:1 or better. The monster 2 can handle more current, but has a reputation for only working with certain motors. The mamba x is a great all around esc, but wasn't designed for speed. Firmas seem to be nerfed at high current draw, and hobbywings seem to be kinda good bang for the buck until you start pushing for 120mph+.
Speed's a total rabbit hole. I took a middle of the road approach, and haven't regretted it yet. I'm running a 3s typhon build with a 3660 2400kv motor, blx185 esc, 38t homemade spool, and 23t pinion. I just switched to the spool from a factory 57t spur and a 27t pinion. My pb is only 97mph, but I have no doubt it'll break 100 easily. I just haven't put much time or effort into making the time to run it. It's a handfull over 75mph.
Regarding my esc, I've noticed it kinda lags when I get too heavy on the throttle between 70 & 90mph, so I have to ease into it more.
The monster2 has a reputation for massive current, but doesn't like certain motors, so I doubt I'll mess with it. If I get that serious, I'll get an xlx2 and big block, then build an infraction with a gt body and do the whole thing smarter than I did with my little typhon.

I have more fun jumping and drifting than I do speedrunning.

 

[Greywolf74]

So to sum up...

you would recommend the mamba monster 2 over the mamba x even though for some reason the mamba x is more expensive

Yes. I didnt realize that the MM2 is cheaper or I would have recommended it in the first place. The Mamba X is more expensive because it has data logging capabilities and the ability to run sensored.

and can't handle as many amps and is a 1/10 esc.

The MM2 is a step up from the Mamba X in terms of power and Castle doesn't release info on exactly how many Amps their ESCs can handle but its inteded for a heavier job so its safe to assume that it handles more. This is what I used to do speed runs with only I was using a 2200kv on 6S.

The mamba monster 2 should be able to handle Tp 3630-cm 7000kv 3s fine.

This is an educated guess on my part as I've said before but I believe it would.

And finally you wouldn't recommend the spektrum firma 130amp esc even though it can handle ten more continuous amps then the Mamba monster 2???

Not sure where you got your numbers but the MM2 will out perform a 130A Firma. Even if you could get the Amp ratings for the Castle ESC you can't trust power ratings from manufacturers to be correct a lot of the time. Theres a lot of desceptive marketing that goes on. Some companies are more honest about their numbers that others. Just like how C ratings on LiPos are blown waaaaaay out of proportion.

Does the fact that the Mamba x and Spektrum 130amp esc are 1/10 scale ESCs and the mamba monster 2 is a 1/8 scale esc?

Not sure exactly what you're trying to ask here as the question seems incomplete but if you're asking if thats why the MM2 would be a better choice then yes. The bigger the scale the bigger the ESC will be.

 

[RC MAN]

I wouldn't personally try to chase speed with kv. I think it's smarter to run bigger motors with bigger pinions. There's a balance you have to flirt with. The tiny little can you mentioned above is more for 2wd 1/10 ultralight rigs- which ain't easy to control at high speeds. Jus sayin...
Most of the successful speed freaks I know are running- at the very least- a 3660 can. Most are running actual big blocks (1717-2028 range) and gear ratios of 1:1 or better. The monster 2 can handle more current, but has a reputation for only working with certain motors. The mamba x is a great all around esc, but wasn't designed for speed. Firmas seem to be nerfed at high current draw, and hobbywings seem to be kinda good bang for the buck until you start pushing for 120mph+.
Speed's a total rabbit hole. I took a middle of the road approach, and haven't regretted it yet. I'm running a 3s typhon build with a 3660 2400kv motor, blx185 esc, 38t homemade spool, and 23t pinion. I just switched to the spool from a factory 57t spur and a 27t pinion. My pb is only 97mph, but I have no doubt it'll break 100 easily. I just haven't put much time or effort into making the time to run it. It's a handfull over 75mph.
Regarding my esc, I've noticed it kinda lags when I get too heavy on the throttle between 70 & 90mph, so I have to ease into it more.
The monster2 has a reputation for massive current, but doesn't like certain motors, so I doubt I'll mess with it. If I get that serious, I'll get an xlx2 and big block, then build an infraction with a gt body and do the whole thing smarter than I did with my little typhon.
View attachment 129461
I have more fun jumping and drifting than I do speedrunning.

Thanks for the info

The can size of the 3630-cm 3s isn’t actually 36mm by 30mm. It’s actually 36mm by 60mm. very confusing why tp did that i know

also i too have more fun drifting, jumping and bashing but i do like a fast car.(great typhoon setup)

and also why do you try and chase speed with bigger gearing? just wondering

Not sure exactly what you're trying to ask here as the question seems incomplete but if you're asking if thats why the MM2 would be a better choice then yes. The bigger the scale the bigger the ESC will be.

yeah sorry i wasn’t very clear on that question my mac had 1 percent left and i had to leave it at that lol . but what i was trying to basically say is it that the bigger the scale of the esc the more power it can handle eg. more kv and amps.

also a bit off topic but if a fully charged lipo is 12.6v then why do they say 3s lipos are 11.1v and does that mean when we are working out the max amps, max rpm and the max and continuous amps of our motors we should be doing the calculations with the 12.6 not the 11.1? for 3s any way.

 

[Greywolf74]

The can size of the 3630-cm 3s isn’t actually 36mm by 30mm. It’s actually 36mm by 60mm. very confusing why tp did that i know

A lot of motor manufacturers dont use the can size as the model number. Would be nice if they did and added 2 more numbers to it to represent the mounting hole spacing too.

also a bit off topic but if a fully charged lipo is 12.6v then why do they say 3s lipos are 11.1v and does that mean when we are working out the max amps, max rpm and the max and continuous amps of our motors we should be doing the calculations with the 12.6 not the 11.1? for 3s any way.

11.1V is the nominal voltage of a 3S pack. "The nominal voltage is what they market the battery as and what it is generally referred to. As an example using sealed lead acid batteries – a SLA battery that says 6 volts on the label has a nominal voltage of 6 even if its actual voltage when fully charged is 6.23. This ‘real’ voltage is known as the charge voltage – what the battery should be charged to, not what is on the label!"

All LiPos are this way. Nominal voltage for a single lipo cell is 3.7V and the Charge Volatge is 4.2V. So a 2S Lipo is 7.4V nominal but 8.4V charge volatge. If you want to try and give yourself a buffer than you could use the charge voltage to make your calculations but under a 20-30A load the actual voltage of a 2S lipo drops from 8.4 to about 7.9-8.0 pretty fast so unless you're doing speed runs or something else where you're going to be 100% WOT right from the start of a fresh pack its probably not necessary.

 

[tntpoof]

all these #s are so confusing .nominal voltage ok. sorry when it hit that said nominal voltage isnt it below a safe storage voltage ? I deal with fully charged batteries dont waste my time with nominal#

 

[Greywolf74]

all these #s are so confusing .nominal voltage ok. sorry when it hit that said nominal voltage isnt it below a safe storage voltage ? I deal with fully charged batteries dont waste my time with nominal#

Storage voltage for lipos is usally arounf 3.85V/C so it is below typical storage voltage but you can easily run a lipo down to 3.2V/C without damaging it. Nominal voltage is more just a marketing thing. It doesn't really mean much.

 

[Pat_ranch]

I prefer bigger cans and pinions to keep the voltage and temps more in the midrange. I know my firma and blx esc's are kinda nerfed at high amp draw, so I try to find the top speed of a certain gear ratio by working up to it without triggering voltage sag. And by paying attention to the temps, I can track and predict what my motor and esc will do with other gear ratios. Bigger motors have better torque, and overall higher watt output, too.
Besides, pinions are cheaper than motors.

 

[RC MAN]

A lot of motor manufacturers dont use the can size as the model number. Would be nice if they did and added 2 more numbers to it to represent the mounting hole spacing too.

i know right it would make life so much easier!

Any way would you have a educated guess to how many amps the MM2 can handle.

also which one would be the better motor with the MM2 the Tp 3630-cm 7000kv 3s or the Tp 3640 4700kv. The Tp 3640 4700kv will draw 215 amps max and the Tp 3630-cm 7000kv 3s will only draw 147 max amps so i could probably gear the 3630-cm up more than the 3640. I want to use a 45t pinion and a 84t spur on the 3630-cm 7000kv 3s so if i get the 3640, the gear ration is going to have to be insane to equal the same speed and i do want to do some bashing with it so i dont want to gear any higher than that. The 3630-cm also weighs 10 grams more than the bigger 3640 4700kv which makes no sense.

also why doesn't the MM2 have a kv limit and other ESCs do.

 

[Greywolf74]

i know right it would make life so much easier!

Any way would you have a educated guess to how many amps the MM2 can handle.

also which one would be the better motor with the MM2 the Tp 3630-cm 7000kv 3s or the Tp 3640 4700kv. The Tp 3640 4700kv will draw 215 amps max and the Tp 3630-cm 7000kv 3s will only draw 147 max amps so i could probably gear the 3630-cm up more than the 3640. I want to use a 45t pinion and a 84t spur on the 3630-cm 7000kv 3s so if i get the 3640, the gear ration is going to have to be insane to equal the same speed and i do want to do some bashing with it so i dont want to gear any higher than that. The 3630-cm also weighs 10 grams more than the bigger 3640 4700kv which makes no sense.

also why doesn't the MM2 have a kv limit and other ESCs do.

The answer to pretty much all of your questions is "IDK". I've never messed with those high powered 1/10 scale TP motors so I have nothing to really go on other than hunches. The problem with going out side the box is it takes experimentation to find out what works and what doesn't. Doing speed runs in general is the same way which is why speed run cars often are very expensive to build and dial in.

 

[Bri26]

I'm not sure if it matters but the Tp brushless motors look to be made for RC airplanes which may or may not have a power band that is suitable for an RC vehicle. Also, have you checked that a 45T pinion gear will for sure fit in your RC vehicle?

 

[LibertyMKiii]

@RC MAN
What RC car are you doing this with? The weight and size will play a big part in the motor sizing and ESC needs.
Realistically how fast do you want to see this car go?
Have you considered how you will record speeds yet? The GPS units run around $60-80. Don't put your cell phone on the car....

You can go cheap on motors like surpass or others, but the ESC is the biggest factor in going fast. Even factory motors from Arrma are not bad (See example below in credentials). The Arrma BLX185 esc or their new smart series will stop in the 94-98 mph range with metal chassis 1/8 scale cars. This number would be higher with a lighter 1/10 on-road car.

The limits of this ESC is due to amperage limiting. Amperage limiting exists on all HobbyWing ESCs or their re-branded models like the Arrma ESCs.

Credentials for my input:

I have been 130 with the Arrma Typhon on the stock blx2050 motor.
At one point I had the worlds fastest 2 cell Limitless at 86 mph. (using a TP4050 motor)
Now building an custom car for 200+ goals.

Pics of the new build:

Body mold:

Design in CAD