BL Motor Questions

[ajdragon]

Hi

I have a converted RC10GT and I got a HW 10BL60 ESC for it, but I'm not sure about what motor to get. The manual for the ESC says 3656-size or smaller motor with a 6000kv to 3000kv rating. So my questions are, Is the 3656 referring to the size of the motor can (36mm X 56mm), and if so can I use a 3660 motor instead? The motor I'm interested in is the HW QUICKRUN 3660SL 3700kv G2 (2-3S) I'm not sure if this would be to big for my ESC.

 

[biggman100]

Hi

I have a converted RC10GT and I got a HW 10BL60 ESC for it, but I'm not sure about what motor to get. The manual for the ESC says 3656-size or smaller motor with a 6000kv to 3000kv rating. So my questions are, Is the 3656 referring to the size of the motor can (36mm X 56mm), and if so can I use a 3660 motor instead? The motor I'm interested in is the HW QUICKRUN 3660SL 3700kv G2 (2-3S) I'm not sure if this would be to big for my ESC.

It has to be a 3650. A 3660 will just ruin the ESC. As for the motor, it entirely depends on what battery you are using. For 2S, you want to stay between 4000 and 5000KV, and, for 3S, between 3000 and 4000KV. The motor you linked is way too much for that ESC. This is the motor that is better recommended for 2S: QUICRUN 3652 SL brushless G2 motor-4000KV- Part #30404401 and for 3S: QUICRUN 3652 SL brushless G2 motor-3250KV-Part # 30404400

This is another motor you can pair with that ESC: https://www.hobbywingdirect.com/pro...ed-2-pole-brushless-motor?variant=31171297489 but, stay with the 8.5T or the 10.5T. The 8.5T (4560KV) is only for 2S, and the 10.5T (3600KV) is for 3S. Now, what i typically do is just match that ESC to the cheap Chinese motors, using the specs i listed, that you can find on eBay and Amazon. Personally, doing that has always worked for me, but, some prefer that everything be from HW.

If you are determined to have a 3660, then you need a 120A or higher ESC, like the Max10 SCT, or the WP-10BL120, or the WP-SC8, although, in a light 2WD, that is overkill.

 

[Sixtysixdeuce]

I personally would have done a 10BL120 for that application, but I tend to overpower everything. I use the 10BL60 in 1/14 & 1/16 scale stuff.

The GT is not very heavy, so a 4 pole 3650 of 3,300-4,000 KV should have you moving just fine on 2S with appropriate gearing.

 

[biggman100]

I personally would have done a 10BL120 for that application, but I tend to overpower everything. I use the 10BL60 in 1/14 & 1/16 scale stuff.

The GT is not very heavy, so a 4 pole 3650 of 3,300-4,000 KV should have you moving just fine on 2S with appropriate gearing.

Actually, after owning several of those ESC's (at one point i had them in more than 10 cars), i learned that between 3000 and 4000KV on 2S, it will maybe do 25-30MPH in pretty much any 1/10TH 2WD you put it in, with barely enough power, and a lot of cogging, to move it, and will barely move a 4WD. About a year or so ago, i actually had a discussion with several people about it after i paired one with a 3800KV 3660, and it kept cutting out. Between that whole thing, and several discussions with HW, i finally figured out why its best to follow the recommendations HW set up, which are 4000 to 5000KV on 2S, and 3000 to 4000KV on 3S, and nothing bigger than a 3656 at maximum.

This 2WD Slash, for example, has that ESC paired with a 4300KV cheapo motor, on 2S:

And, this ECX Torment has that ESC paired with a 3500KV cheapo motor, and, on 2S, it sucked:

 

[Sixtysixdeuce]

Actually, after owning several of those ESC's (at one point i had them in more than 10 cars), i learned that between 3000 and 4000KV on 2S, it will maybe do 25-30MPH in pretty much any 1/10TH 2WD you put it in, with barely enough power, and a lot of cogging, to move it, and will barely move a 4WD. About a year or so ago, i actually had a discussion with several people about it after i paired one with a 3800KV 3660, and it kept cutting out. Between that whole thing, and several discussions with HW, i finally figured out why its best to follow the recommendations HW set up, which are 4000 to 5000KV on 2S, and 3000 to 4000KV on 3S, and nothing bigger than a 3656 at maximum.

This 2WD Slash, for example, has that ESC paired with a 4300KV cheapo motor, on 2S:

And, this ECX Torment has that ESC paired with a 3500KV cheapo motor, and, on 2S, it sucked:

Given that I only have experience with the 10BL60 in smaller scale kits, I'll yield to your statements on this. I'm just going on my 2WD buggies and trucks with motors in that range on 2S, though all of them have 90-120A ESCs. My original RC10CE, of which almost nothing is still original now, has a 3430 KV 4 pole 3650 and an Associated SC1200 ESC. it's quick on 2S, and difficult to control on 3S. Some of that is the overly-rigid 4mm carbon fiber chassis I made and over-sprung TLR big bore shocks, but it's still just much more power than it can effectively put to the ground on 3S. I really don't use 3S in 1/10 kits, but I'm also not bashing with them, have 1/8 and 1/5 4wd stuff for that. I find 2S power paired with 10/10.5 or 13.5T motors to be just about perfect for 1/10 2WD on the technical clay track at MHOR.

 

[ajdragon]

Hi

I know a little bit about BL systems and what some of the terminology is but when it comes to matching esc's and motors I totally suck.

I'm not dead set on the motor I listed above, I'm just trying to find something that will work with the esc I have.

Would this be a better option Spektrum Firma 85A Brushless Smart ESC / 3300Kv Sensorless Motor Combo

I will only be using 2s packs, 30 to 40 mph is the top speed I'm looking for, I'm not a big basher or speed runner. I just want to be able to go out and play, and get performance similar to or the same as what the original OS CV.12 engine that came with the RC10GT. My Arrma Raider XL has a BLX80 ESC and running that thing on the stock 7 cell Ni-Mh pack was a bit much for me, I dialed it's speed back by 33% to keep it under control. That's why I thought the HW 10BL60 would work with a vehicle that is nearly 25% lighter then then my raider.

 

[tntpoof]

the sensorless system will have a startup clog no getting around that with cenorless..get a censored system. 25mph on 4000kv then its tottally geared wrong.I get 27mph on a 17.5 which is 2400kv max more like 2250kv.

 

[biggman100]

Hi

I know a little bit about BL systems and what some of the terminology is but when it comes to matching esc's and motors I totally suck.

I'm not dead set on the motor I listed above, I'm just trying to find something that will work with the esc I have.

Would this be a better option Spektrum Firma 85A Brushless Smart ESC / 3300Kv Sensorless Motor Combo

I will only be using 2s packs, 30 to 40 mph is the top speed I'm looking for, I'm not a big basher or speed runner. I just want to be able to go out and play, and get performance similar to or the same as what the original OS CV.12 engine that came with the RC10GT. My Arrma Raider XL has a BLX80 ESC and running that thing on the stock 7 cell Ni-Mh pack was a bit much for me, I dialed it's speed back by 33% to keep it under control. That's why I thought the HW 10BL60 would work with a vehicle that is nearly 25% lighter then then my raider.

It will work on 2S, but it will be slower than a 4000 to 5000KV motor. The one you linked is actually for 3S, but, if you are looking for something that is controllable, and not insane speed, it would definitely work for that, however, i would recommend a better setup, the Team Associated Reedy combo. Same amp ESC, and same KV motor, but, in my experience, way more reliable: https://www.ebay.com/itm/284233950503?hash=item422da9e527:g:~nsAAOSwAKlguFo9&amdata=enc:AQAIAAAA4CpAPpd478XVGMORIDQJtEiFh1aFlU49tGIFqC/QwsnW7CsoP6h07Kohv+jNB6OO2EG53MIP6NuUzVcxzYvZIuaCJtBunilQEqhBWupCuxXvRCF5tQBUYP6fS7bdivCh4E/fXoxMNcs8LgrNYw/zfgE4L+fHNC49u740BHGgXhtfdDlo2T3e4tnG7uhMivpm04xWHkOqFwfaY+iW/CiBDX5cy41wavV+yTc/s+sWecu+wPkZSuAXy67jKSdkP3ioSDqoTIJSXvPfHxRDweoT///nxentxlU3Ahb/gv8Wu2xK|tkp:Bk9SR4jZg9SUYg I run that combo in both her DR10 drag car, and my ProSC10, and, on 2S, it will do around 30MPH, and is fairly controllable. On 3S, it really can be a handful though. This is her DR10 with the Reedy combo on 2S:

The video also shows my ProSC10 on 2S with the same combo as well. As for the 10BL60, if you pair it with a 3500 or 3800KV 3650 series motor, on 2S, you wont get insane speed, but, it will be a bit quick, although, not uncontrollably quick. Personal disclaimer, since i have had nothing but problems with Arrma BLX and Spektrum Firma ESC's, i tend to stay completely away from them anymore. I have had way better luck with Reedy and HW than anything else.

EDIT: A couple years ago, i had a 2WD Slash with a HW 10BL60 ESC and cheapo 4370KV motor (the one in the other video i linked), and a Losi 22S SCT with at first, a Dynamite 60A ESC, and 3300KV 3650 motor, and, later the Reedy combo, and, on 2S, the Slash was quicker everytime, so, as an experiment, i put a 3500KV 3650 in the Slash, and, it lost roughly 8 MPH, and wasn't nearly as fast on 2S.

 

[Sixtysixdeuce]

I will only be using 2s packs, 30 to 40 mph is the top speed I'm looking for, I'm not a big basher or speed runner. I just want to be able to go out and play, and get performance similar to or the same as what the original OS CV.12 engine that came with the RC10GT.

It won't be hard to match the .12 CV with a BL system. They were good engines, reliable and held a tune well, but not screamers like the .12 TZ or high end Picco and Novarossi mills. I have a GT2 with a .12 TZ, and I can't think of a 2S combo that would match it. That truck is a handful, especially on unprepped surfaces.

The blue tub GT is a little more robust than a 10T, but any combo that works well in a typical stadium truck will do fine. You already have the 10BL60, so if you don't have a different kit to put it in and can't return it, might as well give it a go. Of course, you won't have to worry as much about overworking things by using a 10BL120, which are under $50 and support sensored motors. That's what I run in my B2 buggy with a sensored HW Quicrun 13.5T 3650. It's very smooth, especially for a $105 combo.

 

[biggman100]

I just ordered one of these, with the 4000KV motor. Already waterproof, and $85 for the combo, doesn't seem like a bad deal to me. Reading the specs though, its good for a light 1/10TH 2WD, but, i wouldnt put it in a 4X4 bigger than 1/12TH scale. It is uncensored though, but, sensored has never been a big deal for me, since i only bash. https://www.hobbywingdirect.com/pro...2716275&pr_seq=uniform&variant=40838717407347

You can get the motor from the combo i just linked, in either a 3250KV, which would be a bit slower on 2S, or a 4000KV, which would be a bit faster than what you are possibly looking for, for around $35. https://www.hobbywingdirect.com/pro...5314291&pr_seq=uniform&variant=40838964117619

 

[ajdragon]

Hi

I think I'll see about getting the WP 10BL120 combo, I think I'll get an inexpensive motor, I came across this one, GoolRC S3650 4300KV Sensorless Brushless Motor

 

[biggman100]

Hi

I think I'll see about getting the WP 10BL120 combo, I think I'll get an inexpensive motor, I came across this one, GoolRC S3650 4300KV Sensorless Brushless Motor

That motor will make it fast. I currently have that same motor in my 2WD Slash, and, on 2S, that truck does between 45 and 50, depending on the surface. You said you wanted something that wouldnt make it extremely fast on 2S, so, for a cheap option, this would be a better choice: https://www.amazon.com/GoolRC-3500KV-Waterproof-Brushless-HuanQi/dp/B07BFB1KJ3/ref=sr_1_2?crid=63S2UYUJCIZJ&keywords=3650+3500KV&qid=1686453539&sprefix=3650+3500kv,aps,107&sr=8-2 and this one would be a bit faster, but, would be under the 40MPH mark: https://www.amazon.com/Faceuer-Professional-Brushless-Exquisite-Workmanship/dp/B08YK7FP3W/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2OGPILXE8ARZQ&keywords=3900kv+brushless+motor&qid=1686453637&sprefix=3900kv+brushless+motor,aps,100&sr=8-2 One thing to watch for with those cheapo motors is the motor shaft size. Most are 3MM, which is what most pinions are, but, some are 5MM, which can make it hard to find 48P pinions. A simple rule of thumb that i learned to follow for motors on 2S, if you want fast (between 45 and 60MPH), stay between 4000KV and 5000KV, and, if you want a bit slower (between 25 and 40MPH), stay between 3000 and 4000KV, that way, you can gear it more for the speed you are looking for, without overheating the motor. For example, the one you linked, i have in my 2WD Slash, geared at 19/86, and it will easily do 50MPH on asphalt, and around 45 on dirt. I have the 3900KV i linked in a DR10, and, on 2S that car will easily do 45MPH on asphalt, with 17/81 gearing. The 3500KV i linked, i have in a Traxxas Bandit, with 17/86 gearing, and it easily does 40MPH on dirt, as long as the tires get grip. On asphalt, it will do 42MPH all day. Oddly, a 3300KV, in my Arrma Fury, with 17/87 gearing will do just about 2MPH slower than the Bandit, but, with a 3100KV motor, will only do around 28MPH. Now, on all of mine, I'm running either the 10BL120 ESC, or the Reedy 120A ESC, except for on my DR10 and ProSC10, which are running 60A Reedy ESC's, and, with the same KV motor, and similar gearing, i get pretty much the same speed no matter the vehicle, give or take a couple MPH.

My Arrma Raider XL has a BLX80 ESC and running that thing on the stock 7 cell Ni-Mh pack was a bit much for me, I dialed it's speed back by 33% to keep it under control. That's why I thought the HW 10BL60 would work with a vehicle that is nearly 25% lighter then then my raider.

Your Raider should have the BLX85 motor in it, which is 3600KV. I have that same motor in my restored Raider XL: https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/raider-xl-blx-restoration-rebuild.61676/ and, on 2S, it will do just under 40MPH, but, on 3S, will do over 50MPH, which is why, for your RC10GT, i would stick with a 3300 or 3500, or 3900 at maximum. The 3300KV would give you roughly the same speed as the Raider, maybe a little less, and, anything over that is just going to make it faster.

 

[Sixtysixdeuce]

One thing to watch for with those cheapo motors is the motor shaft size. Most are 3MM, which is what most pinions are, but, some are 5MM, which can make it hard to find 48P pinions.

The standard GT spur is 32P, not 48

It's easy to fit the GT with other spurs, though. My Losi .26 powered GT has a 48t 1M spur.

 

[biggman100]

The standard GT spur is 32P, not 48

It's easy to fit the GT with other spurs, though. My Losi .26 powered GT has a 48t 1M spur.

Oh, ok. I dont mess with nitro, and never really have, and, back when that car was popular, i was mainly running Tamiya and Kyosho, so, i dont actually know a lot about the car he has. My first Associated was around 2014, and was an SC10 4X4 kit. I look so little at anything nitro or gas, i didnt even know they made RC cars with those engines back then. I thought only big planes came with them. The most i know about nitro and gas is that they are loud, messy, annoying, the fuel is expensive, they are never as fast as comparable electrics, and they have to be tinkered with all the time to make them run right.

 

[ajdragon]

Hi

Thanks biggman100 for the links. I just wish there was some good documentation on chewsing the right type of Brushless systems for the type of RC car you have.

 

[biggman100]

Hi

Thanks biggman100 for the links. I just wish there was some good documentation on chewsing the right type of Brushless systems for the type of RC car you have.

I know how you feel. Everything i learned, i either picked up with help from guys on here, or through trial and error, which can get expensive. The manufacturers are helpful, but, since nothing is standardized, even that takes time digging through specs and data sheets, and hoping you get it right, which is another reason i stick strictly with HW and Reedy. It took me long enough going through specs from just those two to figure out what works with what, and all my stuff is 1/10TH scale that is only run on 2S. It would really drive me insane having to go back and figure out what works best with say 1/18Th or 1/7TH scale, or, going the opposite way, with 1/12TH or 1/14TH scale. With my 1:1 race cars, there are charts that are easy to follow, that make it somewhat easy to know what works with what. Setup still plays a part, but, its a lot less complicated most of the time than RC stuff seems to be.

 

[ajdragon]

Hi

Back when the RC10GTFORUM still existed there was a member by the name of Frost Racing and he had a site where he explained everything about RC cars, when I say everything I mean everything, He had articles covering on-road cars, off-road car, tires, motors, engines, caster, camber, squat, roll, wight distribution, how best to set up you car for a on-road, and a off-road, and how to tell what type of track your driving on. You could have made a RC CARS FOR DUMMIES book from what he posted, and when he said he was retiring and closing down his site I printed every article he had and setup all of my RCs back then using those articles, and of course 13 years ago during a move I lost all of the articles, and I have been kick my self in the but ever since then, because now a days you can not find info like that anymore.

I did find this chart from 2010 here on the forum, and am hoping to find a updated version somewhere.

 

[Sixtysixdeuce]

The most i know about nitro and gas is that they are loud, messy, annoying, the fuel is expensive, they are never as fast as comparable electrics, and they have to be tinkered with all the time to make them run right.

Mostly true, except that a good nitro can certainly run with brushless, unless we're talking ultimate top speed, as nitro engines typically redline at 32,000-35,000 RPM. I've got an OFNA Ultra Comp with an LRP ZR-32 engine (4.3 horsepower) that has yet to be beaten by a BL 1/8 buggy up to its 62 mph top speed. Same with my OS .12 TZ powered RC10GT2 vs other 2wd STs and buggies.

Of course, today, the unpopularity in sub-1/8 scale nitro has caused stagnation in engine development and resulted in very few good options for small block engines. On-road still has some grip in the market, but those engines aren't really the best choice for off road kits, and they're expensive. The 1.75 horsepower 45k RPM redline O.S. Speed 12 is over $600, and it's rear exhaust, so have to reconfigure that as well, since GTs and GT2s are set up for side exhaust.

I'm very familiar with the GT, been running them since 2001, have 2 black tubs, 5 blue tubs and two GT2s. Only one is brushless converted.

I actually plan to start producing these conversion mounts for the blue tub GT very soon, just need to get a fixture made for my Fadal 4020 and look over the 21k line post process code to make sure there aren't any machine-crashing Easter eggs in it. The 3D printed version worked out fine dimensionally but wouldn't be sufficiently strong; they will be 7075 or 2024 aluminum

 

[ajdragon]

Hi

I went ahead and got the Goolrc 3650 3500kv motor, I did some extra searching and supposedly it is a 62amp motor.

Also would this power analyzer good investment. HTRC 150A High Precision RC Watt Meter Power Analyzer Battery Voltage Amp Meter

 

[Greywolf74]

Hi

I went ahead and got the Goolrc 3650 3500kv motor, I did some extra searching and supposedly it is a 62amp motor.

Also would this power analyzer good investment. HTRC 150A High Precision RC Watt Meter Power Analyzer Battery Voltage Amp Meter

I put one of those on my Kraton 8S and it fried it within 5 minutes. Theyre junk imo. Id recommend getting something more like Hyperion eMeterII datalogger