Belt Drive 4wd (racer) Do they exist anymore?

[CertifiedMike]

Oh man. I do love the banter. But if you know. You know. Whip is a thing. Maybe your car is too slow? HA Or not torque-ee enough? Just giving you poop.

But I'd love for you to expand on "makes more sense". Prove it. Or diss-prove it? IDK. Plead your case.

Maybe we need to get RC Car Action to make a comparison. Or Amain. Or anyone with the money and knowledge and time and can post on Youtube. I'd love to hear it. I'd love to test it myself. But...life.

This is not directed at you, but there is this company. Gates. Gates Rubber Company. Denver, CO. They do all things heavy load belt drives, and more. From Motos, to cars (think timing belt, engine stuff), to bicycles. Like all the things. The tech is there. The reason for the post is why isn't anybody using it? From a mainstream standpoint. Why drive shaft? Especially if things are NOT on dirt these days?

The cars I list above were for dirt and they were belt. That was really the only option for off road. And it was messy dirt. Not this blue goove clay stuff. Do you see the tires on the old school YZ-10 and AE RC10T re-re's? cus the terrain called for it. You'd be last place in a race on a blue groove track with those tires.

I pretty much want to buy the Yokomo right now. But...life.

I think the part that makes sense is for racers who like to change diff oils 3 times a night etc... the option isn't fast and easy like it can be with a shaft drive.
A blown shaft might take you out of a heat but a blown belt might cost you 5he night.
There ARE disadvantages imo.

 

[Littlemotor]

Oh man. I do love the banter. But if you know. You know. Whip is a thing. Maybe your car is too slow? HA Or not torque-ee enough? Just giving you poop.

But I'd love for you to expand on "makes more sense". Prove it. Or diss-prove it? IDK. Plead your case.

Maybe we need to get RC Car Action to make a comparison. Or Amain. Or anyone with the money and knowledge and time and can post on Youtube. I'd love to hear it. I'd love to test it myself. But...life.

This is not directed at you, but there is this company. Gates. Gates Rubber Company. Denver, CO. They do all things heavy load belt drives, and more. From Motos, to cars (think timing belt, engine stuff), to bicycles. Like all the things. The tech is there. The reason for the post is why isn't anybody using it? From a mainstream standpoint. Why drive shaft? Especially if things are NOT on dirt these days?

The cars I list above were for dirt and they were belt. That was really the only option for off road. And it was messy dirt. Not this blue goove clay stuff. Do you see the tires on the old school YZ-10 and AE RC10T re-re's? cus the terrain called for it. You'd be last place in a race on a blue groove track with those tires.

I pretty much want to buy the Yokomo right now. But...life.

If you re-read my first post here-I was supporting the capability of belts… and especially on-road. Also-I shouldn’t need to explain “more sense”, lol..

 

[sylentk]

for the sc10 it was covered
View attachment 205955

ultimate rc (rip a great channel) has a video on it

This is what I'm talking about. Why has that been abandoned? I'd totally hit that.

If you re-read my first post here-I was supporting the capability of belts… and especially on-road. Also-I shouldn’t need to explain “more sense”, lol..

Ha, well I guess you do, because I'm not getting it.

Why or how is shaft better than belt. Prove it. I don't think you can. Off road. 4x.

Look, the on roads carpets are using it. And they are as effective as eff. I've driven one. Have you?

 

[paytonimusrex]

This is what I'm talking about. Why has that been abandoned? I'd totally hit that.

I think it’s mostly to do with reliability with racing off road on dirt surfaces and bringing weight down, have the belt adds to the complexity of the drivetrain and then covering it adds weight, where you could have the simple driveshaft system which also makes for some really quick servicing as well, I think both have advantages and disadvantages it more so depends on the surface type you are racing on

 

[CertifiedMike]

This is what I'm talking about. Why has that been abandoned? I'd totally hit that.

This is another reason why I chose to restore rather than buy a new 4x4.
I really like belt drive systems. Maybe my opinion will change after more time and new motors but kyoshos old mid slipper system sucked and I still had no prob on carpet.
I agree its a design that shouldn't be forgotten.

 

[paytonimusrex]

for example on my b74.2, 4 screws an my slipper clutch is out

also the same with my tekno sct, 4 screws and my center diff is removed from the car for servicing, I think it also could be a space thing on the chassis as well

 

[sylentk]

I think the part that makes sense is for racers who like to change diff oils 3 times a night etc... the option isn't fast and easy like it can be with a shaft drive.
A blown shaft might take you out of a heat but a blown belt might cost you 5he night.
There ARE disadvantages imo.

Thank you for that.

I am not one to change my diff fluids like that. Don't get me old school talking about ball bearing diffs.

Being able to adjust your diff with an allen key was pretty significantly easy compared to changing the oil.

But I'm old skool.

 

[paytonimusrex]

I think belts where a cool design choice both I think it was moved away from because of their being advantages using a drive shaft because other wise they would have kept developing it more for racing applications

 

[CertifiedMike]

This is what I'm talking about. Why has that been abandoned? I'd totally hit that.



Ha, well I guess you do, because I'm not getting it.

Why or how is shaft better than belt. Prove it. I don't think you can. Off road. 4x.

Look, the on roads carpets are using it. And they are as effective as eff. I've driven one. Have you?

The big difference we're talking about is where/how a car is to be used.
A belt needs to be covered outdoor dirt track. Indoors, no cover required.
The shaft system can run while covered in mud!
A belt drive racer is unlikely to see "covered in mud" and if so, yes, can be covered at weight cost.
There is no clear winner, just personal choice imo.
One HUGE undeniable advantage to belts is the noise. There isn't any!

for example on my b74.2, 4 screws an my slipper clutch is out

also the same with my tekno sct, 4 screws and my center diff is removed from the car for servicing, I think it also could be a space thing on the chassis as well

The slipper design is usually simple enough now.
I can't remember who was using a slipper with "pins" in it??? It was NOT a good design imo!
Plenty of companies making dirt option cars and carpet option cars and the center diff vs slipper is a main difference in almost all of them.
4 screws and 2 little slipper discs to replace is fast and easy!

 

[paytonimusrex]

yeah way more simpler imo instead of having belt and slipper to deal with lol

 

[CertifiedMike]

Thank you for that.

I am not one to change my diff fluids like that. Don't get me old school talking about ball bearing diffs.

Being able to adjust your diff with an allen key was pretty significantly easy compared to changing the oil.

But I'm old skool.

I ran ball diffs too. Still a viable option on a 2s track imo but new guys will tell you a brushless setup will roast a ball diff in minutes.
My mid will start with a gear diff rear, one way front. if I hate it, ball diff is already on the bench!

I think belts where a cool design choice both I think it was moved away from because of their being advantages using a drive shaft because other wise they would have kept developing it more for racing applications

I agree and disagree. Belts ARE race oriented and DO require care and maintenance. A belt shield letting rocks in will almost def break you.
You're not gonna run a belt out in the dirt without regular teardown maintenance. Most ppl won't do it and don't like it.
A belt system won't sell to mainstream buyers.
Compound that with the way (use Arrma as example) makes 3s parts interchange with 4s parts and half the hardwate is the same, shocks and parts all fit multiple models.
You loose ALL that when you toss a belt drive in the mix.
Kyosho actually did well making parts that would (sort of ) fit between models, belt and shaft, 2wd and 4 sometimes too.
Companies loose money when they start getting to intricate.
Thats why every Arrma car and truck feels slightly "familiar". They are actually tge same cars or parts.
Its about profit imo.
Racing isn't big anymore so no one is investing/inovation like tgat bad ass N110!!!
innovation taken from 1/8 racing and BAM! There you have new AND different! They will belt drive that car I'll bet!

yeah way more simpler imo instead of having belt and slipper to deal with lol

I have both!!!

 

[paytonimusrex]

imo they innovated to the point where they really can’t go much further, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it type of thing

 

[CertifiedMike]

imo they innovated to the point where they really can’t go much further, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it type of thing

Belt drive avail or not, I'm buying one of those N110's!!!
How long before the 4x4 N114 is out???

 

[paytonimusrex]

ask them lmao

 

[CertifiedMike]

ask them lmao

Omg! My g/f would staple my n*ts to the "not shock towers" on that thing, drive them both out in the woods and then make me go find them!
I'm pushing my luck right now!
I have a long shopping list already!
A new car and then its 4x4 twin???!!!
OMG! I can see the smoke pouring from her eyes and I'm only thinling about it!

 

[Littlemotor]

This is what I'm talking about. Why has that been abandoned? I'd totally hit that.



Ha, well I guess you do, because I'm not getting it.

Why or how is shaft better than belt. Prove it. I don't think you can. Off road. 4x.

Look, the on roads carpets are using it. And they are as effective as eff. I've driven one. Have you?

You clearly wanna argue just to argue. I’ve driven it ALL. Banter is fine, but mindless arguing is something I’m not gonna participate in, and saying “prove it” isn’t gonna trigger me least of all into having a debate over something that’s 1,000,000% common sense to anyone who’s been doing this seriously for even a year.. -let alone if they have any mechanical aptitude/ability what so ever.. or have been doing it for 35+ years seriously lol.. or all of the above.

Enjoy your stay fella.

 

[Lumikko]

Belts were the winning formula for something like 10–15 years. Belts can handle power just fine. If a 2.5 mm belt doesn’t do it, switch to 3 mm, or 3.5 mm… until the strength is sufficient. Reliability was obviously not a concern since the top drivers in the world all ran belts. The requirement of maintenance is also not something they would mind: performance comes first, even if it means more work for the mechanic.

I had a Yokomo ’94 YZ-10 in the mid-90s and I have an AE B74.2 now, so I have first-hand experience with buggies that were the top animals of their time.

I believe the primary reasons for switching to shafts in off-road racing are as follows:

Shaft drives offer more room for tuning the chassis flex. Chassis flex is a pretty common setup option these days, and doing it with a belt could easily cause binding or skipping.

As a downside, shaft drives are less efficient, but this has not been a problem for a long time, because brushless motors and lipo batteries provide more power and runtime than necessary.

Combining these factors is, IMO, the key to understanding why the overwhelming majority of race wheelers had belts back then and why the popularity has flipped to favor shaft drive on modern buggies.

———

I’m not that much into touring cars, but the local fast guys have said belt drive is preferable because it has less backlash when switching between accelerating and decelerating, and the endpoints of the backlash are softer. They say it makes a noticeable difference when cornering. This sounds reasonable to me as shaft drives do have quite a bit of free rotation of the wheels back and forth before engaging the motor.

 

[Speed Chaser]

I know a guy in another rc forum who is a big fan of belts and even wanted Tenth Technology to make a belt version of their buggy. I personally prefer shafts, they are my go-to for drift, off-road, etc. Now for racing, I mainly have used belts

 

[paytonimusrex]

Belts were the winning formula for something like 10–15 years. Belts can handle power just fine. If a 2.5 mm belt doesn’t do it, switch to 3 mm, or 3.5 mm… until the strength is sufficient. Reliability was obviously not a concern since the top drivers in the world all ran belts. The requirement of maintenance is also not something they would mind: performance comes first, even if it means more work for the mechanic.

I had a Yokomo ’94 YZ-10 in the mid-90s and I have an AE B74.2 now, so I have first-hand experience with the buggies that were the top animals of their time.

I believe the primary reasons for switching to shafts in off-road racing are as follows:

Shaft drives offer more room for tuning the chassis flex. Chassis flex is a pretty common setup option these days, and doing it with a belt could easily cause binding or skipping.

As a downside, shaft drives are less efficient, but this has not been a problem for a long time, because brushless motors and lipo batteries provide more power and runtime than necessary.

Combining these factors is, IMO, the key to understanding why the overwhelming majority of race wheelers had belts back then and why the popularity has flipped to favor shaft drive on modern buggies.

———

I’m not that much into touring cars, but the local fast guys have said belt drive is preferable because it has less backlash when switching between accelerating and decelerating, and the endpoints of the backlash are softer. They say it makes a noticeable difference when cornering. This sounds reasonable to me as shaft drives do have quite a bit of free rotation of the wheels back and forth before engaging the motor.

I enjoyed reading this thank you

 

[Horatio]

I ran belts and shafts at National level in the late 90's right through to about 2010. Both can work really well on or off road.

Off road, I did run a Tenth Technology Predator for a season - but it was very fragile. Without a doubt, it was more efficient than ANY belt drive and faster in a straight line, both in terms of acceleration and top speed. But to finish first, first you have to finish. Shame.

I have images of the shaft Vs belt being put to the test on a Dyno with meters measuring the current draw. Shaft won. Nuff said.

On road, Shaft drives were free-er and seemed better suited to Stock class were power was limited. But weight distribution seemed better on belt drive. I would argue as brushless power gave all the power we needed without concern, the benefits of weight distribution and the way power gets laid down made belts more popular for 1/10th on road.

The Team Associated TC3 was converted into an off road racer with the eye wateringly expensive Durango buggies. The rest is history. Shafties off road became the norm after years of belt drives. In a twist of irony - Durango turned into Arrma. Schumacher stayed with belts - because why fix what isn't broken?

I had my best race results with a Cat 3000. Awesome car.

Belts required more maintenance. PITA actually. Fluff on carpets - chippings off road.