Ugh...Tariffs

[9x19]

I don't drink coffee either.
I understand your point.
I feel like lettuce can be grown in a 3rd grade classroom by children.
I can live without the 700% tariff on rice or whatever it is. I can live without the tariff that is on everything in my life now because there is a tariff on that rice.
I'm ok with eating local from here on out too.
Taxing us all for a few industries to profit more is crap.

This isn't shifting manufacturing to US. Its moving to Taiwan.
How long before this instigates a war between Taiwan and China I wonder.

If China was smart, it would drop all its prices to every other country. The US labor rates will prevent US manufacturing from competing with China's labor rates and product prices. China has easy access to cheap materials too. US can't compete with that either. Mayhe we should have thought about supply chains before we pissed off most of the planet??? Is the US is planning to start the whole of the reindustrial revolution? How long will that take?
How long do they think we can afford $8000 US built TVs? We will be the only ppl on thr planet buying them at that price. Everyone else on the planet will keep right on doing what they do with everyone but the US.
We've been buying things on this 'global economy' for a few decades now. Electronics have been coming from overseas since I've been alive anyways. Suddenly this is an issue.

RICH MANS SCAM

This isn't going to work.

He's going to get the whole damned country 'cancelled'.

You've been the target of the Rich Man's Scam your whole life... manufacture goods off shore with cheap labor and sell it to the people here who lost their jobs because of that move. If the FedGov gave a darn about the working class they would have had tariffs in place from the jump and manufacturing would have never left. Likewise, wages wouldn't be so depressed because there would be enough competition here for workers that wages would have risen with the cost of goods.

Nothing that took years to break will ever be fixed in a month... so we shouldn't even try, just keep our heads down (necks exposed) and push the wheel.

 

[Doom!]

I can't get to excited about the Tariff's, there has been an excuse of some sort or another for the past 20 years for prices to keep rising unrealistically. Just gotta roll with the punches.

 

[CertifiedMike]

You've been the target of the Rich Man's Scam your whole life... manufacture goods off shore with cheap labor and sell it to the people here who lost their jobs because of that move. If the FedGov gave a darn about the working class they would have had tariffs in place from the jump and manufacturing would have never left. Likewise, wages wouldn't be so depressed because there would be enough competition here for workers that wages would have risen with the cost of goods.

Nothing that took years to break will ever be fixed in a month... so we shouldn't even try, just keep our heads down (necks exposed) and push the wheel.

Not give up, not give in.
We DO need to stop being delusional about the stuggles of the American worker though.
Wr all act as though there isn't enough money. As if there is no trillionare at the end of these chains of profit.
When there IS no more to give, when we finally come to terms with the idea that its not important to support 3% of the planets dreams with 97% of the planets labor... then it will chsnge.
The greed machine is the problem. Not the efforts of the American worker.
We ARE working hard enough. We are being misled by the greediest scumbags on the planet.
The money is already here. The rich just refuse to invest it back into the country. Instead, its being forced upon us to do it... again.

 

[WutUp Clegg]

You've been the target of the Rich Man's Scam your whole life... manufacture goods off shore with cheap labor and sell it to the people here who lost their jobs because of that move. If the FedGov gave a darn about the working class they would have had tariffs in place from the jump and manufacturing would have never left. Likewise, wages wouldn't be so depressed because there would be enough competition here for workers that wages would have risen with the cost of goods.

Nothing that took years to break will ever be fixed in a month... so we shouldn't even try, just keep our heads down (necks exposed) and push the wheel.

And that is exactly why other countries put such a high tariff on American products. They don' want their factories leaving. We missed that boat and now we are trying to get American production back. It has been decades of letting our factories go, so it will be a pretty hard hit to get them back. China owns a majority of the factories that we get our products from. They also own about 10% of our debt, so it might be a really good idea to get some of our production plants back. It's not a good idea to be in debt to a communist country that has so much power. For those who are not happy with our tariffs, have you seen what other countries were taxing our goods at? Why would anyone accept to be pushed around like that. Especially when you are a country as big as we are.

Bottom line is, I'm not happy about prices going up. It really is taking a toll on me. However, like mentioned earlier, at least I'm seeing a reason for it. Before, I have been seeing all these price increases for the dumbest reason. $5 for gas, $8 for a dozen eggs, $200 for a generic brand truck tire, and $4 for a 2x4 stud is just ridiculous. The stuff we get from China is just luxury items and/or items we don't really need. Therefore, I can deal with that.

 

[WutUp Clegg]

Not give up, not give in.
We DO need to stop being delusional about the stuggles of the American worker though.
Wr all act as though there isn't enough money. As if there is no trillionare at the end of these chains of profit.
When there IS no more to give, when we finally come to terms with the idea that its not important to support 3% of the planets dreams with 97% of the planets labor... then it will chsnge.
The greed machine is the problem. Not the efforts of the American worker.
We ARE working hard enough. We are being misled by the greediest scumbags on the planet.
The money is already here. The rich just refuse to invest it back into the country. Instead, its being forced upon us to do it... again.

As I mentioned before, I don't have a political side, so I will look at everything from both angles. Before decisions are made, should we take at least a few months to see where it goes? Some people were not happy with the last guy, but his supporters asked to be patient and see where it goes. I believe the same should be done here. Right now, there are just theories on how the higher tariffs will turn out. Higher tariffs were put on everyone who was deemed as being unfair. So far, over 50 of those countries are negotiating tariff prices with us. That's a plus! If you remember, this new administration offered to have no tariffs with countries that did the same. No country took him up on the offer.

I still think Mexico should take advantage of this and bring manufacturing to Mexico. That would greatly benefit their economy.

 

[CertifiedMike]

And that is exactly why other countries put such a high tariff on American products. They don' want their factories leaving. We missed that boat and now we are trying to get American production back. It has been decades of letting our factories go, so it will be a pretty hard hit to get them back. China owns a majority of the factories that we get our products from. They also own about 10% of our debt, so it might be a really good idea to get some of our production plants back. It's not a good idea to be in debt to a communist country that has so much power. For those who are not happy with our tariffs, have you seen what other countries were taxing our goods at? Why would anyone accept to be pushed around like that. Especially when you are a country as big as we are.

Bottom line is, I'm not happy about prices going up. It really is taking a toll on me. However, like mentioned earlier, at least I'm seeing a reason for it. Before, I have been seeing all these price increases for the dumbest reason. $5 for gas, $8 for a dozen eggs, $200 for a generic brand truck tire, and $4 for a 2x4 stud is just ridiculous. The stuff we get from China is just luxury items and/or items we don't really need. Therefore, I can deal with that.

Have we actually put any infrastructure in place to support these factories?
Why did we decide to raise tariffs and THEN build factories? All this nonsense could be avoided. Supply chains left untouched or at least changed to internal. Instead we have chaos.


I watched toilet paper become the hottest commodity on earth.
We are overcharged for everything.

We are being scammed, yet again.

I agree that we should not be in debt with our enemies. I did not sign that deal nor did the rest of us. Clearly, none of us profit from such a deal other than a few rich shady scumbags... THEY need to fix this. Laws should be made so this can NEVER happen again.

If investing in American factories was ever economically viable, Elan, SOMEONE would already be doing it.

Are these factories that WE all are paying for going to be mailing US checks directly from the profits?

Again, the break comes between profit and loss.
Its ALL our problem to fix... 6 years later the companies are selling us sh!t end user agreements and fighting for no right to repair bills.
GM and their bailouts... CEOs goes on vacation. Now the cars can ONLY spy on us but if that info gets into the hands of a private mechanic, they will stalk and kill my family and friends in dark parking lots. SCAM THAT EVERY AMERICAN PAID FOR, LED BY POTUS.

Did GM pay ANYONE back for that or just screw us a bit more?

This all happened, we paid for it.

Rich ppl need to dig deep and fix the mess they created by skimming off the backs of us for decades without reinvesting a dime.

THEY put us here.
I bet not 1 out of work GM factory worker left saying, "Oh yeah, I'm very happy to not have a job while the stock holders send my job overseas. I hope THEY don't struggle this week."

WE didn't do this. WE should be taxed for the sh!t behavior and greed of the stockholders who voted to put us here. Tax THEM directly.
I am all for fixing the problem. Our goverment has just saved a few trullion with program cuts from DOGE.
Where is THAT money going?
Why isn't our govt funding any of this?

Why could the 'smartest man in high tech' see through this problem? He could have profitted huge from thus if there was actually any money in it. The money is in the scam and emergency funds and bailouts. Raising prices just because their is an issue.

When there is a war and fuel supplies are cut, shipping costs go up so prices fir everything go up too, right?
When the war is over, do the prices go back down again?
The gas prices might go back down but the cost of a loaf of bread remains at that new premium forever.

I still can't understand why everyone feels like its OUR duty to make sure rich ppl get 8 Mc Mansions this year instead of only 7.

 

[Greywolf74]

How is Hobbywing not a big dog? They have like 3/4 of the market when you count oem rebrands.

I believe he was referring to quality, not quantity. Why buy a HW combo when you can get a Tekin combo for roughly the same price?

And it's actually working!

It is starting to, but its early in the process yet.

What deals has struck with other countries?

We are now in negotiations with the UK and India as both are willing to de-escalate the situation and talk sense.

This isn't shifting manufacturing to US. Its moving to Taiwan.
How long before this instigates a war between Taiwan and China I wonder.

While it's true that some manufacturing has moved from China to Taiwan, far more is moving to the US than Taiwan. That being said, companies are now diversifying their manufacturing more and more to other countries as well. This is a good thing for all the countries involved.
Here's a list of some of the companies planning US manufacturing in the near future.

Pharmaceutical Industry​

• Roche: The Swiss pharmaceutical giant plans to invest $50 billion in U.S. manufacturing over the next five years. This investment aims to mitigate potential tariffs and will create over 12,000 jobs across multiple states, including Kentucky, New Jersey, and California.
• Novartis: Another Swiss drugmaker, Novartis, has announced a $23 billion investment to build and expand 10 U.S. facilities, including six manufacturing plants and a research and development site. This move is in direct response to renewed threats of drug import duties.
• Eli Lilly: The American pharmaceutical company plans to establish four new manufacturing sites in the U.S., focusing on active pharmaceutical ingredients and small molecule chemical synthesis. This expansion will more than double its U.S. manufacturing investment to $50 billion.

Technology and Semiconductor Industry​

• Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC): TSMC has committed an additional $100 billion to its U.S. operations, including plans for three new fabrication plants, two advanced packaging facilities, and a major R&D center. This investment adds to the $65 billion previously allocated to its Arizona operations.
• Apple: Apple announced a $500 billion investment in the U.S. over the next four years, aiming to create 20,000 jobs. The investment includes building a new manufacturing facility in Houston, Texas, dedicated to servers for Apple's AI program.
• Nvidia: The tech company plans to invest hundreds of billions of dollars in the U.S. supply chain over the next four years, shifting from Asia due to tariff threats. Nvidia aims to manufacture a significant portion of its electronics in the U.S., leveraging TSMC's facilities in Arizona.

Automotive Industry​

• Hyundai Motor Group: The South Korean automaker has outlined a $21 billion investment in the U.S. from 2025 to 2028. This move is part of Hyundai's strategy to expand its operations and grow its American workforce in light of anticipated auto industry tariffs.

Cra-Z-Art: The New Jersey-based toy company announced a 50% increase in its U.S. production capacity to combat the cost of tariffs on imported goods from China and other countries.

I'm sure there are more and will be more yet to come, but these things take time to come to fruition.

As for China and Taiwan going to war, That's been in the making since 1949, and it had nothing to do originally with tariffs. That's why they have been a cold war ally with the US since the 1950's. So if that happens, it's just China using it as an excuse to do what they wanted to do since 1949.

I don't drink coffee either.
I understand your point.
I feel like lettuce can be grown in a 3rd grade classroom by children.
I can live without the 700% tariff on rice or whatever it is. I can live without the tariff that is on everything in my life now because there is a tariff on that rice.
I'm ok with eating local from here on out too.
Taxing us all for a few industries to profit more is crap.

If China was smart, it would drop all its prices to every other country. The US labor rates will prevent US manufacturing from competing with China's labor rates and product prices. China has easy access to cheap materials too. US can't compete with that either. Mayhe we should have thought about supply chains before we pissed off most of the planet??? Is the US is planning to start the whole of the reindustrial revolution? How long will that take?
How long do they think we can afford $8000 US built TVs? We will be the only ppl on thr planet buying them at that price. Everyone else on the planet will keep right on doing what they do with everyone but the US.
We've been buying things on this 'global economy' for a few decades now. Electronics have been coming from overseas since I've been alive anyways. Suddenly this is an issue.

RICH MANS SCAM

This isn't going to work.

He's going to get the whole damned country 'cancelled'.

I'm not trying to be offensive, but I don't think you understand how the global economy works. China is sh*tting its pants right now. Their economy is tanking, and their young people are starting to get more and more aggressive with passive forms of resistance. They can not stand very long in the overall scheme of things during a trade war with us. They are arrogant and prideful, so they may choose to push the self-destruct button on their country's economy before they ever negotiate with us for reasonable trade agreements, but you know what? F*ck those commie bastards. I hope they do crumble. To me, it's a win-win either way. Americans have gotten way too comfy dealing with communists, imo. Other countries are going to be in the same boat if they don't negotiate, so I don't think you'll see much in the way of sustained tariff wars with anyone else outside maybe China.

Here's why we have the upper hand in trade wars and why this will be short-lived in the end.

1.​

• Countries like China, Germany, Mexico, and South Korea rely heavily on exports to the U.S.
• When the U.S. imposes tariffs, it raises the cost of their exports, reducing demand and hurting their manufacturing sectors.

2.​

• The U.S. economy is more consumer-driven and less dependent on exports than most trade rivals.
• Other countries are export-dependent, so tariffs hit them harder and faster.
• The U.S. also has stronger access to capital and more tools to absorb short-term inflation or supply chain shifts.

3.​

• Most U.S. trade partners run surpluses — they sell more to us than they buy from us.
• A tariff war means they lose more export income, while the U.S. simply substitutes some imports or boosts local production.

4.​

• When U.S. tariffs stay in place, companies begin to permanently move supply chains out of countries like China.
• That means long-term damage even after tariffs end, because the business might never come back.

5.

• Many countries have weaker currencies and less global brand dominance, so they can’t easily absorb the shock of lost sales.
• If their economies slow, they face capital flight, inflation, and domestic unrest — much harder to manage than in the U.S.

Summary:​

Factor	Why the U.S. Has the Upper Hand

Size of economy

Largest global market — others depend on access to it

Export reliance

U.S. is less dependent on exports than its rivals

Trade surplus leverage

Tariff pain hits exporters more than importers

Supply chain shifts

Can permanently reduce dependency on hostile or unstable regions

Financial flexibility

Stronger dollar, deeper capital markets, more tools

 

[CertifiedMike]

I believe he was referring to quality, not quantity. Why buy a HW combo when you can get a Tekin combo for roughly the same price?


It is starting to, but its early in the process yet.


We are now in negotiations with the UK and India as both are willing to de-escalate the situation and talk sense.


While it's true that some manufacturing has moved from China to Taiwan, far more is moving to the US than Taiwan. That being said, companies are now diversifying their manufacturing more and more to other countries as well. This is a good thing for all the countries involved.
Here's a list of some of the companies planning US manufacturing in the near future.

Pharmaceutical Industry​

• Roche: The Swiss pharmaceutical giant plans to invest $50 billion in U.S. manufacturing over the next five years. This investment aims to mitigate potential tariffs and will create over 12,000 jobs across multiple states, including Kentucky, New Jersey, and California.
• Novartis: Another Swiss drugmaker, Novartis, has announced a $23 billion investment to build and expand 10 U.S. facilities, including six manufacturing plants and a research and development site. This move is in direct response to renewed threats of drug import duties.
• Eli Lilly: The American pharmaceutical company plans to establish four new manufacturing sites in the U.S., focusing on active pharmaceutical ingredients and small molecule chemical synthesis. This expansion will more than double its U.S. manufacturing investment to $50 billion.

Technology and Semiconductor Industry​

• Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC): TSMC has committed an additional $100 billion to its U.S. operations, including plans for three new fabrication plants, two advanced packaging facilities, and a major R&D center. This investment adds to the $65 billion previously allocated to its Arizona operations.
• Apple: Apple announced a $500 billion investment in the U.S. over the next four years, aiming to create 20,000 jobs. The investment includes building a new manufacturing facility in Houston, Texas, dedicated to servers for Apple's AI program.
• Nvidia: The tech company plans to invest hundreds of billions of dollars in the U.S. supply chain over the next four years, shifting from Asia due to tariff threats. Nvidia aims to manufacture a significant portion of its electronics in the U.S., leveraging TSMC's facilities in Arizona.

Automotive Industry​

• Hyundai Motor Group: The South Korean automaker has outlined a $21 billion investment in the U.S. from 2025 to 2028. This move is part of Hyundai's strategy to expand its operations and grow its American workforce in light of anticipated auto industry tariffs.

Cra-Z-Art: The New Jersey-based toy company announced a 50% increase in its U.S. production capacity to combat the cost of tariffs on imported goods from China and other countries.

I'm sure there are more and will be more yet to come, but these things take time to come to fruition.

As for China and Taiwan going to war, That's been in the making since 1949, and it had nothing to do originally with tariffs. That's why they have been a cold war ally with the US since the 1950's. So if that happens, it's just China using it as an excuse to do what they wanted to do since 1949.


I'm not trying to be offensive, but I don't think you understand how the global economy works. China is sh*tting its pants right now. Their economy is tanking, and their young people are starting to get more and more aggressive with passive forms of resistance. They can not stand very long in the overall scheme of things during a trade war with us. They are arrogant and prideful, so they may choose to push the self-destruct button on their country's economy before they ever negotiate with us for reasonable trade agreements, but you know what? F*ck those commie bastards. I hope they do crumble. To me, it's a win-win either way. Americans have gotten way too comfy dealing with communists, imo. Other countries are going to be in the same boat if they don't negotiate, so I don't think you'll see much in the way of sustained tariff wars with anyone else outside maybe China.

Here's why we have the upper hand in trade wars and why this will be short-lived in the end.

1.​

• Countries like China, Germany, Mexico, and South Korea rely heavily on exports to the U.S.
• When the U.S. imposes tariffs, it raises the cost of their exports, reducing demand and hurting their manufacturing sectors.

2.​

• The U.S. economy is more consumer-driven and less dependent on exports than most trade rivals.
• Other countries are export-dependent, so tariffs hit them harder and faster.
• The U.S. also has stronger access to capital and more tools to absorb short-term inflation or supply chain shifts.

3.​

• Most U.S. trade partners run surpluses — they sell more to us than they buy from us.
• A tariff war means they lose more export income, while the U.S. simply substitutes some imports or boosts local production.

4.​

• When U.S. tariffs stay in place, companies begin to permanently move supply chains out of countries like China.
• That means long-term damage even after tariffs end, because the business might never come back.

5.

• Many countries have weaker currencies and less global brand dominance, so they can’t easily absorb the shock of lost sales.
• If their economies slow, they face capital flight, inflation, and domestic unrest — much harder to manage than in the U.S.

Summary:​

Factor	Why the U.S. Has the Upper Hand

Size of economy

Largest global market — others depend on access to it

Export reliance

U.S. is less dependent on exports than its rivals

Trade surplus leverage

Tariff pain hits exporters more than importers

Supply chain shifts

Can permanently reduce dependency on hostile or unstable regions

Financial flexibility

Stronger dollar, deeper capital markets, more tools

I understand your points.
I think I'm not making myself clear. I believe 100% their IS a problem that needs addressing. There are 1000's.
I also believe a total revamp is the only way we will ever really fix it.
Its the way that we are addressing the issues that I have the problem with.
All these companies could have done this investing without any of the tariffs being juiced to 165% or whatever he did initially to inflate this situation to where it was. None of this crap thats happening right now needs to be happening. No trade war at all. Just an honest shift to better quality products from America.
The money for ALL these factories etc is already in the US. The investments could have happened at any time.
Instead, factories moved overseas until it came to this.
He was being TOTALLY unrealistic and even he is backing down now.
The whole thing with pissing off the planet because captain asshat is having a tantrum. THAT is the problem. This could have been handled by grown ups too.
He was the most powerful man in the world for 4 years and had a 4 year break and STILL failed to prepare us or anyone else for this.

Although I'm glad to see the money and investments, I fear the motivation behind multiple pharma companies investing in the US.
If there is ANY market in the US that is strong, its pharmacuticals.
I'm 1000% positive the last thing we need in the US are more drug companies.
We were pretty close to manditory vacs once already.

I am also hopeful with Hyundai... I wonder if GM will start manufacturing in the US instead of bolting imported car parts together and calling them American cars.

Just as the Chinese may be struggling, I believe Americans are already struggling too.

I don't believe the crisis is necessary.

 

[WutUp Clegg]

I understand your points.
I think I'm not making myself clear. I believe 100% their IS a problem that needs addressing. There are 1000's.
I also believe a total revamp is the only way we will ever really fix it.
Its the way that we are addressing the issues that I have the problem with.
All these companies could have done this investing without any of the tariffs being juiced to 165% or whatever he did initially to inflate this situation to where it was. None of this crap thats happening right now needs to be happening. No trade war at all. Just an honest shift to better quality products from America.
The money for ALL these factories etc is already in the US. The investments could have happened at any time.
Instead, factories moved overseas until it came to this.
He was being TOTALLY unrealistic and even he is backing down now.
The whole thing with pissing off the planet because captain asshat is having a tantrum. THAT is the problem. This could have been handled by grown ups too.
He was the most powerful man in the world for 4 years and had a 4 year break and STILL failed to prepare us or anyone else for this.

Although I'm glad to see the money and investments, I fear the motivation behind multiple pharma companies investing in the US.
If there is ANY market in the US that is strong, its pharmacuticals.
I'm 1000% positive the last thing we need in the US are more drug companies.
We were pretty close to manditory vacs once already.

I am also hopeful with Hyundai... I wonder if GM will start manufacturing in the US instead of bolting imported car parts together and calling them American cars.

Just as the Chinese may be struggling, I believe Americans are already struggling too.

I don't believe the crisis is necessary.

You're right. There shouldn't be a trade war. However, there is, and the US didn't start it. All these other countries jack up tariffs to distract their citizens from buying imported products. The US is telling everyone to play on the same playing field. China does not want this because it will make US products easier to afford over there. China is pushing to be the one and only manufacturing country in the world. I will never happen, but they are trying to take all they can. Also, China is extremely prideful. They believe they are bigger and stronger than the US. The US isn't the only one raising tariffs. China is also raising them really high. At the end of the day, although we will get some bumps and bruises, we can't allow another country to try and bully us around. It will only weaken us if we allowed it, which it has. That's why we need to fight back before it gets worse.

You mentioned that the US doesn't have the infrastructure for more plants. This is true. This is one reason why Californians are ticked off about gas cars being banned in 2035. We already have blackouts every year due to not having enough power. However, if the plants come back, they will help pay for the infrastructures. This is all part of their permit fees.

Billionaires will always be rich. There is nothing we can do about that. We can tax them 99%, but they will get their money back by taking it out on the workers. Less overtime, less benefits, less hours, less employees, and higher product prices. So, if they can continue to manufacture things here and it not costing them more for overhead, then they will stay. As they make more money, employees start to benefit from it.

Example: You make a million dollars a year with your company. Production costs and taxes have just gone up. You are not making $800K a year. You have already set your life up expecting one million. So, what do? You will do what you can to get some of that money back.

This whole tariff thing is much bigger than what can be explained in a chat room. I would really ask you to go and see who really started the tariff war. It wasn't the US. We just sat there and took in the sphincter the entire time.

 

[CertifiedMike]

My issue is not about if its fair or not. Its not fair, US should not be getting bullied.
My issue is, just as you pointed out, this is a decades old problem that MUST have been well known to DT during his 1st admin and he chose to not address it. Why not then?
Why not put a plan un place instead of causing complete chaos?
Why do we need to suck it up so Apple and their stockholders can continue to profit uninterupted?
I need for someone to explain how having Apple computers in the US is going to benefit me and my bank account.
Why do I need to pay for access to more expensive product in the future?
Is Apple planning to mail us all a check?
Any company can be inserted there. The point is not about Apple. Its about how we are expected to take a loss for rich ppls gains... again.
They already have the money and refuse to spend it. Since they won't spend, it falls on us?
I do not understand that mentality nor do I agree with it.
It is not our jobs to keep the rich rich.
If I suffer, so do they.

 

[WutUp Clegg]

My issue is not about if its fair or not. Its not fair, US should not be getting bullied.
My issue is, just as you pointed out, this is a decades old problem that MUST have been well known to DT during his 1st admin and he chose to not address it. Why not then?
Why not put a plan un place instead of causing complete chaos?
Why do we need to suck it up so Apple and their stockholders can continue to profit uninterupted?
I need for someone to explain how having Apple computers in the US is going to benefit me and my bank account.
Why do I need to pay for access to more expensive product in the future?
Is Apple planning to mail us all a check?
Any company can be inserted there. The point is not about Apple. Its about how we are expected to take a loss for rich ppls gains... again.
They already have the money and refuse to spend it. Since they won't spend, it falls on us?
I do not understand that mentality nor do I agree with it.
It is not our jobs to keep the rich rich.
If I suffer, so do they.

These are all good points and a lot of people are thinking the same thing. This is where we have to bust out the pen and paper and do some calculations. However, I will answer your first question about DT not taking actions in the first term. He talked about doing it the entire time he was in office. However, no president will make drastic moves in their first term when they plan of running for a second. They do all the little things in the first term. He knew that the tariff thing would cause a lot of friction, and it would take a bit for the fruits to be seen.

For the business side, look what happened to China. They were a not as powerful of a country until the manufacturing boom. Now they are one of the elites. The were only feared because of their population size. Now they are feared because of the weaponry.

So, we will keep using Apple as an example. Apple comes to the US. They dump millions into the infrastructure. They employ over a thousand people to work there. Now they need dozens of suppliers and contractors. Those suppliers and contractors will now have to employ more people and invest in expanding their business. Now there becomes a shortage of skilled workers so salaries start to go up to keep workers from leaving. The state and the feds stop looking for stupid ways to impose new taxes to fund their personal projects because of the extra money coming from the bigger/new businesses.

As for rich people suffering with us. That isn't going to happen. Trust me, I'm just as annoyed with it as you are. There's nothing we can do about it. I figured I can be mad and kick rocks or find a way for them to stop taking my money. The truth is, they don't even take in a huge salary from their business. They work out ways to have everything they do and buy to be paid for by the company. The richest of them take out personal loans to pay themselves but only take a salary the is big enough to pay the monthly payments on that loan. It's a lot cheaper to pay 5% on a loan than a 55% income tax.

Here's a prime example: I know a guy in San Diego who has a real estate business. He owns a lot of business complexes, upper level apartments, etc... He lives like a multi multi-millionaire. He has a huge mansion in La Jolla that is worth close to $10 million. However, his income, on paper, is only $120,000. That's because he learned to work the system. Everywhere he goes is paid for by the company due to it being "a business trip." Everything he buys is owned by the company, so the company pays for it. I asked how he gets the company to pay for his clothes and he said "it's my company uniform." His wife and kids are even on the payroll. Rich people know how to play the game.

 

[9x19]

IIRC, DT did enact a tariff on China in his first term, but it was a small one (and he was criticized for it), and then the next administration quietly continued it... This time DT is going big to get them to negotiate a more fair trade arrangement.

 

[WutUp Clegg]

IIRC, DT did enact a tariff on China in his first term, but it was a small one (and he was criticized for it), and then the next administration quietly continued it... This time DT is going big to get them to negotiate a more fair trade arrangement.

That is true. I forgot about that.

 

[CertifiedMike]

These are all good points and a lot of people are thinking the same thing. This is where we have to bust out the pen and paper and do some calculations. However, I will answer your first question about DT not taking actions in the first term. He talked about doing it the entire time he was in office. However, no president will make drastic moves in their first term when they plan of running for a second. They do all the little things in the first term. He knew that the tariff thing would cause a lot of friction, and it would take a bit for the fruits to be seen.

For the business side, look what happened to China. They were a not as powerful of a country until the manufacturing boom. Now they are one of the elites. The were only feared because of their population size. Now they are feared because of the weaponry.

So, we will keep using Apple as an example. Apple comes to the US. They dump millions into the infrastructure. They employ over a thousand people to work there. Now they need dozens of suppliers and contractors. Those suppliers and contractors will now have to employ more people and invest in expanding their business. Now there becomes a shortage of skilled workers so salaries start to go up to keep workers from leaving. The state and the feds stop looking for stupid ways to impose new taxes to fund their personal projects because of the extra money coming from the bigger/new businesses.

As for rich people suffering with us. That isn't going to happen. Trust me, I'm just as annoyed with it as you are. There's nothing we can do about it. I figured I can be mad and kick rocks or find a way for them to stop taking my money. The truth is, they don't even take in a huge salary from their business. They work out ways to have everything they do and buy to be paid for by the company. The richest of them take out personal loans to pay themselves but only take a salary the is big enough to pay the monthly payments on that loan. It's a lot cheaper to pay 5% on a loan than a 55% income tax.

Here's a prime example: I know a guy in San Diego who has a real estate business. He owns a lot of business complexes, upper level apartments, etc... He lives like a multi multi-millionaire. He has a huge mansion in La Jolla that is worth close to $10 million. However, his income, on paper, is only $120,000. That's because he learned to work the system. Everywhere he goes is paid for by the company due to it being "a business trip." Everything he buys is owned by the company, so the company pays for it. I asked how he gets the company to pay for his clothes and he said "it's my company uniform." His wife and kids are even on the payroll. Rich people know how to play the game.

IIRC, DT did enact a tariff on China in his first term, but it was a small one (and he was criticized for it), and then the next administration quietly continued it... This time DT is going big to get them to negotiate a more fair trade arrangement.

So he's exactly as spineless as the rest of our 'fearless leaders' and does not believe that the results will be seen even in 4 years. Otherwise, ppl would flock to vote for him and his financial genius leadership.
He imposed a tariff in 1st term. Did nothing to act upon it in 8 years until he introduced utter chaos.
I have carefully considered the possibility of any major corp moving to a country where the leader doesn't follow the rulings of the Supreme Court. I thought about the likeleyhood that any bank with even a half a nitwit in charge would ever take a chance financing a business in this turmoil with a market that is changing by the day. Even if the supply chain is good today doesn't mean it will be tomorrow.
If we only use US steel, the price skyrockets and we have another shortage.
How and why would a bank EVER loan a factory money when they supplies and msrkets are TOTALLY unstable?
Who is going to buy an overpriced, featureless tv from US when twice the product is already availible for a 1/10 of the price? US might have tariffs but the rest of the world doesn't.
no one in germany is going to buy US spyware TVs for those prices when they can buy a bigger, better tv witj more availible options and apps at 1/10 the price from Sony, lets say its 1/2 1/4... what difference does it make?
the entire model is fantasy land.
Apple will raise their prices and continue selling us spyware. Their prices are already fixed. No one else makes Apple products, no one competes with them.
The prices go up, no one bitches too much, world continues.
They aren't going to be building chips in the US any time soon I'd bet and when they do, 10x the price.
I feel like what you said about the rich us true and further backs my point that this is all a rich mans scam.
IF the US tv company makes it, great! It made it because 1000000's of Americans lost their minds and paid too much for tv's...
If not, the company folds, no biggie. They didn't stop production overseas and invest millions in retooling, building factories, infrastructure to move their real money makers.... just a TV company.
This will take decades and the tariffs are still not necessary. If ever to shift large companies and their major operations back to stateside.
They are dipping their toes in the pool while we are all drowing in piss.
When Appl moves ALL their operations back to US, ANY major company showing anything more than a dabble at this, I might he impressed that a real company has any real faith in this nonsense working.
We still haven't explained the money chain and how I am going to see money returns from my sh!t, forced tariff 'unvestments'.
If you're free...

He's not everyone's cup of tea but he raises some pretty vaild points about the financial problems involved with the tariffs.

 

[DavidB1126]

https://www.smc-racing.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=222

 

[WutUp Clegg]

I'm going to step out of this conversation. It seems more like a political party attack than simply a discussion about why the tariffs are in place. Any conversation that is about attacking a political party never turns out good.

 

[Chubaka]

I'm going to step out of this conversation. It seems more like a political party attack than simply a discussion about why the tariffs are in place. Any conversation that is about attacking a political party never turns out good.

My hats off to you. That's why I've been mute here. And my vomit reaction is because all the slick and sly chit the uppers do is down right disgusting. Nothing on you or what you posted.

 

[WutUp Clegg]

My hats off to you. That's why I've been mute here. And my vomit reaction is because all the slick and sly chit the uppers do is down right disgusting. Nothing on you or what you posted.

Yes, extremely rich people are pretty bad. You have people like Bezos, Musk, Buffet, Gates, etc... They all give themselves a smaller income, on paper, and have their business pay for their lifestyle. The worst ones are the ones who take out personal loans as their "paycheck" so they don't have to pay taxes on their actual income.

 

[Doom!]

Yes, extremely rich people are pretty bad. You have people like Bezos, Musk, Buffet, Gates, etc... They all give themselves a smaller income, on paper, and have their business pay for their lifestyle. The worst ones are the ones who take out personal loans as their "paycheck" so they don't have to pay taxes on their actual income.

At least I'll never have THAT problem.

 

[CertifiedMike]

I'm going to step out of this conversation. It seems more like a political party attack than simply a discussion about why the tariffs are in place. Any conversation that is about attacking a political party never turns out good.

Its difficult fir me to separate the 2 issues as they are interwoven so tightly.
I am not a follower of any party. I am not trying to make it about 1 side or the other in that sense.
Its about rich and not, 3%-97%... I would(and did) talk the same way about a good number of our past 'leaders' similarly. Any of them trying to mislead any of us into believing that just because the oval office approves it, it must be good for us.
Nonsense.
The tariffs don't need to be there no matter who is behind the bull(sh!t) horn.
@DavidB1126 's post is the tip of the iceburg.

I wish none of us were duscussing this at all.