Trying to remove Engine Head, ball head alan broke and is stuck in set screw..

[redhatman]

Hey, I was trying to take off the head of my O.S. .12 CV engine today and I was using some Tool Shop® brand alans. They are the kind that have that little ball on the end of them. Anyway, I was trying to loosen the screw when I heard a snap, that is normal being that that is the sound it normally makes when you losen a screw, but I then noticed that my alan head broke off. there is barely any of it sticking out, so it is hard to get with a needle nosed pliers. This doesn't affect the performance of the engine, but I would like it out. Is there any way to get this out besides cutting the top of the head of and replace the screw? If I lube it with some oil, would it come out easier? Here is a pic of it.

you can see it in the bottom right screw. it is the head of the alan.... any suggestions? Thanks a lot.
-Pat (redhatman)

 

[beason]

turn it over and shake?? maby try heating it up?? tap it on a piece of wood??

 

[Bouzouki]

Is this your old engine?

I hope it is.

Why the hell where you trying to take the head off anyways, I hope you didnt stip anything.......

If the screw is still tight, it wont do any harm.

 

[FastEddy]

Heating it up like mentioned above is a good thought and worth a try.

 

[redhatman]

so pretty much run it, and while it is still hot, try and remove it?

Is this your old engine?

I hope it is.

Why the hell where you trying to take the head off anyways, I hope you didnt stip anything.......

If the screw is still tight, it wont do any harm.

Dont ask me why I was gonna take it off, but no... it didnt strip anything.

 

[niggle]

Clean and degrease the machine screw and remains of the ball driver with denatured alcohol or brake cleaner.

Try attaching the end of a plain hex driver to the remains of the ball driver with CA glue. Leave it to set and then try to remove the broken ball driver.

If this fails try again with Epoxy adhesive.

If this fails then centre punch the top of the broken ball driver and drill with a very small drill bit, no more than 1.5mm and don't go too deep. The heat and vibration should cause the broken ball driver to come out of the machine screw.

If this fails or the socket head of the screw is damaged then you need to drill the head off the machine screw. Use a 3.5mm or 4.0mm drill bit and proceed very slowly until the socket head of the machine screw breaks away from the shank.

You will now either have 4 machine screws in good condition or 3 good ones and a broken screw.

To prevent breaking any more screws you need to heat top of the engine block where the cooling head retaining screws are threaded into it. Remove the engine from the car and use a hot air gun or micro gas torch to gently heat the crankcase. At a pinch you could use a cigarette lighter. Heat in the immediate area of each screw and remove in turn whilst the crankcase is hot and then remove the cooling head. I would also recommend removing the carb and pullstart from the engine first before heating it.

If you were unfortunate enough to have to drill the head off any damaged screws then you need to make a small cut in the top of the screw shank where it protrudes from the crankcase. Heat the crankcase again and carefully unscrew the remains of any broken machine screws with a small flat-bladed screwdriver or by gripping tightly with some good pliers and twisting.

If you take care and all goes well you should end up with an undamaged crankcase and cooling head. Rebuild with new machine screws. I prefer to use stainless steel screws because they are harder and there is less chance of the head chewing up in future.

Heat is the key ingredient here. I have encountered threadlocked screws so tight that an impact wrench chewed the head up before the screw would budge. After drilling the damaged head off and heating the threaded part with a cigarette lighter, the remaining shank could be unscrewed with hardly any effort at all.

 

[Revo Rancher]

Pat, if you didn't have bad luck, you wouldn't have any at all...

Anyhow, it sounds like heat is a little help, or try Niggles CA method. If ti was me, I would try the CA method along with heating up the area.

 

[aj200415]

Pat, if you didn't have bad luck, you wouldn't have any at all...

Anyhow, it sounds like heat is a little help, or try Niggles CA method. If ti was me, I would try the CA method along with heating up the area.

heat it up, spray 3-36 or any thing like that, and try to wiggle it out. For the first time trying to remove the head bolts, let it heat up real good. Its new, they r tight the first time!

 

[redhatman]

So run it at about the normal 230 degrees and then try to remove it by pliers? Or should I go straight to the CA Glue? I dont want to glue it in there more, ca glue isnt that thick...

 

[olds97_lss]

Trying to drill it out won't work very well. It would if it was just a stripped screw, but with the piece of allen in there, it isn't going to drill worth a crap. Allen wrenches are hardened carbide steel in most cases... guess what drill bits are made of... hardened carbide steel.

I'd just run it and leave it in until you have to deal with it. Over time, the vibration and heat of the running engine my rattle it out.

I agree with your luck... apparently you beat baby puppies in a past life as your luck just blows.

 

[redhatman]

After I run it tomorrow, I will try to get it out. Otherwise, I guess I wont deal with it until i need to. It mgiht just vibrate out I guess...

 

[aj200415]

So run it at about the normal 230 degrees and then try to remove it by pliers? Or should I go straight to the CA Glue? I dont want to glue it in there more, ca glue isnt that thick...

heat it up, then try to pry it out with a thin pair of needle nose pliers.

IF ALL ELSE FAILS,then take something long(like an old allen wrench) put a small dab of j-b weld on it, set it on the allen head that broke, then let it dry over night, then pull it out.(be sure not to get the j-b on the allen screw or the head).

 

[HeartBreak]

I had the same exact problem on the same type of engine, but luckily, I was replacing the head with an upgrade at the time... I literally sawed the sucker into about 15 pieces and then used pliers to take the screw out... But, if you do that, you'll need a new head.

 

[rbmaxxbasher]

I had the same exact problem on the same type of engine, but luckily, I was replacing the head with an upgrade at the time... I literally sawed the sucker into about 15 pieces and then used pliers to take the screw out... But, if you do that, you'll need a new head.

HMMM, Sounds like something I did to a set of wheels to get the tires off.

 

[Rustler.152.5]

i was thinkin just get titanium plated drill bits or something like that, drill out the screw a little bit, then get screws extractors/e-z outs, and pull the screw or allen wrench head out.

 

[ImBroken]

I had this happen to me awhile back. The ball head is stuck in there because it is tweaked counter clockwise. If you can just use something to try & tweak it free in the clockwise direction, the ball will free up & you'll be able to shake it out. Heat will help alot, because it will expand the metall of the hex head. Drilling or cutting it out would be an extreme last resort..

 

[redhatman]

what do you mean to tweak it? like push it?

 

[fisherman]

this has happened to me too and i did what imbroken said i tweeked it but then i just slammed it very agressively on a piece of wood, and it came out, however slam at your own risk.

 

[redhatman]

haha, but what does he mean by "tweak" ?

 

[Diver6127]

tweak as in lightly persuading it in the opposite direction so get it dislodged. Small movements or else it'll just get stuck in the opposite direction.