Tips and Tools for Removing Stubborn Fasteners

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WickedFog

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I'll never understand how those "hex+" work any better than a typical hex. If the screw head was shaped to fit the hex+, then it would make sense, but on both, the contact is at the corner only and whether the entire face of the edge is touching or not, just seems like it would end up with the same result.
They are not machined as a true hex I am guessing. With fasteners and tools there is a +/- tolerance, with a slight gap between the max of the tool, and minimum of the socket. So when you turn the tool, only the very corner of the hex touches the fastener. Now imagine with the tool turned, you filled the angled gap areas, just to the center of the flat. Turn the tool the opposite way and repeat. Now you would end up with a tool that has 12 sides. It wouldn't fit in the screw. The only way it would fit would be to dish out the area between the corners. Basically, each point would not be machined at 60°. This is all just hypothetical, as I never tried to reverse engineer one.

That is just the only way I can think of that this would work, while remaining in tolerance. In theory, it would be possible, but just guessing here.
 
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WickedFog

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@olds97_lss
See if this helps...
So if you draw each hex leaving a gap for the tolerance, then rotate the inner hex til the corner touches, then draw a line filling in the gap you get this...
20210721_211216.jpg

Now rotate it back til the opposite corner touches and draw a line filling in the gap, and you will see you would no longer have any tolerance left (no gap)...
20210721_211225.jpg

So you grind that area away...
20210721_211234.jpg


Now you have a larger contact area for your tool...
20210721_211240.jpg

So that is what a hex plus is 😉

And this is exactly why a torx bit will often remove a stripped Allen bolt, as long as the tool took most of the damage..
 
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olds97_lss

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@olds97_lss
See if this helps...
So if you draw each hex leaving a gap for the tolerance, then rotate the inner hex til the corner touches, then draw a line filling in the gap you get this...
View attachment 129946
Now rotate it back til the opposite corner touches and draw a line filling in the gap, and you will see you would no longer have any tolerance left (no gap)...
View attachment 129947
So you grind that area away...
View attachment 129948

Now you have a larger contact area for your tool...
View attachment 129949
So that is what a hex plus is 😉

And this is exactly why a torx bit will often remove a stripped Allen bolt, as long as the tool took most of the damage..
Yep... none of that helped me... but I appreciate your effort in trying to make it make sense!
 

WickedFog

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Yep... none of that helped me... but I appreciate your effort in trying to make it make sense!
Well, at least I tried. I can just assure you, there is a lot more contact on the screw. Maybe if you zoom in to the last pic. Look at the contact patch flat against the screw's socket. Red is the screw. White is the tool. It is a very clever design.
 

olds97_lss

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Well, at least I tried. I can just assure you, there is a lot more contact on the screw. Maybe if you zoom in to the last pic. Look at the contact patch flat against the screw's socket. Red is the screw. White is the tool. It is a very clever design.
Maybe I'll try them some day. Just wish they made bits that had a longer shank that was standard locking like my MIP's or at least my PBSwiss bits. They have longer ones, but not small for RC use. All they have for those are short little stubby ones that don't let you get down in the hole where a lot of screws are.
https://www.amazon.com/Wera-Hex-Plus-8040-6-Bit-Check-Sheet/dp/B003KN3G1Y
 

WickedFog

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Maybe I'll try them some day. Just wish they made bits that had a longer shank that was standard locking like my MIP's or at least my PBSwiss bits. They have longer ones, but not small for RC use. All they have for those are short little stubby ones that don't let you get down in the hole where a lot of screws are.
https://www.amazon.com/Wera-Hex-Plus-8040-6-Bit-Check-Sheet/dp/B003KN3G1Y
Yeah, those don't even look like Hex Plus to me. I am grabbing the MIP ones as well. I just haven't needed them, but have always wanted them. Hard to justify $45 for tools I already have. Anyone want to buy some hex tools? Lol. Just kidding.
 

Greywolf74

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Bro thats crazy. You had to be manhandling those screws. This is what mine looks like after 10-12 years of off and on use.

20210807_064028.jpg
 
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One set of injora beadlocks and the EDS 1.5mm is rounding. Not super impressed. Here's a pic of it next to a year old (and hard used, and mislabeled) MIP 2.5mm ball head.
View attachment 130555
And zoomed in
View attachment 130556
It chewed up 2 screws out of 48. Bummer.

Back to MIP's for me.
Holly crap. How the hell. Those 1.5 hexs are tiny screws for beadlock. I'm guessing they were for 1.9 rims. Those screws are NOT self tapping either. That's probably why you rounded the drivers and also guessing the hex head?.Way to much force for those tiny screws. Here's a tip you should have pre drilled or pushed a finish nail threw the ring holes first.Into the tiers rubber bead to get a pre hole before you put in the screws. And used a little drop of shock oil or lab. To help with the screws going into the rubber. I don't think I was the tool it self. Any hex tool would round out I believe. Useing that much force to start a flat thread into rubber
 

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Holly crap. How the hell. Those 1.5 hexs are tiny screws for beadlock. I'm guessing they were for 1.9 rims. Those screws are NOT self tapping either. That's probably why you rounded the drivers and also guessing the hex head?.Way to much force for those tiny screws. Here's a tip you should have pre drilled or pushed a finish nail threw the ring holes first.Into the tiers rubber bead to get a pre hole before you put in the screws. And used a little drop of shock oil or lab. To help with the screws going into the rubber. I don't think I was the tool it self. Any hex tool would round out I believe. Useing that much force to start a flat thread into rubber
1.9 wheels, aluminum, holes were threaded. I wasn't using more than finger force until the final lap. For the final tightening I gripped the driver with my palm, but nothing exceeded 25 inch/lbs of torque. Most of the threads were a little slow going- kinda like putting a screw into new plastic, but not difficult. I'm also sure that the Injora screws ain't the best.
I ain't mad at all, just expected a little more from their reputation. EDS' customer service was outstanding, too.

Still, I'm sticking with MIPs 😉
 

WickedFog

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1.9 wheels, aluminum, holes were threaded. I wasn't using more than finger force until the final lap. For the final tightening I gripped the driver with my palm, but nothing exceeded 25 inch/lbs of torque. Most of the threads were a little slow going- kinda like putting a screw into new plastic, but not difficult. I'm also sure that the Injora screws ain't the best.
I ain't mad at all, just expected a little more from their reputation. EDS' customer service was outstanding, too.

Still, I'm sticking with MIPs 😉
That is one of the problems with chinesium. I am guessing the beadlock screws are stainless? But even my Dynamite drivers have completely annihilated cheap screws before and didn't take damage like that.

So what did EDS say when you showed that to them?
 
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Pat_ranch

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That is one of the problems with chinesium. I am guessing the beadlock screws are stainless? But even my Dynamite drivers have completely annihilated chesp screws before and didn't take damage like that.

So what did EDS say when you showed that to them?
This was from late last night. I figured I'd wait until Monday to bug them with it. I'll grind it down below the galling and keep it around for lighter work. EDS feels nice in the hand, and I like the length, just won't use them for higher torque applications
 

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1.9 wheels, aluminum, holes were threaded. I wasn't using more than finger force until the final lap. For the final tightening I gripped the driver with my palm, but nothing exceeded 25 inch/lbs of torque. Most of the threads were a little slow going- kinda like putting a screw into new plastic, but not difficult. I'm also sure that the Injora screws ain't the best.
I ain't mad at all, just expected a little more from their reputation. EDS'stomer service was outstanding, too.

Still, I'm sticking with MIPs 😉
Oh yeah I'm not saying anything about eds or mips of who's better. But aluminum drver vrs steel screw. Steel screw wins everytime against aluminum especiallythat small of a head . Don't know why they make aluminum driver at all to be honest. The mips are steel definitely take more tourqe. These were the first set I bought early 2000s still have them today. I like them.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006O4AD...abc_EHHY63G1S53Y2RSEXGTW?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
 

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machinist of 16 years here

I swear by Wiha and bondhus

great product's mip is way over priced when wiha works just as good if not better.

you pay for that name
 

WickedFog

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machinist of 16 years here

I swear by Wiha and bondhus

great product's mip is way over priced when wiha works just as good if not better.

you pay for that name
There is a big difference between using tools in an industrial setting and a hobby for sure. A lot of the insert cutters we bought came with Wiha torx drivers. The ones shaped like a flag. I had so many of those in my toolbox I started giving them to friends. They lasted forever.
 

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they give you those cause it's easier to use the proper amount of torque and not over tighten the inserts 🙃

that's the whole reason
 

WickedFog

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they give you those cause it's easier to use the proper amount of torque and not over tighten the inserts 🙃

that's the whole reason
Yeah, I used them in a pinch. But I had my Wera's that I used for most insert changes. Arthritis didn't like me using those small flags.
 

Greywolf74

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Oh yeah I'm not saying anything about eds or mips of who's better. But aluminum drver vrs steel screw. Steel screw wins everytime against aluminum especiallythat small of a head . Don't know why they make aluminum driver at all to be honest. The mips are steel definitely take more tourqe. These were the first set I bought early 2000s still have them today. I like them.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006O4AD...abc_EHHY63G1S53Y2RSEXGTW?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
The Team EDS arent aluminum they are rolled spring steel.
 

Bluetickduke

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I don't think any company makes driver tips out of aluminum..

Everyone uses some kind of tool steel..
 
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