Spektrum Firma 160A ESC LVC Setting Info

[Greywolf74]

If you guys didnt see my other thread the Eagle Tree is a no go. I'm not sure its up to the task as it has 150A max and as weve seen the K8 can pull as much as 240A. The real problem though is Eagle Tree went out of business. If I could buy another one then Id risk the one I currently have but since I can't I'm loath to chance it. So I'm kinda left with no more ideas on how to tell what is going on with these settings.

 

[STONER RC]

If you guys didnt see my other thread the Eagle Tree is a no go. I'm not sure its up to the task as it has 150A max and as weve seen the K8 can pull as much as 240A. The real problem though is Eagle Tree went out of business. If I could buy another one then Id risk the one I currently have but since I can't I'm loath to chance it. So I'm kinda left with no more ideas on how to tell what is going on with these settings.

Oh man that's NO GOOD bud

 

[Greywolf74]

Ok, looks like were back in business. I found a data logger that Hyperion makes and theres even a mod (of sorts) out there that will let it do high current tests so i ordered it now we wait....

 

[Doom!]

You would think some of these things would be a little more common, but I guess not.

 

[STONER RC]

Ok, looks like were back in business. I found a data logger that Hyperion makes and theres even a mod (of sorts) out there that will let it do high current tests so i ordered it now we wait....

Hell yeah thays awesome man. So exciting you sounded very disappointed this morning

You would think some of these things would be a little more common, but I guess not.

You would think they were. With all the different people in RC hobby. That I am sure are wondering the same thing and want to test the lipos

 

[Greywolf74]

You would think some of these things would be a little more common, but I guess not.

I would think so too. I mean I get they arent super useful for ground kits unless you're just a geek like me who likes to play for electronics but for the airplane guys these kinda of tools are more critical for them so they can test their set ups on the bench before risking their planes in the air. Freakin Covid shutting down all kinds of small businesses Q_Q

 

[Slick2500]

I was trying to explain to you in the thread on the Arrma forums about why you hit lvc so high but it got lost in you and JD talking about what setting to run lvc at. And I didn't really get a chance to explain what I meant.

What you are witnessing is first hand proof that lipo battery c rates are fake and made up numbers(Horizon will never tell you this as their c rates are really super inflated their "100c" lipos have been shown to only have a true c rate of about 20c). The SMC pack has the highest true c rate, which in real world testing SMC has been proven to have some of the highest true c rates, while the Hoovoo is in the middle and the Zee has the lowest. So as you can clearly see the lower the true c rate the more voltage drop you are going to see from the battery. Having said that the higher the true c rate the less voltage drop you will see under load the lower the true c rate the more voltage drop you will see.

The lower the cell voltage, even on a high c rate pack, the faster the voltage will start to drop as well. But why the lvc didn't kick in until 2.6v on the SMC has me scratching my head, you should have noticed the vehicle slowing down or not performing as well before you even got that far, at least from my experience when I accidentally left my LVC disabled one time I could see and tell that there was a drop in performance and when I checked my lipo I was at 2.8v!

From your findings in this thread I would go with SMC packs personally over Hoovoo or Zees.

I started a thread about the fakeness of C rates over on the Arrma forums a lot of good reading in there https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/c-rates-what-is-the-deal.17174/

 

[WickedFog]

I was trying to explain to you in the thread on the Arrma forums about why you hit lvc so high but it got lost in you and JD talking about what setting to run lvc at. And I didn't really get a chance to explain what I meant.

What you are witnessing is first hand proof that lipo battery c rates are fake and made up numbers(Horizon will never tell you this as their c rates are really super inflated their "100c" lipos have been shown to only have a true c rate of about 20c). The SMC pack has the highest true c rate, which in real world testing SMC has been proven to have some of the highest true c rates, while the Hoovoo is in the middle and the Zee has the lowest. So as you can clearly see the lower the true c rate the more voltage drop you are going to see from the battery. Having said that the higher the true c rate the less voltage drop you will see under load the lower the true c rate the more voltage drop you will see.

The lower the cell voltage, even on a high c rate pack, the faster the voltage will start to drop as well. But why the lvc didn't kick in until 2.6v on the SMC has me scratching my head, you should have noticed the vehicle slowing down or not performing as well before you even got that far, at least from my experience when I accidentally left my LVC disabled one time I could see and tell that there was a drop in performance and when I checked my lipo I was at 2.8v!

From your findings in this thread I would go with SMC packs personally over Hoovoo or Zees.

I started a thread about the fakeness of C rates over on the Arrma forums a lot of good reading in there https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/c-rates-what-is-the-deal.17174/

That makes a lot of sense. But like you I am confused by the 2.6v packs.

As for the C rating, I have never had a pack test true to it's advertised c rating. Some have been so far off I was mad enough to send them back.

 

[STONER RC]

I was trying to explain to you in the thread on the Arrma forums about why you hit lvc so high but it got lost in you and JD talking about what setting to run lvc at. And I didn't really get a chance to explain what I meant.

What you are witnessing is first hand proof that lipo battery c rates are fake and made up numbers(Horizon will never tell you this as their c rates are really super inflated their "100c" lipos have been shown to only have a true c rate of about 20c). The SMC pack has the highest true c rate, which in real world testing SMC has been proven to have some of the highest true c rates, while the Hoovoo is in the middle and the Zee has the lowest. So as you can clearly see the lower the true c rate the more voltage drop you are going to see from the battery. Having said that the higher the true c rate the less voltage drop you will see under load the lower the true c rate the more voltage drop you will see.

The lower the cell voltage, even on a high c rate pack, the faster the voltage will start to drop as well. But why the lvc didn't kick in until 2.6v on the SMC has me scratching my head, you should have noticed the vehicle slowing down or not performing as well before you even got that far, at least from my experience when I accidentally left my LVC disabled one time I could see and tell that there was a drop in performance and when I checked my lipo I was at 2.8v!

From your findings in this thread I would go with SMC packs personally over Hoovoo or Zees.

I started a thread about the fakeness of C rates over on the Arrma forums a lot of good reading in there https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/c-rates-what-is-the-deal.17174/

Thanks for the good info. will have to read it tomorrow

 

[Slick2500]

That makes a lot of sense. But like you I am confused by the 2.6v packs.

As for the C rating, I have never had a pack test true to it's advertised c rating. Some have been so far off I was mad enough to send them back.

I think the only company that doesn't put fake c rates on their lipo batteries is Traxxas.

 

[Greywolf74]

I was trying to explain to you in the thread on the Arrma forums about why you hit lvc so high but it got lost in you and JD talking about what setting to run lvc at. And I didn't really get a chance to explain what I meant.

What you are witnessing is first hand proof that lipo battery c rates are fake and made up numbers(Horizon will never tell you this as their c rates are really super inflated their "100c" lipos have been shown to only have a true c rate of about 20c). The SMC pack has the highest true c rate, which in real world testing SMC has been proven to have some of the highest true c rates, while the Hoovoo is in the middle and the Zee has the lowest. So as you can clearly see the lower the true c rate the more voltage drop you are going to see from the battery. Having said that the higher the true c rate the less voltage drop you will see under load the lower the true c rate the more voltage drop you will see.

The lower the cell voltage, even on a high c rate pack, the faster the voltage will start to drop as well. But why the lvc didn't kick in until 2.6v on the SMC has me scratching my head, you should have noticed the vehicle slowing down or not performing as well before you even got that far, at least from my experience when I accidentally left my LVC disabled one time I could see and tell that there was a drop in performance and when I checked my lipo I was at 2.8v!

From your findings in this thread I would go with SMC packs personally over Hoovoo or Zees.

I started a thread about the fakeness of C rates over on the Arrma forums a lot of good reading in there https://www.arrmaforum.com/threads/c-rates-what-is-the-deal.17174/

Thanks for your input on this slick. My testing shows that the true C rating for my 120C SMC packs (I just realized teh other day they are supposedly 120C packs not 60C) is about 26C and the Hoovo and Zee packs are around 20-21C. I wouldnt think that the difference in true C rating would be enough to cause such drastically different results but maybe there is that big of a difference between 20 and 26 true C. Again though I'm puzzled because why did the SMC packs go so low and the others arent even getting close to cut off? IDK I guess we'll see what the discharge curves look like eventually which should give us a better idea of whats really going on.

I got another reply back from HH and they said there is no formula and that each setting has its own specific cut off but I dont believe that. If that was true then why would the settings say auto instead of just being set to specific values?

 

[WickedFog]

...If that was true then why would the settings say auto instead of just being set to specific values?

That is what I am wondering as well.

 

[Jon NC RC]

It feels like I am a kindergartenor walking into a college level discussion, and basically I am when it comes to this.

sounds very frustrating sounds like pathetic customer service. There is something that I will share later that will not give you the answers that you are searching for, I will not bring any satisfaction or relieve to the situation. It would be nice to have truth in advertising and to have simple tech values available to the customer. It’s called customer service it’s called answering questions from customers. It’s a good thing according to business 101.

There is no reason why, you would think that for a low-voltage cut off to activate at one level for one battery at a different level for a different battery, unless the differences were absolutely minute, and then it would be acceptable I guess. However, there is such a wide variety of values when you tested these batteries when they were LVC …….there doesn’t seem to be any reason or rhyme to it.

It would be nice to be informed that low-voltage cut off on the low setting would shut down the rig at say 3.2, medium 3.5, high 3.8. And then, when you tested the batteries when they cut out, you found it to be pretty close to being the case across-the-board regardless of the battery. For me, at my level of involvement and electronics that would be simple enough for me and acceptable on my end. But that seems to be too difficult to relate, especially by people who do not know and don’t know who to contact to find out. .(referring to horizon hobby customer service by the way….)

On a side point with what slick interjected, it would be nice to have truth in advertising, remember back or before they had labels on food that were supposed to be somewhat accurate? I know it’s different but it would be really nice to know what really are the capacities of the batteries instead of what the manufacturer claims they are. Anyway my simple suggestion is this ……which doesn’t give you any answers or any closure…..

use a Lipo alarm, set it to where you want it and go from there……

maybe that is more reliable than the fIrma system…….. but then again maybe not…..

again, I know it doesn’t solve anything, doesn’t give you the answers you need or want or are asking for

For a company that tries so hard to advertise their big tech Firma equipment…… which comes at a price by the way as we all know, they didnt do a good job answering a question that they should know the answer to

My two cents

 

[STONER RC]

That is what I am wondering as well.

Thanks for your input on this slick. My testing shows that the true C rating for my 120C SMC packs (I just realized teh other day they are supposedly 120C packs not 60C) is about 26C and the Hoovo and Zee packs are around 20-21C. I wouldnt think that the difference in true C rating would be enough to cause such drastically different results but maybe there is that big of a difference between 20 and 26 true C. Again though I'm puzzled because why did the SMC packs go so low and the others arent even getting close to cut off? IDK I guess we'll see what the discharge curves look like eventually which should give us a better idea of whats really going on.

I got another reply back from HH and they said there is no formula and that each setting has its own specific cut off but I dont believe that. If that was true then why would the settings say auto instead of just being set to specific values?

They want you to buy their smart batteries.. after you burn up the ones you are running or burn up your RC... like you've said before wolf.. there's got to be a formula.. to their madness.. but won't allow that to be know. You should add that to your battery testing.. ESC testing set up a low volt alarm.. so you can test the esc out on your bench. With different lipos..

 

[Jon NC RC]

They want you to buy their smart batteries.. after you burn up the ones you are running or burn up your RC... like you've said before wolf.. there's got to be a formula.. to their madness.. but won't allow that to be know. You should add that to your battery testing.. ESC testing set up a low volt alarm.. so you can test the esc out on your bench. With different lipos..

Myself, I chose not to go that direction to buy a smart this and smart that.That choice has saved me a decent amount of money, and I have decent equipment with decent batteries and a decent charger that fits my needs. If somebody else chooses to go down that path and buy all that stuff, that’s up to them and I won’t talk smack about that if that’s what they really want to do and feel that it benefits them somehow.


But I know it’s not worth it to me, not with my set up and not at this point in time

 

[WickedFog]

Myself, I chose not to go that direction to buy a smart this and smart that.That choice has saved me a decent amount of money, and I have decent equipment with decent batteries and a decent charger that fits my needs. If somebody else chooses to go down that path and buy all that stuff, that’s up to them and I won’t talk smack about that if that’s what they really want to do and feel that it benefits them somehow.


But I know it’s not worth it to me, not with my set up and not at this point in time

I feel the same way. But after getting a bad battery from Horizon, then getting sent the wrong battery because the one I got was discontinued, they are now sending me a smart battery. So I got a smart battery coming. It's just really dumb how it happened.

 

[Greywolf74]

It feels like I am a kindergartenor walking into a college level discussion, and basically I am when it comes to this.

sounds very frustrating sounds like pathetic customer service. There is something that I will share later that will not give you the answers that you are searching for, I will not bring any satisfaction or relieve to the situation. It would be nice to have truth in advertising and to have simple tech values available to the customer. It’s called customer service it’s called answering questions from customers. It’s a good thing according to business 101.

There is no reason why, you would think that for a low-voltage cut off to activate at one level for one battery at a different level for a different battery, unless the differences were absolutely minute, and then it would be acceptable I guess. However, there is such a wide variety of values when you tested these batteries when they were LVC …….there doesn’t seem to be any reason or rhyme to it.

It would be nice to be informed that low-voltage cut off on the low setting would shut down the rig at say 3.2, medium 3.5, high 3.8. And then, when you tested the batteries when they cut out, you found it to be pretty close to being the case across-the-board regardless of the battery. For me, at my level of involvement and electronics that would be simple enough for me and acceptable on my end. But that seems to be too difficult to relate, especially by people who do not know and don’t know who to contact to find out. .(referring to horizon hobby customer service by the way….)

On a side point with what slick interjected, it would be nice to have truth in advertising, remember back or before they had labels on food that were supposed to be somewhat accurate? I know it’s different but it would be really nice to know what really are the capacities of the batteries instead of what the manufacturer claims they are. Anyway my simple suggestion is this ……which doesn’t give you any answers or any closure…..

use a Lipo alarm, set it to where you want it and go from there……

maybe that is more reliable than the fIrma system…….. but then again maybe not…..

again, I know it doesn’t solve anything, doesn’t give you the answers you need or want or are asking for

For a company that tries so hard to advertise their big tech Firma equipment…… which comes at a price by the way as we all know, they didnt do a good job answering a question that they should know the answer to

My two cents

Yeah, I have different methods available to me to deal with the issue, this post was more about trying to get an answer to my question because almost every other ESC on the planet just has specific values you can set and they cut off at that level. Whatever formula or algorithm this ESC is using to determine LVC apparently doesn't work very well if at all. Eventually once I'm done doing tests on it I will eventually just replace it with a Castle XLX2

They want you to buy their smart batteries.. after you burn up the ones you are running or burn up your RC... like you've said before wolf.. there's got to be a formula.. to their madness.. but won't allow that to be know. You should add that to your battery testing.. ESC testing set up a low volt alarm.. so you can test the esc out on your bench. With different lipos..

I've got some plans to do some further testing eventually once I get my new Hyperion data logger set up and figured out.

I feel the same way. But after getting a bad battery from Horizon, then getting sent the wrong battery because the one I got was discontinued, they are now sending me a smart battery. So I got a smart battery coming. It's just really dumb how it happened.

I hope they at least gave you one of the smart batteries that still has the balance lead on it. From what I saw it doesn't look like their latest version has a balance lead anymore like the traxxas ID connector lipos.

 

[WickedFog]

Yeah, I have different methods available to me to deal with the issue, this post was more about trying to get an answer to my question because almost every other ESC on the planet just has specific values you can set and they cut off at that level. Whatever formula or algorithm this ESC is using to determine LVC apparently doesn't work very well if at all. Eventually once I'm done doing tests on it I will eventually just replace it with a Castle XLX2


I've got some plans to do some further testing eventually once I get my new Hyperion data logger set up and figured out.


I hope they at least gave you one of the smart batteries that still has the balance lead on it. From what I saw it doesn't look like their latest version has a balance lead anymore like the traxxas ID connector lipos.

I told the guy it is kinda pointless to send it to me because I bought the pair of batteries to use as a 6s setup if need be. So having two different batteries now is going to be useless. Maybe he will send me 2 But regardless, I got a free $60 battery out of the deal because he didn't ask for the other one back.

 

[Jon NC RC]

I told the guy it is kinda pointless to send it to me because I bought the pair of batteries to use as a 6s setup if need be. So having two different batteries now is going to be useless. Maybe he will send me 2 But regardless, I got a free $60 battery out of the deal because he didn't ask for the other one back.

Better than a kick in the a##……but mismatched pair not good….maybe you can find use for it….or a new home……at least they did something….

Yeah, I have different methods available to me to deal with the issue, this post was more about trying to get an answer to my question because almost every other ESC on the planet just has specific values you can set and they cut off at that level. Whatever formula or algorithm this ESC is using to determine LVC apparently doesn't work very well if at all. Eventually once I'm done doing tests on it I will eventually just replace it with a Castle XLX2


I've got some plans to do some further testing eventually once I get my new Hyperion data logger set up and figured out.


I hope they at least gave you one of the smart batteries that still has the balance lead on it. From what I saw it doesn't look like their latest version has a balance lead anymore like the traxxas ID connector lipos.

Understood….lame they can’t give tech specs…..you weren’t even asking for super science level stuff, which I’m sure you could have done……

and…..In business, we, as consumers,reserve the right to buy and use something else to our liking……in your case, a Castle esc……

I feel the same way. But after getting a bad battery from Horizon, then getting sent the wrong battery because the one I got was discontinued, they are now sending me a smart battery. So I got a smart battery coming. It's just really dumb how it happened.

What a reward, a smart battery for a dumb situation…..

 

[WickedFog]

Better than a kick in the a##……but mismatched pair not good….maybe you can find use for it….or a new home……at least they did something….

Understood….lame they can’t give tech specs…..you weren’t even asking for super science level stuff, which I’m sure you could have done……

What a reward, a smart battery for a dumb situation…..

I have been secretly wanting one of the smart batteries just to see what all the hype is. So I may just have to grab a second one. But more than likely I'll just use the mismatched batteries in the Granite since it is only 3s.