Spektrum Firma 160A ESC LVC Setting Info

[Greywolf74]

So as a couple of you may know I was recently in the Arrma forums and messaging HH to try and find out what the LVC setting n the 160A Firma ESC are exactly. For those of you not familiar with it the ESC doesn't list specific voltages for the LVC to kick in. instead it says "Auto - Low", "Auto - Medium" and "Auto-High". The problem is I'm not sure exactly what to set my LVC to because every set of lipos I've run in my Kraton 8S kicks out at different points. For example on "Auto - Low" my SMC 4S packs didnt cut out until they had hit 2.6-2.8v/c. My Hoovo 4S packs cut out around 3.6V/C and my Zee 4S packs cut out around 4.75V/C. It doesn't make sense so I've been trying to find answers.

Unfortunately the thread over on the Arrma forums was highjacked by someone who kept wanting to argue about LVC preferences even though I told him 2 or 3 different times I was there to debate what people should set their LVC too. So that ended up being a huge waste of time and ultimately I asked Woodie to just delete the thread because no one would read through all the bickering to find a nugget or two of info so I figure I'll just share with you guys cuz yall are the ones I do this stuff for, I mean other than I do it for myself too obviously

So that leaves us with just what I've experienced so far and what HH has told me so far. This was their first response to my question what exactly the LVC settings meant on the 160A Firma.

"In regards to the Low/Medium/High cutoff. That is never really a point where you would want to run a Medium/High cutoff. All of those options are "auto". So it will auto-detect the cell count, and as long as "low" is selected. It will adjust to the proper "Low" voltage cutoff point for that cell-rated battery."

Well this isnt true because for some reason the Low setting ran my SMC packs all the way down to as low as 2.6V/C and the highest cell was 2.8V/C. That is too low but it doesn't do that to my other packs. my other packs dont go down far enough. Generally I set my LVC to 3.2V/C because even if they sag momentarily down to 2.7 or 2.8 as long as the LVC is doing its job and cutting them off as soon as voltage sags below 3.2V/C then the packs will be fine. Everything that I've read says that the cells dont start being really damaged until they hit 2.6V/C. Now that being said running them lower will shorten the life span a bit but the trade off is longer run times. Also the statement doesn't make sense because the technician stated that "It will adjust to the proper "Low" voltage cutoff point for that cell-rated battery." That doesn't make sense because LVC needs to be the same no matter how many cells you're running.

Having said all of that i want to make it perfectly clear that I do not want to debate LVC levels in this thread. This thread is about what the LVC settings on the Firma 160A actually do whether its good or bad and regardless if what you or I do is good or bad. If you disagree with me and want to debate it start another thread and Ill be happy to debate you all you want on LVC but I dont want what happened over at the arrma forum to happen here. We can debate facts about the settings themselves but not whats safe and unsafe.

So I wrote HH back and I said "I still don't understand the lvc on the 160a firma esc. If it's all automatic then why is there a low, medium and high? Those have to stand for something or else why would they be there?"

The rest of the back and forth with HH went like this...

HH: "I have explained what the difference are the best I can to not confuse you more. Low means it will cut the batteries at a safe Low point (Recommended) Medium would be for a shorter run where you don't want the battery as low as the low option. Higher, the same thing just stops higher than the medium point. Not sure how else to explain that I'm afraid."

Me: "I understand the difference between high medium and low in a generic sense. I'm trying to find out what the lvc values are for each of the settings so I know which one I want to use. Low is waaaay to low. It discharged my cells down to anywhere from 2.6 to 2.8v/c on a brand new set of 60C 5000mah lipos. I don't really feel like I should have to experiment with each setting and risk damaging brand new expensive lipos because HH doesn't want to divulge the set values or the formula that the esc uses to dictate at what point lvc will occur. Every other esc on the planet just tells you in the settings the exact point at which lvc will occur."

HH: "I understand what you are needing. I just confirmed with Spektrum and here are the values for each.
Low - 3.2v
Medium - 3.4v
High - 3.6v
*All values are approximate and may fluctuate*"

Me: "Ok, hold up so this leads to another question. If low is supposed to be 3.2V/C cut off then why does my SMC 60C 5000mah lipos get run down to 2.6-2.8V/C, My Hoovo 60C 5000mah Lipos get run down to 3.6V/C and my Zee brand pair of 50C 5200mah lipos only gets run down to 3.75V/C? My results are not consistent with Spektrums claims of low being 3.2V/C."

and I'm still waiting for a response to that so this is where i am in my quest to unravel the mysteries of the Firma 160A ESC LVC Settings and why they seem to be dumb. lol

Anyone have any insight or thoughts on the matter?

P.S. Sometimes I feel like I should have been an investigative reporter lol

 

[Doom!]

"I have explained what the difference are the best I can to not confuse you more.

I appreciate the work your putting in, seemed like a straight forward question, if they didn't have the answer, they should have passed it on to someone who did, in the first place. I realize they must get lots of dumb questions, anyone who deals directly with the public does, but condescension is never an appropriate response.

 

[STONER RC]

I appreciate the work your putting in, seemed like a straight forward question, if they didn't have the answer, they should have passed it on to someone who did, in the first place. I realize they must get lots of dumb questions, anyone who deals directly with the public does, but condescension is never an appropriate response.

Yeah but they didn't know who they were dealing with. Back to the sh*t customer service of HH. Sorry this is not a F-ing answer.

HH: "I have explained what the difference are the best I can to not confuse you more. Low means it will cut the batteries at a safe Low point (Recommended) Medium would be for a shorter run where you don't want the battery as low as the low option. Higher, the same thing just stops higher than the medium point. Not sure how else to explain that I'm afraid."
I'm afraid that you sir are a idiot. That is reading a pan flit or page out of the customer ? Book... really higher cuts out higher then medium F-ing idiots . How else can I explain this.
Well let's see the lipos all have number settings. 3.7 ,4.2. 7.4 , 11.1.
And so on... so how the hell isn't there a number setting g for LVC. I give you much credit WOLF. I would have.ripped into the person for giving me a stupid F-Ing answer. Thanks I know it low ,med ,high. A** hat

Horizon hobby

 

[WickedFog]

Oh man Wolf! I would have demanded to speak to someone with a few more brain cells after that first reply. Medium is higher than low and high is higher than that? Holy crap. That guy needs to have himself a Darwin award moment. Send him a link to this thread... PLEASE.

So what it sounds like to me, based on the technician's unedumacated (yeah, I spelt that right) babble, and your test results, the ESC is somehow taking the cell count into consideration and factoring that into a cutoff point? I mean, if that is the case that has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard in this hobby.

Oh wait. You didn't try it with a Spektrum smart battery did you? There's your problem. Spektrum figures if it smokes enough of your batteries (which at 2.6v - yes by gawd it will), you will eventually buy their brand. Yeah, I am into conspiracy theories, so what of it lol

Edit: I had to read that again. So obviously it is not actually a LVC. It is a LC. But low what? Obviously it isn't basing its cuttoff on voltage. The fact that the aforementioned moron said there is variance in this cuttoff tells me it can't be voltage, because LVC is LVC. Can you test another ESC to compare cuttoff values compared to that ESC LVC settings to see how much it varies?

This reminds me of not too long ago when I asked Spektrum for dimensions for one of their servos and the response was "the manufacturer hasn't supplied us with that information". This is in regards to the "proprietary servo" needed to run the shift arm for the Axial Ryft kit.

 

[STONER RC]

Oh man Wolf! I would have demanded to speak to someone with a few more brain cells after that first reply. Medium is higher than low and high is higher than that? Holy crap. That guy needs to have himself a Darwin award moment. Send him a link to this thread... PLEASE.

So what it sounds like to me, based on the technician's unedumacated (yeah, I spelt that right) babble, and your test results, the ESC is somehow taking the cell count into consideration and factoring that into a cutoff point? I mean, if that is the case that has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard in this hobby.

Oh wait. You didn't try it with a Spektrum smart battery did you? There's your problem. Spektrum figures if it smokes enough of your batteries (which at 2.6v - yes by gawd it will), you will eventually buy their brand. Yeah, I am into conspiracy theories, so what of it lol

I would live to see a link sent to that guy. And that is agood point. About the smart tech spec batteries.

But that's the answer he gives high is higher then medium. And low is lower then medium. Really thanks as*hat

 

[Greywolf74]

I'm not trying to rip the guy apart I'm just pointing out to him the inconsistencies in his answers in hopes that he will dig in to it more and come up with a real answer. Problem I run in to is once they've replied to you a couple/few times they stop answering your replies even if they havent answered your question. The old HH would have never done that. I've had them guys in the old days on the phone for an hour trying to figure out a faulty servo issue.

I get the impression that instead of using a set number as the LVC its using some formula which is why different batteries are performing differently but if thats true then I need to know what the formula is so I can at least make semi educated guesses as to what setting I should run what packs at. Whatever the case is I think the "auto" LVC thing is crap. I dont understand why they did that as none of their other ESCs are like that.

I do have a Castle XLX esc I could put in it to test what would happen on the packs with an ESC that has a dedicated LVC number but IDK if I want to go through the effort of swapping it out but I'll consider it at some point

 

[WickedFog]

I get the impression that instead of using a set number as the LVC its using some formula which is why different batteries are performing differently but if thats true then I need to know what the formula is so I can at least make semi educated guesses as to what setting I should run what packs at. Whatever the case is I think the "auto" LVC thing is crap. I dont understand why they did that as none of their other ESCs are like that.

That is what it seems, considering the amount of variance you are seeing from pack to pack. But what the heck could it even be looking at to calculate the cutoff value? And more importantly - WHY lol? A LiPo cell is a LiPo cell when it comes to cutoff voltage. 3.0V is the minimum I would ever want to see on any pack. And this ESC seems to completely disregard that? Very strange.

 

[Greywolf74]

That is what it seems, considering the amount of variance you are seeing from pack to pack. But what the heck could it even be looking at to calculate the cutoff value? And more importantly - WHY lol? A LiPo cell is a LiPo cell when it comes to cutoff voltage. 3.0V is the minimum I would ever want to see on any pack. And this ESC seems to completely disregard that? Very strange.

One of the only 2 on topic comments I got on the arrma forum was talking about how the cheaper zee and hoovo packs may be suffer more from voltage sag but I can't imagine they are sagging from 3.75v/c down far enough to trip LVC but even if they are then how do you account for the SMC packs that got discharged all the way down to 2.6-2.8v/c before LVC finally kicked in? The whole thing is bugging the crap out of me. I need to figure out how to use my eagle tree data logger so I can see the entire discharge curve and get an idea what exactly is happening. If it is a voltage sag issue of some sort Id be able to see it on a data logger.

 

[WickedFog]

I need to figure out how to use my eagle tree data logger so I can see the entire discharge curve and get an idea what exactly is happening. If it is a voltage sag issue of some sort Id be able to see it on a data logger.

That would be good to know. I wouldn't even use the ESC for anything other than testing til you figure it out. I highly doubt you are going to get a straight answer from Horizon or even Spektrum if you contacted them directly. I mean, I asked them for dimensions for THEIR servo and they told me the manufacturer didn't give them that information I just had to laugh after that.

 

[Greywolf74]

That would be good to know. I wouldn't even use the ESC for anything other than testing til you figure it out. I highly doubt you are going to get a straight answer from Horizon or even Spektrum if you contacted them directly. I mean, I asked them for dimensions for THEIR servo and they told me the manufacturer didn't give them that information I just had to laugh after that.

LOL< yeah I got a good chuckle out of that when I read that in the other thread. So dumb

I've tried calling HH support line 3 times now over the last 2 weeks and every time I call like even right now at 8:45am they say "Our call volume for the day has been exceeded. Please send us a message." What a joke

 

[Greywolf74]

Heres horizons newest response and my reply.

HH: "It sounds to me like the battery you're using is the culprit here. Because if you're charging the other batteries on this same charger and it's working properly. It wouldn't be the charger. It also isn't our batteries so we cannot confirm the results of all brands of batteries."

again another non answer...trying to shift blame on to my lipos.

me: "Theres nothing wrong with the batteries I'm using theyre all less than 3 months old, They all have less than 15 cycles on them, and all the cells have an IR on less than 2 milliohms. I'm extremely well versed in electronics and batteries as I'm an electronics technician by trade. This ESC has some sort of formula that its using to try and "auto" detect what voltage to cut the batteries off at. I'm trying to find out what that formula is so I can make educated decisions on what setting I should use for what batteries because for some strange reason Spektrum decided not to just have a traditional set voltage at which LVC occurs. If you do not know what formula the ESC uses can you please put me in contact with someone who does?"

Do yall get the feeling I put more effort into my replies than the HH employee is or is that just me? Just to clarify, I'm an IT tech not an electronics tech but I just want them to understand that I understand electronics and batteries on a level that I'm not going to accept them trying to use those things as a way to skirt around the question at hand.

 

[WickedFog]

Heres horizons newest response and my reply.

HH: "It sounds to me like the battery you're using is the culprit here. Because if you're charging the other batteries on this same charger and it's working properly. It wouldn't be the charger. It also isn't our batteries so we cannot confirm the results of all brands of batteries."

again another non answer...trying to shift blame on to my lipos.

me: "Theres nothing wrong with the batteries I'm using theyre all less than 3 months old, They all have less than 15 cycles on them, and all the cells have an IR on less than 2 milliohms. I'm extremely well versed in electronics and batteries as I'm an electronics technician by trade. This ESC has some sort of formula that its using to try and "auto" detect what voltage to cut the batteries off at. I'm trying to find out what that formula is so I can make educated decisions on what setting I should use for what batteries because for some strange reason Spektrum decided not to just have a traditional set voltage at which LVC occurs. If you do not know what formula the ESC uses can you please put me in contact with someone who does?"

Do yall get the feeling I put more effort into my replies than the HH employee is or is that just me? Just to clarify, I'm an IT tech not an electronics tech but I just want them to understand that I understand electronics and batteries on a level that I'm not going to accept them trying to use those things as a way to skirt around the question at hand.

You have to get your experience in there to make them understand they aren't talking to some dummy, so the quickest way to do that is put your experience into a title of sorts. Next time throw "engineer" in there instead of technician

On the otherhand, you are likely talking to someone who isn't even close to your level, and for them to have to pass you on to someone smarter says "Sorry, I can't do this job".

I think in the end you are just going to have to run your own tests to solve this riddle because the only people that have a clue what is going on are probably sitting in Shenzhen choking down Rama noodles off a couple sticks. I mean so far your battery checks remind me of some of my other Chinese products. It's plenty close enough for them, which is nowhere near close enough.

 

[tntpoof]

You wot be able to inject you expertise.. the enter what ever info you give them then they have preset response that are made to point to everything else but there product.. I'm sure they don't have info that use hobbies want always just preset responses why don't you measure the voltages on your batteries when you set them to low med high..lol I'm sure you can read a vom..so the we all know lol.what a joke lets all dog the guy ..lame

 

[WickedFog]

You wot be able to inject you expertise.. the enter what ever info you give them then they have preset response that are made to point to everything else but there product.. I'm sure they don't have info that use hobbies want always just preset responses why don't you measure the voltages on your batteries when you set them to low med high..lol I'm sure you can read a vom..so the we all know lol.what a joke lets all dog the guy ..lame

He has already done this. The point is he is trying to understand how this ESC determines the LVC because it is obviously different for different batteries. I check my batteries every time I hit LVC and I have never had one take a battery to 2.6v. And I have never had one cut off a whopping 2.15v different from one battery to the next. So this ESC is doing some kind of voodoo to go into lvc. I myself would be wanting to know what is causing this as well.

 

[Greywolf74]

He has already done this. The point is he is trying to understand how this ESC determines the LVC because it is obviously different for different batteries. I check my batteries every time I hit LVC and I have never had one take a battery to 2.6v. And I have never had one cut off a whopping 2.15v different from one battery to the next. So this ESC is doing some kind of voodoo to go into lvc. I myself would be wanting to know what is causing this as well.

I'm sure you're right. I'm sure HH will never be able to answer this as they would have to probably reach all the way back to the development team to get a meaningful answer and they will never put that much effort in to finding out. That being said we'll see where it goes. Once I get my eagle tree figured out and I can see what the voltages are doing from front to end that will probably give me an indication of whats going on. Soooo many projects, so little time.

 

[tntpoof]

He has already done this. The point is he is trying to understand how this ESC determines the LVC because it is obviously different for different batteries. I check my batteries every time I hit LVC and I have never had one take a battery to 2.6v. And I have never had one cut off a whopping 2.15v different from one battery to the next. So this ESC is doing some kind of voodoo to go into lvc. I myself would be wanting to know what is causing this as well.

when your dealing in different C rating along with mah thats going to happen...now these #'s are after battery has sat for a few minutes after removal from esc?.dint see a listing of actual #'s and cell count and C rate with mah..

 

[WickedFog]

when your dealing in different C rating along with mah thats going to happen...now these #'s are after battery has sat for a few minutes after removal from esc?.dint see a listing of actual #'s and cell count and C rate with mah..

But a battery will be registering a higher voltage than it did when it tripped lvc after sitting. Once he gets his diagnostics done it will be interesting to see the voltage curve to know what the esc is actually doing. My solution would be to not buy a Spektrum esc. All my dealings with them have not gone well anyway

 

[tntpoof]

I stopped using speculums when there 1001 module died after 15 minutes of us in my dx10. tried them 1 more time when I could get a dx3r pro that was the worst radio I ever used,,pure junk by Horizon aka. JR ....

 

[Greywolf74]

when your dealing in different C rating along with mah thats going to happen...now these #'s are after battery has sat for a few minutes after removal from esc?.

As soon as the K8 hits LVC, I pick it up and carry it back up my driveway to the garage, pull the lid, pull the battery and then take voltage readings. So they may get 60-90 seconds to rebound.

dint see a listing of actual #'s and cell count and C rate with mah..

Then you didnt read the thread but theyre all pretty similar. Theyre all either 5000 or 5200mah packs and either 50 or 60C

 

[STONER RC]

As soon as the K8 hits LVC, I pick it up and carry it back up my driveway to the garage, pull the lid, pull the battery and then take voltage readings. So they may get 60-90 seconds to rebound.

Then you didnt read the thread but theyre all pretty similar. Theyre all either 5000 or 5200mah packs and either 50 or 60C

Can't wait to see your testing results/ conclusions. They will be a interesting to see and read.
Who said anything or asked about batteries LVC?? And how did there answer become about a charging batteries or a charger??You were asking questions about the LVC on the 160amp esc.did they even read the question you were asking?. And the answers given from a so called "TOP RC company With Supreme customer service." That can only read the prompts that are in a book of Question & Responces. Or from the company question and answer hand book. Can the HH C/S put any sort of effort or knowledgeable based info into there answer/response. Other then putting blame on the customer. And what they have or did? HH answers were so vague/stupid/ and not even close to the question that was asked.. its so mind blowing. Too me

You wot be able to inject you expertise.. the enter what ever info you give them then they have preset response that are made to point to everything else but there product.. I'm sure they don't have info that use hobbies want always just preset responses why don't you measure the voltages on your batteries when you set them to low med high..lol I'm sure you can read a vom..so the we all know lol.what a joke lets all dog the guy ..lame

If a so called TOP RC COMPANY is going to hire people that have no fiddlesticking common sense and that give a stupid response or answer. Which is basic child common sense..."high is higher then medium and medium is higher then low and low is lower then medium".... or give a response that's totally not even on topic.... then YES they deserve to get called out and DOGGED.. When your not even close to topic and always think your rite. And everyone is doing something wrong.Because you dont do it or you didn't do it that way or hear about that way, or your way is best... OR NOT haven a sense of humor or don't know how to joke around and laugh. Well sorry... thats LAME!!!! Lighten up. Laugh. Don't be so serious all the time. Life is too short to always be up tight rite and serious