Saltwater Fish Keeping and Help.

[.21Rc10GT]

Hey guys,

I just recently setup my fish tank to Saltwater, and have some questions. First off, it is 46 gallons with a sump (dunno how big it is, but it supposedly handles up to 70 gal tanks). I have 1 powerhead in the tank and a protien skimmer in the sump.

OK. I setup my tank with tap water and Instant Ocean salt. My tap water is not chroinated or anything (we have well water). The only thing i can think of thats wrong with my water is, it has some minerals, and it is really hard water. It tested at about 26, its supposed to be at about 8-12. Well, it was going down slowly as i evened out the salt level to just right. I think the salt has a softening affect or something. I'm wondering if this is ok to use this water, or should i use purified water? I have an RO unit (just got it today), and it is as slow as christmas. It produces 50 gallons a day (dunno if thats in 12 or 24 hours). Should i empty my tank out and use this RO'd water, or can i use the water i already have in there?

Second: In testing the water in the tank, the levels of chemicals are as follows: nitrite <0.3, Nitrate 12.5, Ammonia 0.25, PH went from 7.7 to 8.0, and hardness went from 26 to 12. This is all in about 4 days. Everything else stayed the same except for those fluctuations in PH and Hardness. Are those levels about where they should be???

Third: When is my tank going to start cycling, or are there any signs of starting? According to the Live sand directions, it starts cycling right away and is done in a matter of days. If this is true, i still need to let the filter "mature" right? Any idea on how long that takes?

Fourth: When should i add the fish? I'm planning on adding a couple Damsels to the tank, but i dont know when to do it. They are supposed to help the tank cycle, but i dont know when to add them...

Any help and/or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

 

[Revo Rancher]

As to question three, it will require the filter to it's thing before you can count onthe tank to really stabilize and do it's thing. However, a large part of the cycle cannot start until you get ammonias to build. Usually this requires several days. Some people use starter fish such as damsels and humbugs right away, but most likely they will die as the water will get too toxic for them before it hits the next stage. Try one or two and see if it moves your cycle along, but other than that let the filter do it's thing. Your filter will have to make both bacteria and live growth in it to start the cycle without starter fish. That takes awhile.

 

[.21Rc10GT]

Well, i have seen a packet of Live Bacteria that supposedly cycles the tank a lot faster than just waiting (about 2 days or so). I am thinkin of going that route. Might as well try while there arent any fish eh?

 

[bustedgears]

try biozyme, that helped for me.

I have four damsels in my tank right now and they're doing fine

I've only had my tank going for about two weeks now

 

[.21Rc10GT]

I just ordered some bio-spira. I read that it is the best stuff to use for cycling, so I'm gonna try it out. I guess it allows some fish in the tank after a day!!! I think i will wait to see what the tests look like before i just throw em in...

 

[Revo Rancher]

Rc, the the last three posts will do it for ya (two are yours!). Add only one or two fish, though. Watch them. They should move a lot. They are active fish. If they hide it's ok as they need to adapt to the environment, but if they just sit and gulp water or hang around low to the gravel, you have other issues. We'll cross that bridge if we need to.

 

[.21Rc10GT]

Ok, so i should just put in the bacteria, and wait till things calm down, then add one or two damsels? Ok.

 

[Bouzouki]

Let the tank cycle, do not buy any of those pos "quick cycle" gimicks.

Your Amonia will spike, pretty high, then your nitrite.

All these levels should come down with time.

Do not add fish during a cycle because it is very hard on the fish.

Expect your Amonia and Nitrite to be high during a cycle, if not, thats not normal.

Don't worry so much about PH now, but after your settled, try to keep it around 8.1-8.4.

You add fish after your cycle is complete and I explained how to know when that cycle is done.

I only use RO/DI water, it will help controll algea blooms.

For filtering, I use no mechanical filters, the best thing you can have is a skimmer and LOTS of live rock.

1-2 lbs of live rock per gallon.

Live rock is the NATURAL way of keeping water levels down, live rock is the natural host of bacteria.

In fact, live rock is the ONLY way of keeping nitrates down, but you dont need to worry about htat.

It will speed up your cycle, I suggest you get some, maybe 30 lbs, its up to you.

Since you wont be doing a reef tank, you can run mechanical filteration, it will make your nitrates skyrocket but fish are not effected by nitrates, only inverts and coral, etc.

EDIT: If you want to check your water, go on ebay and get your self a TDS meter.

 

[Revo Rancher]

Bouzuki, I know you are not a fan of using starter fish to complete the cycle, but when the nitites are going up, in my day of tanks, adding a fish or two helped get the bacteria going on the natural coral sand. Is there shift in the hobby on this? If so, why? I always avoided adding them during the ammonia spike, but (depending on tank size) you added a couple or few fish in the nitrite cycle you guaranteed a good bacteria growth. In the canister filters it was hard to get the bacteria to start to grow if you were using high surface area materials, (plastic stars, etc.) so the fish waste helped it a lot.And you are right, live rock is the best overall, but I have watched a lot of tanks rot the live rock, too.

 

[Bouzouki]

Canisters = no no

Revo, instead of adding fish, anyone can simply drop a few flakes in the tank every few days instead.

IMO, i'd

 

[jetmechG550]

If you have a canister you can use it for water movement/circulation but don't run anything inside. I really suggest this site:
www.reefcentral.com
It's a great forum with 85,000 members
I also recommend the book:
"The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Robert Fenner
Bouzouki hit pretty much everything. You can use a cocktail shrimp to get your cycle going, it seems to be the most common method nowadays. Just get 1 shrimp from the grocery store or fish market and put it into something like a nylon sock or old pair of pantyhose and place it in the tank. It should take anywhere from 3-5 weeks to cycle. Wait for fish! Patience is the greatest thing you can exhibit with reefkeeping. Don't get damsels, you soon grow tired of them, cycling the tank with them is very hard on them, and they are very territorial so adding fish later on could become a problem. Use RO if at all possible, the output on the one you picked up is pretty decent and will serve your needs well. I have several 5 gallon buckets that I store water in so I have water ready to go at any time. Right now, you'll be fine with your water, IMO, you'll most likely get an algea bloom but you'll have it anyway with a new tank. Just keep the lights out or run them at minimums. Good luck with it, it is quite an enjoyable hobby. And like RC's it will open up another hole in you wallet. Take the time now while the tank is cycling and start to plan your tank inhabitants, read, and ask lots of questions.

 

[jammin]

I agree with Bouzouki hes right on. For your water problem what i always used before adding any thing, was i added aqua clear before adding the salt or anything else. It cleans it and gets rid of the bacteria. That will probably clear up your water issue. Along with Bouzouki's posts

 

[jetmechG550]

If I remember correctly, Aqua Clear is for tap water and it is supposed to neutralize some chemicals in regular old tap water. I don't believe it kills bacteria and you wouldn't want to do that since that is how your cycle will start.

 

[.21Rc10GT]

Well i talked my mom (the main supply of $) into getting some live rock. It will be around 60 lbs of rock. Can i stack the rocks any way i want, or should the live rock be on top of my other rock, so it gets light?

 

[jetmechG550]

Stack it around however you feel it looks nice. There is no right or wrong way. It's called aquascaping and you can get as creative as you want. Just a few things to keep in mind.
1) Provide cover for your fish, they love to swim in and out of those little caves and they will head there when it's lights out.
2) Make sure it's stable, you don't want a piece to fall and hit the glass, it could crack easier than you think. Or even fish, shrimp or coral for that matter
3) Leave yourself plenty of room around the sides and front of the tank (moreso the front) to clean the glass

You can make an arch with pvc pipe and tie wrap or epoxy the rock to it. If you use ty-wraps, they will become encrusted in coraline over time and blend in. And just to add, you'll always want more rock. Not sure how far you are from LAX but there's a decent place there with good prices on rock. Also since you are just starting up you can stand to get a lot of rock via mail order and not have to worry too much about it curing. Premium Aquatics has decent prices even with shipping. I think there's also a place in San Diego that does rock and sand sales through Scripp's and the University.

 

[.21Rc10GT]

Alright. I think I'm gonna order 45lbs of live rock. If that will be enough to suit my tank, then I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna check out Premium Aquatics (thats where i bought my lights from) and Live Aquaria. I plan on gettin my fish from Live Aquaria. By the way, I'm close to Sacromento, well thats the closet major city.

 

[jetmechG550]

There should be something up that way for ya. CA is great for LFS in general. I was talking to the owner of the one I frequent and he said there actually only like three or four cities that are the best places to be as far as getting the freshest quality stuff. LAX of course, I think he mentioned Chicago and Newark and then Indy. Indy because this is where FedEx's international hub is located. I have been in Premium Aquatics and while it doesn't look like much from the outside, they have about anything you could think of wanting at competitive prices. The people there will go out of their way to help you and they really do get some quality livestock. If you call em, and they don't answer, leave a message they will call. Get on their website during regular hours and you chat with the "experts" if your needing advice. They won't try and sell you something you don't need or is out of your budget. I'm lucky I guess, they are open to the public every saturday from 12-3 or if you buy something during the week you can arrange local pick up. Best of luck with the new tank, it does become as addictive as these little cars and trucks we chase around. If you ever have any ????'s feel free to get in touch with me. I'm sure Bouzouki feels the same, he has a really nice looking tank from the pics he's posted. Don't forget reef central either.

 

[mxboy100]

For adding fish, start adding in some damsels in the 1st month, and then let the ammonia build up, use a test kit, once the ammonia builds up, it will drop and then there will be an increase in nitrite, once ur nitrite goes down then u r set to start slowly adding in fish.
I just tore my tank down, i had a 45 tall, and i had a dwarf lionfish, halrequin tuskfish, and some other wrasses. U have to be opn top of the water conditions on saltwater.

 

[jetmechG550]

For adding fish, start adding in some damsels in the 1st month, and then let the ammonia build up, use a test kit, once the ammonia builds up, it will drop and then there will be an increase in nitrite, once ur nitrite goes down then u r set to start slowly adding in fish.
I just tore my tank down, i had a 45 tall, and i had a dwarf lionfish, halrequin tuskfish, and some other wrasses. U have to be opn top of the water conditions on saltwater.

This is exactly how you DON'T want to cycle a tank.

 

[.21Rc10GT]

This is exactly how you DON'T want to cycle a tank.

Yeah, i know that now... The LFS in Sacromento, that sold me the filters and such, told me this was the way to do it. But, in reading through this thread and on Reef Central, it is not a good idea because it stresses the fish too much. Thanks for all of your help guys. I will post here if i need any more help.