Saltwater Fish Keeping and Help.

[vgibbens]

RC10, if you're on a budget, see if you can have your LFS order some uncured live rock. Often times it's a cheaper way to go than ordering from Live Aquaria, although I haven't checked their prices in over a year. See if you can have an order piggy backed with the stores. Last time we did this, we only paid about $2.15 per pound shipped for Fiji rock. The uncured rock will accoplish all of your cycling needs, but may make your house smell like low tide for a few days. Enjoy the hobby!

 

[.21Rc10GT]

Well, i ordered from Premium Aquatics. Live rock will be here Friday. I will have my lights set up then too, so it should work out great. I went with the cured rock.

 

[vgibbens]

Well, the rock will still need to recure a little anyway, so just let it do it's thing for a few weeks. When it settles down, add fish slowly waiting at least a week between additions to play it safe. What type of fishes are you planning on?

 

[.21Rc10GT]

Well a combo of fish, snails, and shrimp. I know i can't have a lot of stuff, because there isnt much room. Anyway, here is my list:

2 clownfish - tank bread
2 yellow tailed damsels
1 yellow hawaian tang
1 Kauderns cardinal
2 blood red cleaner shrimp
1 fighting counch

If thats too much, let me know... I could do without the damsels, but my mom wants them because they are colorful...

 

[jetmechG550]

Watch the tang, he'll get cramped in there soon. They grow fast and they like to cruise. Most tangs need big tanks. Also, the damsels will become monsters, they get very territorial. They are hearty fish to start out with but can be a real pain in the ass once they have a few tank mates. You'll like that Fiji from PA, they get nice stuff, I have a few pounds in my tank!

 

[.21Rc10GT]

By the time the fish get bigger, i will hopefully talk my parents into a bigger tank... What would you suggest for an alternative to damsels? I want something with color, and somewhat easy to take care of...

 

[RushRC]

I am assuming this is a reef tank idea now? Live rock is just that - it is alive. Filled with mico organisms and plants. You will find all kinds of things grow out of the rocks. You will also notice some stuff dieing off the rocks. This is normal when you use live rock to cycle your tank.
You can stack the rock to your liking but make sure it is sturdy - the last thing you want is for it to tumble in the tank.
What substrate are you using? It has been years since I have had a reef tank but it was a blast and it is so cool to watch coral and seaweed and other animals growing in your house.
What lighting are you using?
If you can find a shop or the place you are ordering the rocks from see if they have seaweed and grow it. You can then sell it to your local pet shop or trade it for fish. I will have to dig up some pics and post them of my tank.

Good luck on your new hobby!!!

 

[.21Rc10GT]

Thanks Rush... Well, I'm not wanting to grow corals, but if they come in with the live rock, then i guess i will do my best to house them. I'm going to be using a 36" VHO setup with 4 t-12 bulbs (two white and two blue antinc sp?). I'm using live sand as a substrate. I have another 20 pound bag I'm going to add (right now it is about 1.5 inches of sand, itll raise to a little over 2. Right around what I'm supposed to be at, from what i read.

 

[jetmechG550]

Clowns are great, there's so many different breeds. You may be able to get a smaller angelfish like a bicolor or even a coral beauty, especially if you plan to upgrade the tank size. But you should be ok with them in what you have. There's also gobies, the firefish goby has nice color. You use the liveaquaria or etropicals website to look at fish and get info on each one. I started my tank with three damsels (yellow tails) and two of them soon went after the smallest one and beat the hell out of him. After I had a couple more fish they tried going after them but where quickly put in their place. Eventually one them got bloat and I was left with one, it was mean and wouldn't die. I know of so many others in my reef club and around that have had the same experience with em. Triger's are cool fish, Picaso's and Niger's have good color but they will most likely take out your shrimp and crabs. Depending on the wattage of your lights, you may be able to support a bubble tip of long tentacle anemone. Makes a great home for the clowns but there's no guarantee they will host. Anemone's are hard to take care of though and should be something you plan down the raod after the tank matures.

Hey Rush, alot of people are doing FOWLR (fish only with live rock) nowadays. Kinda eliminates the need for other types of filters. Hitchhikers are great freebies unless you end up with a mantis shrimp.

 

[.21Rc10GT]

Yeah, thats the other fish i was looking at... The dwarf Flame angel... It looks neat, and doesn't get very big... Triggers are supposedly aggressive, and need a huge tank. Instead of damsels, i think i will go with the flame angel... my rock should be here friday, so i guess it will start its cycle when that gos in huh?

 

[vgibbens]

I was going to suggest a Flame Angel, my personal favorite fish. Give the Rock a little time and don't rush into things. Clowns are OK as your first fish, go ahead and add a small pair as your first fish if you want. The Flame should be the last fish into the tank. Royal Grammas are a nice colorful fish. Six-line Wrasses add a lot of movement to the tank. I would suggest adding some Astrea and or Cerith snails after the cycle is finished.

 

[.21Rc10GT]

I want to put a counch in there. I dont have a top on the tank, and i dont want snails falling out if they happen to crawl too far...

 

[vgibbens]

Never had a problem with those types of snails crawling out. I've heard of some Nerite snails crawling up above the water line and staying there as if they're waiting for the tide to come back in, and dying, but not Astreas, Trochus, Turbo, or Ceriths. Cerith snails will help keep the sandbed stirred up as the burrow into it. They will also consume Diatoms and some detritus in the rocks and sand. Astrea will stay on rocks and glass and clean up film algae and diatoms. Fighting conchs will help clean up the sandbed. I currently have two of them in my 60g at work. They do OK, but they don't take care of everything. You will want something to clean the rocks and the glass/acrylic, I would get the Astreas or Trochus snails for that. Some Scarlet reef hermits wouldn't be a bad idea either. Just tryin' to make things a little easier on you maintenance wise. You'll still most likely have to wipe the viewing panes down, but snails do help a little.

 

[.21Rc10GT]

Well, everything uses oxygen, and i dont want to have too many animals in there... Ill look into some snails and hermit crabs..

 

[vgibbens]

RC10, Here are some links to local marine groups on Reefcentral I believe are in your general area. You might check out one of their meetings. Most people are willing to give you coral frags, live sand cultures, etc. They could also be a good resource in finding out what shops are or are not good to visit for livestock. Maybe one of them breeds Clownfish locally.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=52

http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=298

http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=297

http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=173

http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=369

 

[.21Rc10GT]

Thanks, but none of those are close... I dont think my mom will want to take me to one. Ill have to wait till Dec. to get my license.

 

[jetmechG550]

Check out nassarius snails, they mostly live under the sand and do a great job of cleaning up detritus (fish poop) and keeping the bed stirred up. Flame angels are really nice, wish I could put one in but wouldn't go with what I have and I'm pretty much over loaded anyway. Get a decent test kit, you really don't want to chince there. You can get one of the starters that tests pH, nitrIte, nitrAte, and ammonia reasonable. Really need to watch your ammonia and nitrIte levels at first, once they spike and start to drop, watch your nitrAtes and you'll be on your way. It should be anywhere from 3-5 weeks, there's no set time frame, and it could happen as quick as two. Good luck, and keep us posted on how it comes along. And don't forget if you feel like asking questions, I'm more than willing to try and help you out as I'm sure the other guys here are too.

 

[mxboy100]

Actually, i do know how to cycle tanks exactly, i have a 90 gallon reef tank as well as a 45 tank. I know how to cycle a tank.

By the way, angels, be careful, they like to nip at everything. And kinda hide a lot. But they are beautiful fish. specailly dwarfs

 

[.21Rc10GT]

Well, i have the tank up and going, again... I got my LR today and set up my lights above the tank... There were a few dead shrimp lookin things that floated off of the rock, no biggy, the filter picked it up. I also added my last bag of LS before i put the LR in. The water is almost fully clear now. When should i expect to see the tank starting to cycle? The readings i got this morning were: Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, and nitrate 12.5. The hardness is 8.0 now and the ph is still sitting at 8.0. SG is at 1.024. Everything seems to be looking good so far... I'm hoping that the tank will cycle faster, but i will have to wait till everything is right. Will snails survive cycling?

 

[jetmechG550]

Snails might, but really you should wait til you see the spike in Ammonia and nitrIte. Patience is the biggest thing right now, I know and everyone else who has done saltwater knows how hard it is to do, especially when you are just looking at an empty tank. After a while you'll see some critters start to emerge from that rock. Best time to see it is at night with a flashlight. My neighbors have to think I'm crazy seeing the flashlight in the middle of the night. Does your lighting system have moonlights?