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Paul O'neill and others. Ready to admit the Obvious?
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As far as Iraq yes we should have done it right the first time. When I look for justification of U.S. (my troops and family) Fighting the war in Iraq a very vivid memeory comes to me.
Right after bahgdad fell there were hundreds..probably close to thousands of people gathered at one of his compounds. To loot? to kick him while he was down? To enforce justice? To reak their vengace?
No. They were there looking for family members, and friends who had been taken by the government not for the last 5 years, but for the last 30yrs plus. They were praying that there was a hiden prison filled with the thousands of people scooped up by the government.
The harsh reality is that after severe torture and punishment they were put to death. Women, and children included. Husbands fathers sons and daughters guilty of nothing other than "possibly" speakig out agains their leader.
A few days later the U.S. found a warehouse full to the rim with thousands upon thousands of skeletal remains. Many shot execution style. The sheer size of the warehouse and it's contents made me physically ill.
Right after bahgdad fell there were hundreds..probably close to thousands of people gathered at one of his compounds. To loot? to kick him while he was down? To enforce justice? To reak their vengace?
No. They were there looking for family members, and friends who had been taken by the government not for the last 5 years, but for the last 30yrs plus. They were praying that there was a hiden prison filled with the thousands of people scooped up by the government.
The harsh reality is that after severe torture and punishment they were put to death. Women, and children included. Husbands fathers sons and daughters guilty of nothing other than "possibly" speakig out agains their leader.
A few days later the U.S. found a warehouse full to the rim with thousands upon thousands of skeletal remains. Many shot execution style. The sheer size of the warehouse and it's contents made me physically ill.
StrechM
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lykan, I take it that you were there?
NA,
An interesting article inThe Wall Street Journal Online today."Isn't My Book". Check it out. Covers ground about his recent interveiws and some of his actual thoughts on the matter.
The Paul O'Neill recanting begins.
NA,
An interesting article inThe Wall Street Journal Online today."Isn't My Book". Check it out. Covers ground about his recent interveiws and some of his actual thoughts on the matter.
The Paul O'Neill recanting begins.
I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear. I was never in Iraq, nor in the military. I tryed to sighgn o at 20 yrs old to be a Navy airplane mechanic. During the physical at MEPPS they deemed my asthma too sever to join ;( Afraid I would pass out in combat I suppose ;(
I consider the armed forces a part of my country and therefore my troops as well. I also have family who are in the armed forces.
All I saw were the pictures. I don't always belive the news. When I see a little blurb or a quick picture, that is immediately layed to rest I try my best to reaserch it and get the real story.
I have found that sometimes the biggest storys are most often swept quickly under the rug.
The scene at one of Saddam's palaces with thousand of people looking for relatives was a short blurb, and quickly dropped to the sidelines, as was the warehouse.
Ironic how once the newness of the war wears off the vultures come to pick apart how it's played out, and the reasons behind it. The fact is we are there now. Lonely troops are getting shot at daily. They deserve nothing but support.
Regardless of how I feel about the war, I feel My troops, my family and my country are abroad fighting. Most troops have no choice in the matter. I am, and always will be 100% behind them
I consider the armed forces a part of my country and therefore my troops as well. I also have family who are in the armed forces.
All I saw were the pictures. I don't always belive the news. When I see a little blurb or a quick picture, that is immediately layed to rest I try my best to reaserch it and get the real story.
I have found that sometimes the biggest storys are most often swept quickly under the rug.
The scene at one of Saddam's palaces with thousand of people looking for relatives was a short blurb, and quickly dropped to the sidelines, as was the warehouse.
Ironic how once the newness of the war wears off the vultures come to pick apart how it's played out, and the reasons behind it. The fact is we are there now. Lonely troops are getting shot at daily. They deserve nothing but support.
Regardless of how I feel about the war, I feel My troops, my family and my country are abroad fighting. Most troops have no choice in the matter. I am, and always will be 100% behind them
Nitroaddict
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Speaking of the first Iraq war, I was there, shortly after the cease fire, albeit not on land. Cannot speak of what I did, other than my MOS - CTi2(SS/DV) - you figure out the rest. I can tell you, however, that when the war was over, Bush Sr. announced to the people of Iraw to revolt, rise up against Saddam, and fight! Well, they did, as we stood there, not firing, not helping, looking the other way while 20,000 Kurds marched to their death because we told them to, while they were under the pretense that we would help them fight. Makes me sick. The details of what happened after the war was a contributing factor as to why i didnt reenlist the second time around.
scottm
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I disagree with you NA. Thanks to our freedoms, like the first and second amandments, we are free to disagree and to express the fact that we disagree. And thanks to the guts of George Bush, millions of other people in the world are experiencing freedom and democracy (for better and worse, just like us) for the first time.
Its dangerous to talk about politics or religion with anyone, especially with friends. It can lead to seriously hard feelings. So here goes, some of you won't like hearing this.
Entertainers who force their opinions on everyone are my pet peeve. I never had a problem with Sean Penn, Alec Baldwin, Bill Mahre, etc, until they spout off their anti-american crap. Then they complain that they are being sensored for speaking out, when they are really just being rejected by consumers. The celebs are free to say anything, and so are consumers free to buy what they want. What celebs don't understand is that people want to watch a movie or listen to music to escape reality for a while, not to be reminded that the actor is a hypocrit and/or a traitor.
Need an example? Jane "Hanoi Jane" Fonda once sat in the lap of a VC soldier, looked at the camera, and said "America, we should all pray to one day be communist". Oh yeah? how many millions has she made off her movies and workout tapes?
Sean Penn and some others went to Iraq to be human shields. (Why wasn't he at work instead? Where did he get his money? Oh yeah, from consumers watching his movies.) They wanted to sit in schools and hospitals, and were shocked when iraqis wanted them to stay near anti aircraft missles and other military hardware, deliberately placed in civilian areas. The fact is a bunch of human sheild wanna-be-traitors came home early, with a complete change of heart, after hearing a huge percentage of iraqi people tell them how wrong they were, and how much they suffered under Hussain. That was hardly front page news with the media, but it is true.
Isn't it ironic the celebs are so anti-american? What do they think Hussain did to iraqis who spoke out? I saw a video where his goons threw blindfolded guys off a 3 story roof, and cut tounges out with a razor blade. Can Sean Penn appreciate the fact that that doesn't happen to him? So why don't iraqis deserve freedom too? Heck one of the sons murdered an olympic athlete who lost a boxing match.
And speaking of media, it is a fact that liberals have controlled all media for at least the last 50 years. Speaking of hanoi jane, her ex is Mr Hanoi Jane, Ted Turner, of CNN. Talk about bias, Jane left him because he was TOO LIBERAL for her. It is only recently that conservatives found an outlet for their beliefs, with talk radio, then the internet with bloggers and the Drudge Report, and now Fox Network news. (Rupert Murdock of Fox is my hero. If it wasn't for him, Time/Warner, ted Turner and a couple others would control virtually all tv and print media).
So the recent animosity and polarization in Congress and around the country is mostly due to liberals' bitter reaction to learning how many people disagree with their annoited opinions, and how eager people are for the other side of the story. I almost fell on the floor laughing when a Dem candidate in Florida complained about the "conservative bias" in the media now!
So Bush wanted to get rid of Saddam all along? That's fine with me. I won't forget arabs all over the world cheering for 9-11, or the monument to it found in Iraq. Saddam paid the familys of suicide bombers who blow up school busses and restaurants in Israel. There are no words adiquate to describe how despicable they are, and by alliance, Saddam too. Bush has taken a stand: If you support and enable terrorism, from suicide bombing to 9-11 attacks on the US, you are an enemy of the US, and we will take you out, in defense of ourselves, of other innocent people, and in the name of civilization itself.
Sure there will be hardship and expense in the short term, but it has already paid off. Within weeks of the Taliban route in Afganistan, Algeria allowed women to vote for the first time, and other similar changes are taking place all over the arab world. The Taliban were the headwaters of extreme islam, and all countrys had to bow to their influence. Now they are gone. Saddam was the next biggest influence, now he is gone. Does anyone think it is a coincidence that Kadaffi gave up his anti-western stance? No, it is due to seeing like minded dictators get thier asses kicked, and seeing how happy their people are that the dictators are gone. Iran and Seria are thinking about the same things right now.
I am betting that Bush did the right thing, and this era will be remembered as the turning point, when terrorism-is-good Islam is rejected for modern secular society and joining civilization.
Whew, I'm done. I may never say another political thing around here, at least not tonight.
Its dangerous to talk about politics or religion with anyone, especially with friends. It can lead to seriously hard feelings. So here goes, some of you won't like hearing this.
Entertainers who force their opinions on everyone are my pet peeve. I never had a problem with Sean Penn, Alec Baldwin, Bill Mahre, etc, until they spout off their anti-american crap. Then they complain that they are being sensored for speaking out, when they are really just being rejected by consumers. The celebs are free to say anything, and so are consumers free to buy what they want. What celebs don't understand is that people want to watch a movie or listen to music to escape reality for a while, not to be reminded that the actor is a hypocrit and/or a traitor.
Need an example? Jane "Hanoi Jane" Fonda once sat in the lap of a VC soldier, looked at the camera, and said "America, we should all pray to one day be communist". Oh yeah? how many millions has she made off her movies and workout tapes?
Sean Penn and some others went to Iraq to be human shields. (Why wasn't he at work instead? Where did he get his money? Oh yeah, from consumers watching his movies.) They wanted to sit in schools and hospitals, and were shocked when iraqis wanted them to stay near anti aircraft missles and other military hardware, deliberately placed in civilian areas. The fact is a bunch of human sheild wanna-be-traitors came home early, with a complete change of heart, after hearing a huge percentage of iraqi people tell them how wrong they were, and how much they suffered under Hussain. That was hardly front page news with the media, but it is true.
Isn't it ironic the celebs are so anti-american? What do they think Hussain did to iraqis who spoke out? I saw a video where his goons threw blindfolded guys off a 3 story roof, and cut tounges out with a razor blade. Can Sean Penn appreciate the fact that that doesn't happen to him? So why don't iraqis deserve freedom too? Heck one of the sons murdered an olympic athlete who lost a boxing match.
And speaking of media, it is a fact that liberals have controlled all media for at least the last 50 years. Speaking of hanoi jane, her ex is Mr Hanoi Jane, Ted Turner, of CNN. Talk about bias, Jane left him because he was TOO LIBERAL for her. It is only recently that conservatives found an outlet for their beliefs, with talk radio, then the internet with bloggers and the Drudge Report, and now Fox Network news. (Rupert Murdock of Fox is my hero. If it wasn't for him, Time/Warner, ted Turner and a couple others would control virtually all tv and print media).
So the recent animosity and polarization in Congress and around the country is mostly due to liberals' bitter reaction to learning how many people disagree with their annoited opinions, and how eager people are for the other side of the story. I almost fell on the floor laughing when a Dem candidate in Florida complained about the "conservative bias" in the media now!
So Bush wanted to get rid of Saddam all along? That's fine with me. I won't forget arabs all over the world cheering for 9-11, or the monument to it found in Iraq. Saddam paid the familys of suicide bombers who blow up school busses and restaurants in Israel. There are no words adiquate to describe how despicable they are, and by alliance, Saddam too. Bush has taken a stand: If you support and enable terrorism, from suicide bombing to 9-11 attacks on the US, you are an enemy of the US, and we will take you out, in defense of ourselves, of other innocent people, and in the name of civilization itself.
Sure there will be hardship and expense in the short term, but it has already paid off. Within weeks of the Taliban route in Afganistan, Algeria allowed women to vote for the first time, and other similar changes are taking place all over the arab world. The Taliban were the headwaters of extreme islam, and all countrys had to bow to their influence. Now they are gone. Saddam was the next biggest influence, now he is gone. Does anyone think it is a coincidence that Kadaffi gave up his anti-western stance? No, it is due to seeing like minded dictators get thier asses kicked, and seeing how happy their people are that the dictators are gone. Iran and Seria are thinking about the same things right now.
I am betting that Bush did the right thing, and this era will be remembered as the turning point, when terrorism-is-good Islam is rejected for modern secular society and joining civilization.
Whew, I'm done. I may never say another political thing around here, at least not tonight.
Last edited:
I must say I really enjoy this forum. It gives me a place to read with others about what I enjoy the R/C hobby and others as well.
I tryed my best to keep my veiws somewhat low key. I just wanted to say although I may not agree with everyone here on this forum in this thread tonight. I do infact enjoy your company greatly.
Each of your opinions were/are a great read it's interesting to get some insight to how people think other than the locals here, or the media.
That being said I hope I didn't offend anyone, I love reading threads like this and getting others views. Threads like this are what make me fall in love with America all over again. Not only can we disagree, we can agree to disagree, and all walk away friends in the end.
I tryed my best to keep my veiws somewhat low key. I just wanted to say although I may not agree with everyone here on this forum in this thread tonight. I do infact enjoy your company greatly.
Each of your opinions were/are a great read it's interesting to get some insight to how people think other than the locals here, or the media.
That being said I hope I didn't offend anyone, I love reading threads like this and getting others views. Threads like this are what make me fall in love with America all over again. Not only can we disagree, we can agree to disagree, and all walk away friends in the end.
Hey NA, why dont we just let Saddam and all his cronies out of prison and throw them back on the street if it was wrong? How about if we put them all in your apartment. They can hang out with you and drink purple tea or some poop. You guys can bash Bush together in love.
Comparing my thinking to the Taliban is HISTERICAL!
I vote death penalty to anyone in prison for life every time the prison system comes back asking for more money. Put the petty crime, in prison cronies, to work in the hard labor camps. But have them actually doing something that bennefits the American society. Busting rocks does nothing, but completely disassembling all of the cars in all of the junkyards nationwide for recycling would be a good start.
Of course you know damn well I was kidding about going after someone kid or brother for a crime they committed right?????? I just dont agree with an eye for an eye concept. Because it isnt, not matter how you slice it. Usually the criminal takes more that what is ever taken from him if he/she is being subjected to death. So let me ask, what would you want done to a group of men who gang raped your mother while keeping her subdued in their basement and beat her for days on end until 2 months later when they finally beat her to death because she has no energy left even to be raped. What do you do with them? Rehab? Coffee talk? Prison for life?
fiddlesticks that! I load up the AR-15 myself and take care of business.
Just like the Taliban right??? No, sorry, but it would be the Taliban who raped and killed her.
I'm done with this thread. Every time you do this you just piss me off. Personally. And it shouldnt. You are too damn liberal for me to discuss politics with you. But at least I can burn on with you, have a beer and talk about nitro.
Comparing my thinking to the Taliban is HISTERICAL!
I vote death penalty to anyone in prison for life every time the prison system comes back asking for more money. Put the petty crime, in prison cronies, to work in the hard labor camps. But have them actually doing something that bennefits the American society. Busting rocks does nothing, but completely disassembling all of the cars in all of the junkyards nationwide for recycling would be a good start.
Of course you know damn well I was kidding about going after someone kid or brother for a crime they committed right?????? I just dont agree with an eye for an eye concept. Because it isnt, not matter how you slice it. Usually the criminal takes more that what is ever taken from him if he/she is being subjected to death. So let me ask, what would you want done to a group of men who gang raped your mother while keeping her subdued in their basement and beat her for days on end until 2 months later when they finally beat her to death because she has no energy left even to be raped. What do you do with them? Rehab? Coffee talk? Prison for life?
fiddlesticks that! I load up the AR-15 myself and take care of business.
Just like the Taliban right??? No, sorry, but it would be the Taliban who raped and killed her.
I'm done with this thread. Every time you do this you just piss me off. Personally. And it shouldnt. You are too damn liberal for me to discuss politics with you. But at least I can burn on with you, have a beer and talk about nitro.
Nitroaddict
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Chris - You have to remember on very important thing. What we say in these threads are our own personaly opinions regarding US policy and proceedure. Do look down on you based upon the political views you have, of which I strongly disagree? Absolutely NOT. You are entitled to your opinion, just as much as I am to mine. When someone actually gets so upset at someone's opinion or lifestyle that they stop becoming friends, then they are just as much a bigot as the people who belong to the kkk, nazi, ect.... We are all free to believe what we wish, that is why I love this country so much. I am by no means anti-american, i just have certain views that clash with a few political individuals. Standing up and protesting when you feel something unjust has been done - that IS american! Wether you agree with me or not, regtarding my political stance, just remember - the best part about america is that we can disagree, and no one is going to be thrown in prison because of it. I have no grudge against any of you, except maybe Kwong, for his total apathy towards making the world a better place. Otherwise, peace to all, and pass that sheeit!
NA,
Are you a Bush Basher, or do you just disagree with some of his policies?
-Ed
Are you a Bush Basher, or do you just disagree with some of his policies?
-Ed
Nitroaddict
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Eddie - I will fully admit that Bush has done some great things as president, just as I hope that many republicans will admit that Clinton has done some good things as well. But, like you, I will also admit that there are some things that he has done, and his cabinet has done that I strongly disagree with, and find borderline unlawful.
N/A,
Please list 3 thing that you admire about Bush.
Please list 3 thing that you admire about Bush.
Nitroaddict
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1. He is not a lawyer. Bush is the first president in history with an MBA. I respect this, and it makes me more apt to trust him when it comes to budget concerns.
2. He's got balls. Although I may not agree with everything he does, I do admire the gusto it takes to do some of the things he does.
3. He isnt afraid to ask for help. When first coming to office, he wasn't very experienced in national policy. It was nice to see him surround himself with people who knew what was going on.
2. He's got balls. Although I may not agree with everything he does, I do admire the gusto it takes to do some of the things he does.
3. He isnt afraid to ask for help. When first coming to office, he wasn't very experienced in national policy. It was nice to see him surround himself with people who knew what was going on.
StrechM
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NA, I'm very relieved to hear you say a few good things about W. I was truly starting to think that you enjoyed bashing the Republicans just because.
A good share of the media ie newspapers and tv for years have sided with the Democrats. It allows them more latitude with respect to content.
Clinton was not a bad person, he made a few mistakes as Nixon did although the price that he paid wasn't as high. He did due some great things for this country much like all of the past presidents have.
I admire poeple that will stand behind their beliefs.
A good share of the media ie newspapers and tv for years have sided with the Democrats. It allows them more latitude with respect to content.
Clinton was not a bad person, he made a few mistakes as Nixon did although the price that he paid wasn't as high. He did due some great things for this country much like all of the past presidents have.
I admire poeple that will stand behind their beliefs.
Thanks,
It makes your Umm, *interesting? political posts a bit more palatable from an entertainment stand point knowing that your not administration bashing without seeing some good.
Just trying to see where you are coming from.
Gotta go, Gilligan's Island is getting ready to come on. I prefer their political drama over this one.
Is the professor creating WOMD?
Is the Skipper going to announce that all the Coconut trees be cut down and tied together for exploration of life somewhere of the island?
Are the Howells going to hold a benefit to raise money so Marry Ann can run for leader of the island.
Will Gilligan be accused of abusing a monkey and get put on trial.
Will Ginger ever get laid?
:whistle:
To me these issues are more important than someone stating the obvious that JR wanted to invade Iraq. If you didn't know this before you voted, your an idiot. Bush should have used it as a campaign issue. If he did, there wouldn't have been an election dispute.
-Ed
It makes your Umm, *interesting? political posts a bit more palatable from an entertainment stand point knowing that your not administration bashing without seeing some good.
Just trying to see where you are coming from.
Gotta go, Gilligan's Island is getting ready to come on. I prefer their political drama over this one.
Is the professor creating WOMD?
Is the Skipper going to announce that all the Coconut trees be cut down and tied together for exploration of life somewhere of the island?
Are the Howells going to hold a benefit to raise money so Marry Ann can run for leader of the island.
Will Gilligan be accused of abusing a monkey and get put on trial.
Will Ginger ever get laid?
:whistle:
To me these issues are more important than someone stating the obvious that JR wanted to invade Iraq. If you didn't know this before you voted, your an idiot. Bush should have used it as a campaign issue. If he did, there wouldn't have been an election dispute.
-Ed
Nitroaddict
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Eddie - If I were Gilligan, the question would be "Is Ginger ever not going to get laid. She's so hot.
I LOVE IT BOYS, KEEP GOING.
STREEEEEEEEECH - A COCKATOO IS A BIRD. I'm no ornothologist(???) but i'ii try and describe it. Its about 1 to 1.5 feet tall. It has a crest (a group of feathers on its head that it can raise or lower depending on its mood, happy, playful, threatening) They hiss at things foreign (like you). They come in two colours ( that i know of)
A sulphur crested cockatoo - Brilliant white feathers with a yellow(sulphur) crest.
The Black cockatoo - which as the name desribes is black feathered with a red under wing feather, and a black crest (smaller that the sulphure's)
The cockatoo temprament(??) is playful and destructive. They have a beak like a pirate's parrot (large). They can destroy a clothes line full of clothes. They usuall hang in a flock of between 10-30. They attack your lemon trees just at the right time when the fruit is ripe (and other trees as well - farmers don't like them) They make alot of noise screaching etc...
I don't beleive the black ones are the same as the sulphur crested. The black ones don't like suburbia. They're in the bush. The white ones are in the city (generally)
They make great pets, they can talk. They dance and are playful. There's an expression that you carry on like a cockatoo. (or galar -but that's another bird).
KYOSHO 1
STREEEEEEEEECH - A COCKATOO IS A BIRD. I'm no ornothologist(???) but i'ii try and describe it. Its about 1 to 1.5 feet tall. It has a crest (a group of feathers on its head that it can raise or lower depending on its mood, happy, playful, threatening) They hiss at things foreign (like you). They come in two colours ( that i know of)
A sulphur crested cockatoo - Brilliant white feathers with a yellow(sulphur) crest.
The Black cockatoo - which as the name desribes is black feathered with a red under wing feather, and a black crest (smaller that the sulphure's)
The cockatoo temprament(??) is playful and destructive. They have a beak like a pirate's parrot (large). They can destroy a clothes line full of clothes. They usuall hang in a flock of between 10-30. They attack your lemon trees just at the right time when the fruit is ripe (and other trees as well - farmers don't like them) They make alot of noise screaching etc...
I don't beleive the black ones are the same as the sulphur crested. The black ones don't like suburbia. They're in the bush. The white ones are in the city (generally)
They make great pets, they can talk. They dance and are playful. There's an expression that you carry on like a cockatoo. (or galar -but that's another bird).
KYOSHO 1
