Nitro RS4 RTR3 Evo + nooby needs help

[iThreatty]

Okay as the title states I've been given a Nitro RC car as a gift for Christmas.
It came in the box etc it had a 350z shell etc.

Okay, yesterday it started up pretty damn fine it cut out a few times but it's not brand new it's from a friend. But we got it going for a good 20 mins plus and it was flying! The tank ran dry and I said alright that's enough for today. Engine was cool nothing hot etc the fuel I used was 20%

Now today I went to use it and the pulley was rock solid. Took out the spark plug or coil and it lit up fine. Pulled the pulley now and it was fine! Put the coil back and it was pretty stiff again. No where near as stiff but stiff still I gave it a few pulls and nothing happened.

I found out there was a crack in my fuel tank no idea how..It's not huge like hair line.

Anyway she will not start at all anymore. There is still compression and the glow plug glows a nice bright orange. I've read around and people are saying about these needles but no clue! Also I took the air filter off it was fine I believe it's the carb it's got I dunno 3-4mm gap hard to say!

So I'm clueless as to why she won't start but I'm detemined to get it working also worth noting I have tried a different glow plug still no start

 

[Sixtysixdeuce]

Not exactly clear on what your issue is, but I have basically extracted:

-You ran it empty (not a good idea, BTW)

-you then put it up (always set piston to bottom dead center for cool down, and preferably use after-run oil when finished)

-The next day you were unable to turn it over by pulling the ripcord?

-You are able to use the pull start with the glow plug removed?


Basically, there are three possibilities for an engine that doesn't want to turn over:

-clutch or clutch bearings seized

-engine internally damaged (seized)

-severely flooded (hydrolocked)

Since yours turns over with the plug removed, that eliminates 1 & 2 as possibilities. If it turns over fine with plug removed but not with plug installed, that tells us the bore is full of something that won't compress (liquid).

 

[iThreatty]

Yeah the engine turns over fine with the glow plug in and removed.

It's literally put the glow plug starter in an you can pull as much as you want. Won't start. It's quite stiff to pull the actual starter cord but not engine flooded stiff. I was wondering if it might be my glow plug? Not sure as it glows fine when I put it in the actual starter.

I'm gonna give my starter a good charge over night. I'm determined to get this working ;D

If it is 'hydrolocked' what's my best bet ?

I've read around an Heard about the needle things? I haven't touched then personally but apparently there are three? If anyone could explain these also it'd be great. In depth explan would be great e.g where they should sit etc one requires a flat head on my which is coming out the top near the carb.

Cheers for the reply btw.

 

[ThatGuy]

With a new motor, simply loosening the glow plug by just a hair might help you get it started. When the motor is running just tighten the glow plug back up again.

 

[SchrodeMode]

Read this. What temps are you running in? It'll be a little easier to turn over if you preheat the engine, I use a heat gun but many guys steal their wife's/girlfriend's hair dryer.

 

[Nitrotrout]

If your engine is hydrolocked, remove the glow plug, turn the car upside down and allow excess fuel to drain, then reinstall the glow plug.

First things first though. I would address that cracked fuel tank issue, even if its minor.
If the crack is all the way through the plastic, you'll have an air leak which
will cause tuning difficulties. Don't attempt to repair it, fuel tanks are cheap to replace.
I also recommend replacing the fuel tubing while you're at it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-HPI-NIT...Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20dc8069ae

Most used models don't include owners manuals. You should download and read the manual to familiarize yourself with your car..
Thttp://www.manualslib.com/manual/478637/Hpi-Nitro-Rs4-Rtr-3-Evo.html

it's got I dunno 3-4mm gap hard to say!

Your idle gap sounds way to wide to me. Adjust it to 1mm or diameter of a paper clip for starters.

 

[iThreatty]

Thanks so much for the replies ! Really appreciate it will read the guide and I done the solution for hydrolock turns over sweet as a nut now. Quite a lot of fuel came out. The gap is also just over 1mm now... Will try and start her tomorrow with the hair dryer trick too ! New fuel tank ordered!

 

[iThreatty]

Hmm still no start at all. Fired once then hasn't bothered again since. Contemplating chucking the thing in the bin as there is no sign of life.

Mind you my old one won't even start today. >.>

 

[iThreatty]

Worth noting I charged my glow plug starter all night last night so a good 9-10 hour charge and it died within like 5 attempts of starting it ? It makes glow plugs glow orange etc

 

[iThreatty]

Just noticed the glow plug I use only the bottom parts of the coil light the only other glow plug I have is noticeably smaller. Could this be the issue ?

 

[Sixtysixdeuce]

I'd get a new glow plug and a new igniter if I were you. Hobbico Hot Shot II for the igniter, don't mess around with cheapies.

 

[iThreatty]

Okay gonna get it!

Cheers for all the help guys appreciate it

 

[Nitro Nerd]

A few quick things:

1. Ignitor - I recommend a rechargable one as was mentioned above. I have a slew of them (expensive and inexpensive). Hot Shot 2 is nice - I have one, but the one below is just as good. At least it has been for me. It was my first ignitor and I have no idea how many starts it's employed, but it's been a LOT. Just throwing out an alternative - for the most part ignitors are a commodity. As long as they charge and hold their charge...that is all you need.
http://www.nitrorcx.com/72p-glowplug-igniter.html

2. When you say only the "bottom of the parts of the coil light up"...is it glowing at all?

3. I'm willing to bet your engine is still flooded.

 

[ThatGuy]

3. I'm willing to bet your engine is still flooded.

Do you think that maybe the throttle servo is pulling the carb open when he turns the radio on and needs to have the trim adjusted?

It seems like a possibility if the idle gap is adjusted, then you put the air filter back on and try to start it. You won't be able to see what's happening with the filter on.

 

[Nitro Nerd]

:no:

Do you think that maybe the throttle servo is pulling the carb open when he turns the radio on and needs to have the trim adjusted?

It seems like a possibility if the idle gap is adjusted, then you put the air filter back on and try to start it. You won't be able to see what's happening with the filter on.

So I think what could have happened is he unflooded it a bit, went to start it again...it fired for a second and he kept pulling..which just continued to flood it. A vicious cycle. Even if you don't "prime" by placing finger over the stinger, it's still pulling fuel into the carb. I don't even prime most of my engines. OP...try to unflood with the car upside down until your arm hurts. Seriously 40-50 pulls. THEN try to start it without priming. If it does not start, give it one quick pull with finger over stinger and try to start. Repeat until it gets started.

Again - I'm just going what's been described. First and foremost you have to rule out the engine being flooded. The other day my neighbor could not start his Savage. He tried all afternoon :no:. I kept telling him it was flooded, but he assured me he unflooded it. He eventually gave up and left it with me. First thing I did was unflood it, and the engine fired right up.

These enines are so easly to flood it's not funny. And if you're hydrolocked---you are simply wasting your time trying to start it.

Regarding your question, an engine can start if the idle is "too big". Once I did not have the right model selected on my tx and the throttle was ~3/4 open on my Mugen. It started and scared the crap out of me.

Also, I'd recommend he does not touch his throttle trim at all. The easy test is to turn everything on then press the carb barrel in. It should not move in at all. If it does, your link setup is wrong.

I'd just hate to see this guy start buying expensive glow ignitors and what not before he truly rules out it being hydrolocked. If his plug is glowing...it should start. It might not run very long...but it should at least start.

 

[iThreatty]

:no:

So I think what could have happened is he unflooded it a bit, went to start it again...it fired for a second and he kept pulling..which just continued to flood it. A vicious cycle. Even if you don't "prime" by placing finger over the stinger, it's still pulling fuel into the carb. I don't even prime most of my engines. OP...try to unflood with the car upside down until your arm hurts. Seriously 40-50 pulls. THEN try to start it without priming. If it does not start, give it one quick pull with finger over stinger and try to start. Repeat until it gets started.

Again - I'm just going what's been described. First and foremost you have to rule out the engine being flooded. The other day my neighbor could not start his Savage. He tried all afternoon :no:. I kept telling him it was flooded, but he assured me he unflooded it. He eventually gave up and left it with me. First thing I did was unflood it, and the engine fired right up.

These enines are so easly to flood it's not funny. And if you're hydrolocked---you are simply wasting your time trying to start it.

Regarding your question, an engine can start if the idle is "too big". Once I did not have the right model selected on my tx and the throttle was ~3/4 open on my Mugen. It started and scared the crap out of me.

Also, I'd recommend he does not touch his throttle trim at all. The easy test is to turn everything on then press the carb barrel in. It should not move in at all. If it does, your link setup is wrong.

I'd just hate to see this guy start buying expensive glow ignitors and what not before he truly rules out it being hydrolocked. If his plug is glowing...it should start. It might not run very long...but it should at least start.

I will order a new glow plug anyway as a spare can't hurt. To make it clear the glow plug itself th coil that's at the bottom e.g. spinning up to the top is the only bit that glows orange. The top bit doesn't glow at all.

But what you pointed out last is exactly what went through my head...even if it's not at full potential surely it will start?

I will try to unflood it more tomorrow. The trim itself seems fine e.g. when it originally fired up it just idled at what I'd presume is a nice idle. The carb is the only bit i'm hesitant on at the moment still... But yeah I will definitely try giving it a good unflooding and make sure. Btw when you say stinger what do you mean exactly?

Also - Is 20% fuel the right type? I read somewhere on a forum the OP recommended found to start with 25% but then the majority said it didn't make a blind bit of difference ?

I'm really appreciating the help atm. Unfortunately I haven't got her running yet but I'm not diving onto this as I'm not 100% sure what I'm playing with..

Is it worth uploading any pictures of it to help along with it ?

...AHHH i totally forgot!!! Can anyone send me a link/recommendation of the correct spark plug for this model nitro car? I tried looking on the spark plug and all it said was 120... stumped >.>

 

[Nitro Nerd]

Thanks for the follow up. It means a lot to guys who invest time to help and more importantly helps others that search for the same problem. I imagine come January there will be a lot of "I can't start my new nitro car" threads, so get it while you can. ;-)

--Definitely keep a volume of plugs on hand...it's the ignitor I'm saying you don't need.
--The glow plug should only glow on the bottom section where the coil is.
--Unflood until your arm hurts. Turn it upside down that really helps. Seriously, it's BY FAR the #1 reason those new to nitro engines cannot start one.
--By stinger, I mean the hole where the smoke comes out of the exhaust. Not sure what it's called - I've always called it the stinger. ;-)
--20% is fine. I would wager 100% of us on here could not tell the difference between 20% and 25%. Just ensure fuel is in good condition. Old fuel, or new fuel not stored properly will wreak havoc.
--So they are glow plugs not spark plugs. As for recommendations...where are you buying from and I'll send you some suggestions.

Or....if you can find an R4 plug or #6 (A3) get one of those.

 

[iThreatty]

Thanks for the follow up. It means a lot to guys who invest time to help and more importantly helps others that search for the same problem. I imagine come January there will be a lot of "I can't start my new nitro car" threads, so get it while you can. ;-)

--Definitely keep a volume of plugs on hand...it's the ignitor I'm saying you don't need.
--The glow plug should only glow on the bottom section where the coil is.
--Unflood until your arm hurts. Turn it upside down that really helps. Seriously, it's BY FAR the #1 reason those new to nitro engines cannot start one.
--By stinger, I mean the hole where the smoke comes out of the exhaust. Not sure what it's called - I've always called it the stinger. ;-)
--20% is fine. I would wager 100% of us on here could not tell the difference between 20% and 25%. Just ensure fuel is in good condition. Old fuel, or new fuel not stored properly will wreak havoc.
--So they are glow plugs not spark plugs. As for recommendations...where are you buying from and I'll send you some suggestions.

Or....if you can find an R4 plug or #6 (A3) get one of those.

Okay I looked around and this site seemed pretty legit.
http://www.modelsport.co.uk/glow-plugs/rc-car-categories/9930/993030

I linked it straight away to the Glow Plugs >.>

Any Help would be great ;D

 

[Sixtysixdeuce]

That's a whole page of plugs.

You'll probably do best with medium-hot or hot, and though you haven't specified which engine is in there, I'll assume based on RTR that it is the stock HPI engine, in which case you do NOT want a turbo plug. Different design, will not physically install in a standard head.

I mention that because people have bought turbo plugs for their standard engine thinking it was an upgrade, only to find out they spent $10+ on a plug they can't use at all.

 

[iThreatty]

That's a whole page of plugs.

You'll probably do best with medium-hot or hot, and though you haven't specified which engine is in there, I'll assume based on RTR that it is the stock HPI engine, in which case you do NOT want a turbo plug. Different design, will not physically install in a standard head.

I mention that because people have bought turbo plugs for their standard engine thinking it was an upgrade, only to find out they spent $10+ on a plug they can't use at all.

Yeah the engine is still stock. 3.0cc one. :whhooo: