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Actually you can get the Stampede VXL brushless and a 7 cell Nimh battery set up. Looking at the options there are a number of models you can get with the Nimh and brushless. Whether the motor is brushless or not doesn’t effect if it will run with Nimh or not. Yes I agree that LiPo is the better power option, that was not the point of this thread though.
I have not seen or read anything about the battery chemistry having any bearing on the motor being brushed or brushless. Sure with either motor a good LiPo would be the preferred, but I have not seen any info that Nimh will not run a brushless. Just looking for info… I am considering a Traxxas Stampede VXL and starting with 7 cell Nimh battery which according to Traxxas is good for 30+ mph. Then if not happy with it I could switch to 3s LiPo.
Thinking about a Traxxas Stampede VXL and using there 7cell Nimh initially, which they say is good for 30+ mph and then if I can’t stand it I could switch to 3s LiPo. Do you or anyone have any thoughts on the Traxxas chargers and batteries?
I have heard the batteries suck.
I have used LiPo for an RC plane about 10 years ago, still have the Zippy 1000 mah 2s batteries and a balance charger that charged them to 8.4v and never knew any better and never had a problem the couple years I flew the plane like that. Just wanted to get a decent, safe RC truck and play it safe with some Nimh till I see if this is something I’m going to get into longer term.folks used to use NiMh batteries in full on 1/8 castle 1515 castle setups before LiPo became popular. Brushless motors haven’t changed that much, if at all in that time frame. Castles literature for their MM2 still states that NiMh use is okay for instance.
It wasn’t ideal and left a lot to be desired though. LiPo is definitely the better choice…
NiMh use is not just limited to brushed setups or crawler. A 1/10 mild brushless system like the bl-2s won’t put that much strain on a good quality NiMh. OP has already stated he’s not interested in LiPo usage and I can respect that. He’ll come around eventually though just like we all have
To address OP’s concerns… LiPo’s are perfectly safe if stored and charged correctly. We like to exaggerate the dangers of them so people take those dangers seriously, but like with most things in life… there’s risk involved. The cell phone/laptop/tablet you used to write this post has a lithium battery in it. They won’t just spontaneously combust. Take that information and do what you want with it, I’m not going to push you to do something you don’t want to do. NiMH will work fine for what you want to do, just don’t expect it to perform as well as you want it to. Education is key to LiPo safety. Good chargers, good quality packs and commons sense will reduce the risks to almost zero. The old timers in here can tell you how nasty it is when a NiMh cell pops, so even those batteries have their risks.
Greywolf is our resident battery expert. He gave you some good advice.
A fully charged 2s LiPo is supposed to be charged to 8.4v per cell. So you were charging them correctly. Each LiPo cell has a nominal voltage of 3.75v (that's why you store them between 3.7-3.8v per cell). 4.2v is their max charge. Never go above that. LiPo chargers are set to charge the cells to max, then they go into balance mode and drain the cell off through the balance plug to keep it at 4.2v.
Totally agree. I'm looking for recommendations on alternatives to Lipo.
Let me know if you find anything interesting, kinda thinking about Traxxas Stampede VXL or BL-2s. You can buy Nimh batteries and chargers from them for that model that are rated for 30+ mph. I seen other posters that aren’t fond of there batteries and chargers though. The other thing is if you were unhappy with the performance of the Nimh with those models one could always upgrade to LiPo with no other mods.
I am thinking that I could end up going LiPo, just thinking of starting back with Nimh (i have flown an RC plane with Nimh and LiPo) I am hearing some of the posters saying to stay away from the Traxxas batteries and chargers. What are some of the battery and charger you would recommend? By the way the main reason I am considering getting into this is to have a RC truck that the dogs can chase and it will mostly be running through grass that is kept at a average height of the average lawn. Thanks for your input.folks used to use NiMh batteries in full on 1/8 castle 1515 castle setups before LiPo became popular. Brushless motors haven’t changed that much, if at all in that time frame. Castles literature for their MM2 still states that NiMh use is okay for instance.
It wasn’t ideal and left a lot to be desired though. LiPo is definitely the better choice…
NiMh use is not just limited to brushed setups or crawler. A 1/10 mild brushless system like the bl-2s won’t put that much strain on a good quality NiMh. OP has already stated he’s not interested in LiPo usage and I can respect that. He’ll come around eventually though just like we all have
To address OP’s concerns… LiPo’s are perfectly safe if stored and charged correctly. We like to exaggerate the dangers of them so people take those dangers seriously, but like with most things in life… there’s risk involved. The cell phone/laptop/tablet you used to write this post has a lithium battery in it. They won’t just spontaneously combust. Take that information and do what you want with it, I’m not going to push you to do something you don’t want to do. NiMH will work fine for what you want to do, just don’t expect it to perform as well as you want it to. Education is key to LiPo safety. Good chargers, good quality packs and commons sense will reduce the risks to almost zero. The old timers in here can tell you how nasty it is when a NiMh cell pops, so even those batteries have their risks.
Hota D6 Pro is the best charger in it's price range.
I've got some NiMH batteries for sale in the classifieds. I can check them again and see if they're any good.
No one is saying they wont technically work, People are just saying they dont work well compared to LiPo.
*DISCLAIMER*
I think Traxxas LiPos and chargers are complete overpriced garbage. I've not really used their NiMH packs except in a couple of nitro starter wands so I don't have anything I can say directly about those, but I can almost guarantee you that even if their cells are good, they will be overpriced compared to other brands.
Thanks for the info, it helps a lot, thinking hard about just living with LiPo’s but want to do it safely. I actually have some LiPo 2s batteries that I used in a RC plane, they are Zippy 1000 mah, never had a problem and they are about 8-10 years old and I stored them at 8.4v… never knew any better. I also bought a cheap HBX 903a from Amazon that came with 2s LiPo’s to dip my feet in the water. After “storage” charging, keeping them in an ammo can.No one is saying they wont technically work, People are just saying they dont work well compared to LiPo.
*DISCLAIMER*
All times are purely estimates. There are several factors that will dictate what kinds of run times you will get, including but not limited to:
The list goes on, but you get the point.
- How aggressively you drive
- The type of terrain you drive in
- The rig itself (tire size, gearing, motor/ESC combo, etc)
- Battery quality
I would guess (and I have to guess because I have not used anything except LiPos since the late 80s, early 90s.) that you're going to get somewhere between 7–15 minutes of run time with 9-12 probably being average. Let's just say for the sake of argument that you're getting 15 minutes of run time consistently because NiMH/NiCD technology has improved since I used them in rigs. The thing that's going to ruin half of that 15 minutes of run time is voltage sag. Now, let me explain what I mean by that. When you start discharging a NiXX (NiMH or NiCD) pack in a rig, the voltage starts to drop almost immediately and will continue to drop until the pack is too low to operate the rig. What does that mean for you? It means that the whole time you're playing with your rig, the battery voltage will be steadily decreasing. The lower the battery voltage the slower the rig is going to go, so even if you achieve (and you probably will) the rated speed of the rig, it will not maintain that for more than 3-5 minutes tops, and then you'll notice it's going to start slowing down. It will still run for the duration of the pack but at some point roughly halfway through the pack's charge it will be slowed down enough where you're not going to be having fun so you'll end up stopping at some point roughly halfway through the pack's charge.
One more thing to consider. A 5000mAh Traxxas 7 cell NiMH pack is rated at 7C, meaning the maximum amount of amps that pack can safely provide is theoretically 35A. The crappiest LiPos out there can safely discharge 90+A. So if you have a rig that's pulling on average 50A (I have no idea what the Stampede VXL's amp draw is) a NiMH is going to be continually pushed past its max rating, meaning it will wear out much faster than it should. That same amp load on a LiPo won't even make that LiPo break a sweat. This means that the NiXX pack is going to get much hotter than a LiPo and that excessive heat will lead to decay of the battery cells and lead to poor performance. (This happens to LiPos too if you over tax a LiPo, but it's harder to do and therefore LiPos will generally last much longer than NiXX packs under the same conditions.
LiPos on the other hand have a much flatter discharge curve, meaning they hold a much more consistent voltage. This combined with the fact that LiPos are more energy dense means you will have maybe something like 20–30 minutes of actual run time and somewhere around 80-90% of that run time will be fun run time because the rig is able to drive like it should the majority of the pack. Let me show you a couple of example of what I mean about the discharge characteristics of these two different types of batteries.
If you look at the graph below, both the LiPo and the NiMH pack start out at roughly 8.4V, but you can see that the NiMH falls to about 6.2V almost instantly and then continues to fall until the pack reaches about 5.3V when they cut off the test. The LiPo on the other hand only drops about .5V initially and maintains between 7-7.5V for the vast majority of the pack. Even at the very end of the LiPos cycle, it still never even drops below 6.1V. So if higher voltage means a faster rig and LiPos run longer than NiXX packs, you can see why everyone is trying to steer you toward LiPos.
View attachment 216472
To sum up, do I think your idea about trying a NiMH in the Traxxas Stampede VXL is a good idea? Sure, try it out and as you said, if you're not happy with it, you can always run LiPos in it. Worst case is you wasted money on a NiMH pack
I think Traxxas LiPos and chargers are complete overpriced garbage. I've not really used their NiMH packs except in a couple of nitro starter wands so I don't have anything I can say directly about those, but I can almost guarantee you that even if their cells are good, they will be overpriced compared to other brands.
For a charger I'd recommend the HOTA D6 Pro which I believe can be had for as little as $90-$100 on AliExpress. If you don't want to wait for overseas shipping, you can get it for around $115-$125 stateside if I'm not mistaken.
As for batteries, I can't really give you any advice for NiXX packs, as I've not used any in a long time. For LiPo brands, see my chart below for the best brand and model LiPos to buy. The chart is listed from best to worst, but all the LiPos on that list are the ones I personally recommend based on personal testing. If you want more info on my battery testing or want to see the complete list of what I've tested so far you can find that at the link below.
LiPo Comparison Thread (LiPo and NiMH AAs)
View attachment 216473
I hope this helps.
That's what I noticed when one goes bad... it's usually just 1 cell.
By monitoring the IR (internal resistance) of the cells and using good LiPo practices, the vast majority of the time you will see problems coming before they happen. If you're doing those things, then generally speaking, the only time one is going to "go up" is if they get damaged during use. In all my time using LiPos I've ever only had 2 LiPos reach thermal runaway. (The technical term for when they "go up".) I have a mountain of LiPos which I store, charge, discharge and test inside my house in my hobby room. Of course, I take precautions while charging, discharging and testing but I've never had a LiPo reach thermal runaway from just sitting on a shelf.
Solid information as always! I can say, i have experience running a power cell 7 cell NiMh in a slash 4x4 VXL back in 2011(ish).No one is saying they wont technically work, People are just saying they dont work well compared to LiPo.
*DISCLAIMER*
All times are purely estimates. There are several factors that will dictate what kinds of run times you will get, including but not limited to:
The list goes on, but you get the point.
- How aggressively you drive
- The type of terrain you drive in
- The rig itself (tire size, gearing, motor/ESC combo, etc)
- Battery quality
I would guess (and I have to guess because I have not used anything except LiPos since the late 80s, early 90s.) that you're going to get somewhere between 7–15 minutes of run time with 9-12 probably being average. Let's just say for the sake of argument that you're getting 15 minutes of run time consistently because NiMH/NiCD technology has improved since I used them in rigs. The thing that's going to ruin half of that 15 minutes of run time is voltage sag. Now, let me explain what I mean by that. When you start discharging a NiXX (NiMH or NiCD) pack in a rig, the voltage starts to drop almost immediately and will continue to drop until the pack is too low to operate the rig. What does that mean for you? It means that the whole time you're playing with your rig, the battery voltage will be steadily decreasing. The lower the battery voltage the slower the rig is going to go, so even if you achieve (and you probably will) the rated speed of the rig, it will not maintain that for more than 3-5 minutes tops, and then you'll notice it's going to start slowing down. It will still run for the duration of the pack but at some point roughly halfway through the pack's charge it will be slowed down enough where you're not going to be having fun so you'll end up stopping at some point roughly halfway through the pack's charge.
One more thing to consider. A 5000mAh Traxxas 7 cell NiMH pack is rated at 7C, meaning the maximum amount of amps that pack can safely provide is theoretically 35A. The crappiest LiPos out there can safely discharge 90+A. So if you have a rig that's pulling on average 50A (I have no idea what the Stampede VXL's amp draw is) a NiMH is going to be continually pushed past its max rating, meaning it will wear out much faster than it should. That same amp load on a LiPo won't even make that LiPo break a sweat. This means that the NiXX pack is going to get much hotter than a LiPo and that excessive heat will lead to decay of the battery cells and lead to poor performance. (This happens to LiPos too if you over tax a LiPo, but it's harder to do and therefore LiPos will generally last much longer than NiXX packs under the same conditions.
LiPos on the other hand have a much flatter discharge curve, meaning they hold a much more consistent voltage. This combined with the fact that LiPos are more energy dense means you will have maybe something like 20–30 minutes of actual run time and somewhere around 80-90% of that run time will be fun run time because the rig is able to drive like it should the majority of the pack. Let me show you a couple of example of what I mean about the discharge characteristics of these two different types of batteries.
If you look at the graph below, both the LiPo and the NiMH pack start out at roughly 8.4V, but you can see that the NiMH falls to about 6.2V almost instantly and then continues to fall until the pack reaches about 5.3V when they cut off the test. The LiPo on the other hand only drops about .5V initially and maintains between 7-7.5V for the vast majority of the pack. Even at the very end of the LiPos cycle, it still never even drops below 6.1V. So if higher voltage means a faster rig and LiPos run longer than NiXX packs, you can see why everyone is trying to steer you toward LiPos.
View attachment 216472
To sum up, do I think your idea about trying a NiMH in the Traxxas Stampede VXL is a good idea? Sure, try it out and as you said, if you're not happy with it, you can always run LiPos in it. Worst case is you wasted money on a NiMH pack
I think Traxxas LiPos and chargers are complete overpriced garbage. I've not really used their NiMH packs except in a couple of nitro starter wands so I don't have anything I can say directly about those, but I can almost guarantee you that even if their cells are good, they will be overpriced compared to other brands.
For a charger I'd recommend the HOTA D6 Pro which I believe can be had for as little as $90-$100 on AliExpress. If you don't want to wait for overseas shipping, you can get it for around $115-$125 stateside if I'm not mistaken.
As for batteries, I can't really give you any advice for NiXX packs, as I've not used any in a long time. For LiPo brands, see my chart below for the best brand and model LiPos to buy. The chart is listed from best to worst, but all the LiPos on that list are the ones I personally recommend based on personal testing. If you want more info on my battery testing or want to see the complete list of what I've tested so far you can find that at the link below.
LiPo Comparison Thread (LiPo and NiMH AAs)
View attachment 216473
I hope this helps.
Just to continue the discussion, I'm curious to know if 5000mAh NiXX packs are actually 5000mAh. (Don't worry, I ordered one to test!) I say this because I know from rebuilding old cordless drill packs that the only Sub C sized cells (Same size cells that are used in stick packs you can generally find that claim to be 5000mAh are from China and are not 5000mAh. More like 3600-3800mAh. Now, granted, my data is a bit old because it's been about 10 years since the last time I messed with them, but I doubt anything has changed. Just in case it did, that's why I'm going to test a stick pack to see once I get it. The stick packs that you see labeled 3XXX are most likely really that mAh rating. 3800mAh is probably about as much as I've seen a legit Sub C put out. Also, I'm pretty sure this has not changed because if you look up batteries or packs from Tenergy (A Chinese battery company that actually makes good batteries and seems to state real specs instead of overblown specs) I can't find a single one rated over 3800mAh. That being said they do have single Sub C cells you can buy that do claim to be 5000mAh. I find that doubtful but if someone managed to make one it was probably them.Solid information as always! I can say, i have experience running a power cell 7 cell NiMh in a slash 4x4 VXL back in 2011(ish).
It was fine power wise and run times were somewhere around 15minutes if you waited until it just didn’t move anymore… although after 8-10 minutes it slowed down so much it was time to put it on a charger and wait. That was also a 3,000mah battery though. I’m sure you could do better with a higher capacity pack. Driving on high traction surfaces like pavement cut down on run time significantly, but it was servicable in the loose stuff. My friends and I didn’t even switch to LiPo’s for a decent amount of time as that’s what we knew and we were middle schoolers balling on a budget
I think OP will be fine personally as long as he’s running good quality NiMh packs. Until you experience the benefit of LiPo, it doesn’t really feel like you’re missing out on much. Once you make the switch though, you’ll never go back. LiPo’s are better in every conceivable way, but a stampede with a stock vilenion system isn’t going to implode because he uses NiMh. He’s just going to have to adjust his expectations IMO.
