New to 3d printing world- Ender 3 V3 SE

[D3MON]

as title says, i am pretty new to the 3d printing scene, been doing some odd bits here and there and been having a blast.
though i must say i think i have been having more fun designing stuff to print than the print itself, been having a blast in Fusion 360

originally main reason to get a 3d printer was for my scx24 Project Pheonix, as the person i was going to have print my items was in the process of full printer renovation (converting Ender 5 Plus to a merc zero g) and to get them printed by a private party would have likely cost more than buying myself a printer (110$)

shortly after i got it was having some major issues though with the nozzle hitting supports, and in some cases breaking off the print. though i believe i have gotten that under control, after fighting with adhesion (upgraded to a Comgrow PEI sheet, and flow rates.) it was really frustrating as the first few print with the filament provided with the printer went great, then the issues arose, even with the same filament.

been spending some time on misc projects/designs but always wanting to learn more and better way to do things. will be posting them in the rc projects section.

 

[WickedFog]

Bed adhesion is like the biggest problem new users face. Get that first layer nice and squished. Typically, if I am printing a darker color, I want to see some translucency in the first layer. Really light colors on my aluminum bed with glass plate tend to be almost invisible until it makes two or 3 laps around the perimeter. I print on glass. No glue unless I am doing big stuff.

If you were running into the part and or supports with your nozzle, that is a pretty sure sign your print is lifting, or there is some play somewhere in your Z axis.

 

[D3MON]

Bed adhesion is like the biggest problem new users face. Get that first layer nice and squished. Typically, if I am printing a darker color, I want to see some translucency in the first layer. Really light colors on my aluminum bed with glass plate tend to be almost invisible until it makes two or 3 laps around the perimeter. I print on glass. No glue unless I am doing big stuff.

If you were running into the part and or supports with your nozzle, that is a pretty sure sign your print is lifting, or there is some play somewhere in your Z axis.

that was definitely one of my first thoughts which is ultimately why i ended up getting an upgraded bed vs the stock creality, which definitely was a partial issue, and will need more fine tuning as far as Z-offset, first layer height etc. at this time i dont really want to spring for a glass bed, but who knows in the future.

once the issue first started arising, i noticed a few mechanical issues, the right side of extruder beam was approximately 0.5-0.7mm higher, so corrected that. then found some hardware had loosened up and extruder belt had some serious slack, after that was fixed i was still having issues.

upon further investigation, my bed was quite out of level (compared to the gantry), back left was approximately -0.8mm, and front right was +0.4mm!! i ended up shimming to accommodate and now everything is within 0.2 of each other. this seemed to help slightly but not much

even with that initially i was resorting to allowing z-hop which worked, but left it really stringy and i knew it was a band-aid fix until i could find the root of the issue.

i ran a vase test and found that with a 0.4m nozzle, i was seeing widths of 0.48, and per that calculation reduced to 85% flow rate and now i am not running into prints unless a have an adhesion issue (typically cleaning)

i am finding that i have to manually set my Z-axis down about .07 from what the machine says when leveling, going to be testing further and further down but as of now that really seems to be helping adhesion.

trying to learn how and what tests to run to calibrate it better but for the more rough prototyping i am doing it is livable but once i start going for actual final product it needs lots of work.

i really appreciate your input! everyone i have talked to about the issue seems to reverberate that first layer and adhesion is paramount and usually issues/frustrations with it can turn new people away from 3d printing.

 

[WickedFog]

How are you coming up with those numbers? Are you a machinist? Most people don't understand machine setup, but you sound a little bit experienced.

I was a CNC machinist/tooling maker and program engineer for 25 years before becoming disabled. I have been 3d printing with Creality printers for roughly 9 years, and I am the original designer of the bracing that Creality sells for the gantry style printers. The purple rods and green brackets in my 3d model of the CR10 here.

Creality gave me an S5 for them using (stealing) my design, and now a number of Chinese companies have stolen it as well, and are selling the kits on Amazon

I have torn these printers completely apart and hopped them up, changed main boards, steppers, drivers, etc. I have also setup Octoprint on my main one (I used to have 6 machines). I have experienced about every freakin' problem you can face with these printers over the years. So I have quite a bit of knowledge working with them.

Ok. A little 3d printing terminology too. The part up on top of the left side of the gantry with the stepper dtiving the filament to the hotend is called the extruder. A lot of people like to call the hotend the extruder, and helping them can get confusing.

You have to square up your machine in this order:
1. Base
2. Gantry uprights
3. Gantry rail

The very first thing I would do, is ensure the framework of the machine is as square as you can get it, and everything is tightened up good. To accomplidh this, the base of the machine needs to be on a level surface. Then check that the gantry uprights are square to the base in X and Y.

A note about the rollers on the machine:
It is very important that you can spin the rollers with a bit of force while holding the lead screw or belt controlling that axis, to keep that axis from moving while testing the toller tightness. Too tight and your rollers will wear out very quickly. Too loose and your prints will be crappy.

From there comes the fun bit. Leveling the gantry rail. This is done with the rollers on the gantry. If you got your gantry uprights good and square, you can just use a square to check the gantry to the uprights. If that is square, the gantry should check level.

Next up is leveling your bed. There are a number of files on Thingiverse you can download to use as a bed levelling print, but I create my own in fusion. I just create a 3d model in Fusion of .4mm walled squares and extrude them up .2mm. Slicing it should make one pass around each square.

A single line brim around your part, offset out away from your part about 10mm can also be useful for leveling the bed if you get good enough to level on the fly. You can do 3 or 4 passes around to give you more chances at turning the knobs while the bed is moving. Brims are also good for clearing debris from the nozzle at the start of your print, which is where most of your problems will occur. Let it mess up on the brim instead of your part

Every machine I have owned was off on all of this. So it is important to check this stuff.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

 

[D3MON]

How are you coming up with those numbers? Are you a machinist? Most people don't understand machine setup, but you sound a little bit experienced.

through high school i took as much metal working/engine rebuilding classes as i could, then went to an automotive tech school for automotive engine and transmission rebuilding and motorsport and chassis fabrication, that and i just really like design/engineering, figuring out how things work and or making things work. though i am pretty clunky at it.
at this time to get the numbers i am using a digital caliper, not quite a Starrett but i have a few double checks to make sure calibration is within a few thousandths, and using a few calibration blocks for elevation.

I was a CNC machinist/tooling maker and program engineer for 25 years before becoming disabled. I have been 3d printing with Creality printers for roughly 9 years, and I am the original designer of the bracing that Creality sells for the gantry style printers. The purple rods and green brackets in my 3d model of the CR10 here.

Creality gave me an S5 for them using (stealing) my design, and now a number of Chinese companies have stolen it as well, and are selling the kits on Amazon

I have torn these printers completely apart and hopped them up, changed main boards, steppers, drivers, etc. I have also setup Octoprint on my main one (I used to have 6 machines). I have experienced about every freakin' problem you can face with these printers over the years. So I have quite a bit of knowledge working with them.

That is awesome! not so much the part that your design was stolen though

Ok. A little 3d printing terminology too. The part up on top of the left side of the gantry with the stepper dtiving the filament to the hotend is called the extruder. A lot of people like to call the hotend the extruder, and helping them can get confusing.

ahh, thanks for the clarification!

The very first thing I would do, is ensure the framework of the machine is as square as you can get it, and everything is tightened up good. To accomplidh this, the base of the machine needs to be on a level surface. Then check that the gantry uprights are square to the base in X and Y.

A note about the rollers on the machine:
It is very important that you can spin the rollers with a bit of force while holding the lead screw or belt controlling that axis, to keep that axis from moving while testing the toller tightness. Too tight and your rollers will wear out very quickly. Too loose and your prints will be crappy.

From there comes the fun bit. Leveling the gantry rail. This is done with the rollers on the gantry. If you got your gantry uprights good and square, you can just use a square to check the gantry to the uprights. If that is square, the gantry should check level.

Next up is leveling your bed. There are a number of files on Thingiverse you can download to use as a bed levelling print, but I create my own in fusion. I just create a 3d model in Fusion of .4mm walled squares and extrude them up .2mm. Slicing it should make one pass around each square.

now in here is where i am slightly running into an issue.
after the first problems through the google rabbit hole, i did find people with similar problems having issues with screws being tight enough, so that is one of the earlier things i had done, alot of them were quite loose, though this did help and prints were coming out much "cleaner" the major issue persisted.
that said, the bed is level, and the bed and rail that the extruder rides on is level to that, i DO have some out of square (rack is typically what i call it but that might be the framer part of me and not accurate to what it is called in this scenario). the gantry vertical supports are leaning approximately 3-5mm at the top versus the bottom. but i don't really know how to fix this, the top of the gantry is parallel to the extruder rail and bed. and given there is no cross-brace to hold it in square, i am unsure how its supposed to be held at square. everything is tight on the frame. the plan was to try making some corner bracing to remedy this but i am at a loss on where to fix it to the frame.

 

[332_RC]

I'm a machinist, too. Math isn't my strongest point. Geometry is my thing. But we have to know how to get all sorts of stuff solved with equations & conversions to machine stuff. I are machinist- I cut metal 🕳

 

[jimdavis577]

I had bed adhesion problems from time to time on my ender 3v2 .... with the glass plate .... i found taking the bed temp up to the top temps of the material used it helps some what ... then also as noted getting a good squish on first layer is vital, as far as the "lean" you have that is pretty minimal, maybe a little play in the loose screws you had? i know on a lot of these they are not exactly machine fit. so a little slop in a lot of the holes and fitment ...... i would say just loosen the screws a bit and try to massage the piece where it needs to be....... this is a common issue with gantry bed shakers ...... I just upgraded to the K1 and its a completely different beast in a great way ...... love the auto level and faster print speed of this thing .... what use to take me 3-4 hours take a little over an hour now

 

[WickedFog]

the gantry vertical supports are leaning approximately 3-5mm at the top versus the bottom. but i don't really know how to fix this, the top of the gantry is parallel to the extruder rail and bed. and given there is no cross-brace to hold it in square, i am unsure how its supposed to be held at square. everything is tight on the frame. the plan was to try making some corner bracing to remedy this but i am at a loss on where to fix it to the frame.

This is where the supports I made come in handy. They work just like a turnbuckle. Simply turn the rod one way to extend and push the top of the gantry back, or turn the other way to pull it forward. It sounds like your uprights weren't cut square on the ends or something.

If the Ender is designed like every other gantry printer, tne way you can solve this is loosen the four screws under the printer that go into the uprights. Then loosen the T-bracket on the side of the printer that attaches the uprights to the base just enough to move the upright front to back. Square it to the bottom rail and tighten the T-bracket good. Make sure your T-nuts in the channel under the T-bracket stay rotated so they don't pull out. Then snug the lower bolts up. Not too tight, but pretty snug.

 

[jimdavis577]

This is where the supports I made come in handy. They work just like a turnbuckle. Simply turn the rod one way to extend and push the top of the gantry back, or turn the other way to pull it forward. It sounds like your uprights weren't cut square on the ends or something.

If the Ender is designed like every other gantry printer, tne way you can solve this is loosen the four screws under the printer that go into the uprights. Then loosen the T-bracket on the side of the printer that attaches the uprights to the base just enough to move the upright front to back. Square it to the bottom rail and tighten the T-bracket good. Make sure your T-nuts in the channel under the T-bracket stay rotated so they don't pull out. Then snug the lower bolts up. Not too tight, but pretty snug.

i agree with this wicked ........ it is a very time consuming to get it exacly right ... but worth it in the end .... and another key being once its setup ...DONT move it !!!! and make sure its on a firm solid mounted counter !!!!

 

[WickedFog]

Also, your Z axis stop can be adjusted down to lower your Z home position. Doing this will allow you to drop your bed to put more tension on the springs. The closer you get those springs to fully compressed, the better your bed will stay level. So get that limit switch down as low as you can. Make sure your bed is cranked all the way down first and drop that limit switch til you can just see a little daylight under the nozzle. I leave the limit switch screws just snug, test Z home, and tap the limit switch board down a little at a time til I get close. Tighten it back up then slowly move your Z around the bed and cheack it's not hitting. The bed leveling springs might be longer in one corner, leaving that corner higher. If you run into it hard enough you might damage your nozzle.

 

[D3MON]

This is where the supports I made come in handy. They work just like a turnbuckle. Simply turn the rod one way to extend and push the top of the gantry back, or turn the other way to pull it forward. It sounds like your uprights weren't cut square on the ends or something.

If the Ender is designed like every other gantry printer, tne way you can solve this is loosen the four screws under the printer that go into the uprights. Then loosen the T-bracket on the side of the printer that attaches the uprights to the base just enough to move the upright front to back. Square it to the bottom rail and tighten the T-bracket good. Make sure your T-nuts in the channel under the T-bracket stay rotated so they don't pull out. Then snug the lower bolts up. Not too tight, but pretty snug.

though i havent yet tested forwards and backwards (but need to), my lean isn't to the back/front, its side to side.
excuse the crude representation.

_______ <-Top of gantry
\ \
------- <-Extruder rail
\ \
-------- <- Bed

I've seen there are shims/wedges to install under the uprights, would this be the desirable solution? to me it feels like it would be difficult to do this with prevision and be constant throughout life of it as with pressure things deform over time and lean would come back. am i overthinking the pressure of the screws at the bottom to compress a wedge if made of 3d printed objects? in reality a metal wedge would be preferred but that level of precision to get 100% plumb is beyond my skill with a file, especially twice, as i don't have a milling machine or really any metalworking tools aside from hand tool and a dremmel.

Also, your Z axis stop can be adjusted down to lower your Z home position. Doing this will allow you to drop your bed to put more tension on the springs. The closer you get those springs to fully compressed, the better your bed will stay level. So get that limit switch down as low as you can. Make sure your bed is cranked all the way down first and drop that limit switch til you can just see a little daylight under the nozzle. I leave the limit switch screws just snug, test Z home, and tap the limit switch board down a little at a time til I get close. Tighten it back up then slowly move your Z around the bed and cheack it's not hitting. The bed leveling springs might be longer in one corner, leaving that corner higher. If you run into it hard enough you might damage your nozzle.

this bed i do not believe has springs, each corner of the bed has a plastic "pillar" with a screw through it to hold to the lower table/heating element frame. unless i am just not seeing them which i can definitely be blind sometimes, thus why i made some shims to accommodate for bed leveling.

 

[WickedFog]

Man, if you get a couple days without running your printer, I would remove the upright rails and take them to a machine shop and have them machine them square. If you ask them right, they may just take them back, pop them on the Bridgeport and buzz the ends off. It would take me about 3 minutes if there was a vise already setup. And chances are they have one ready to go. Hell, they could do it in the CNC even faster using the handwheel.