How does Infraction 3S drift so well? Can it be applied to 1/10 onroad cars?

[mechkbfan]

So background is I want to do drifting on asphalt/car parks in the slightly faster range, lets say 15-20mph (can be flexible there)

What I don't want to do slow drifting with hard plastic tyres / RWD, where if you get a bit of speed its like being on ice

How the Infraction 3S looks ideal, but I have some spare 1/10 onroad cars that I want the challenge of getting to drift like that. Doesn't matter if I fail, just want to have fun and experiment.

I've read a lot of mixed advice online, so was wondering how others would go about it here

Infraction 3s information
https://www.arrmaforum.com/showcase/infraction-3s.125/

Key highlights to me
- track is 255mm vs 190/200mm
- wheelbase is 335mm vs 257mm
- 2.85kg vs 1.4kg
- tyres solid belted so won't flex much
- 3900kv with 3s battery

Diffs
Common advice I've often seen is open front diff, locked rear diff for 1/10 onroad drifting
But this to me aligns with process of slower speed drifts, and not what people run in their Infractions

For Infraction, what I've read in forums, most people fill up front & rear diff with 10-20k
It has a center diff which I don't have, but not sure that is a huge aspect to it

I'd start with 10k oil up front/rear, maybe 20k in rear, and see how it handles. Maybe locked is the eventual way

Shocks
Want to get it to slide instead of traction roll, but also still have semi decent grip on front to steer
So medium springs up front, and stiff in the rear?
Similar with shocks, for more predictable slides feels like going a bit thicker than usual 300-400 would make sense
500-600 there?

Power
I've got spare 4100kv with 2s, which given my car is half the weight should be plenty

Tyres
This is my biggest challenge.
Obviously can't reuse Infraction due to their size, and all drift ones seem to be hard plastic.

I'm open to creative ideas,
For example I've never messed with tyre additives, but could I apply that to onroad tyres to change their behaviour?
Additionally, what's hardest foam I could fit into 26mm onroad tyres to minimise flex?


Anyone done this sort of project before?

I'm happy to accept it's a bad idea and may never work, but just repeating that I enjoy this sort of challenge

Edit: Found a great video from HPI from many years ago.
Watch from 1:15 to 1:25

 

[dustyroller]

You still need harder tires. You need a BIG area to drift at 15-20mph unless you are doing an oval and fig-8.

 

[Jamr]

Dude, just get a good brushless motor, 3s ESC with a fan and some Hoons DBoots (White) and start drifting.
Baby powder on the concrete floor helps too.
Seriously, you will be going through a lot of tires on asphalt. Stick to concrete if you can.
Crappy photo I know but it is hard to drift and take an image at the same time.

 

[mechkbfan]

You still need harder tires. You need a BIG area to drift at 15-20mph unless you are doing an oval and fig-8.

How hard though?

Like MST yellow, or other end of say blue?

https://images.amain.com/images/Link Images/MST-Tire-Chart.jpg

I've used Yokomo DRAA that were commonly recommended, and as soon as go over 15mph or so, try turn, the car just spins around / does circles

Maybe it's tuning, maybe it's tyres. That's what I'm trying to work out. I suspect it's still the tyres though

Yes I have a large area, otherwise I wouldn't be doing it

 

[mechkbfan]

Seriously, you will be going through a lot of tires on asphalt. Stick to concrete if you can.

Yes, I know. I've read most people go through a set of tyres every 1-2 packs. Fine with that

This is more about the journey in seeing how far I can go.

 

[xjtorc]

Lock those diffs up. Thats the only way you’re getting a controlled AWD drift. Get lockers or 1 million cst fluid.

You’ll want the hardest tires possible. I would find a cheap set of Amazon street tires. I would bet money they’re harder than anything out there lol.

Also, I share the sentiment with you on today’s RC drift scene. Gyro’d RWD cars slowly dragging their bums across a polished concrete drift track is too slow and boring for me. However, I’m not discounting the skill involved because I’ve tried it a couple times now and it’s freakin difficult to figure out lol

 

[mechkbfan]

Lock those diffs up.

Thanks, initially I did but the handling was terrible. It could have been other factors of course, hence I'm trying to find a better starting point.

My next run is 7k up front, locked rear.

I'll make sure I get a video tomorrow of the car out with Yokomo DRAA tyres so you can see what it's like

It's got a 3000kv / 13.5T motor in at moment, but have 4000kv spare if need be

I've also got a gyro but haven't used it yet. Too many other variables to play with first.

I found a video from HPI with a style that I'd be going for too. 1:15 for about 10 seconds. Edited my original post

See how they're driving straight, throw it into a corner, and it's a great consistent drift, then they're able to still turn the car at exit to initiate another drift

Happy to admit skill plays a large part but either way, my car does not great that great initial turn in. Feels a lot more like a pig / super unresponsive

 

[biggman100]

Any car can be made to drift, but, some, especially ones that are made for it, are just better at it. I have even had cheap Redcat cars that would drift, as long as they have the right setup, and, that's on street tires, not drift tires.

 

[dustyroller]

How hard though?

Like MST yellow, or other end of say blue?

https://images.amain.com/images/Link Images/MST-Tire-Chart.jpg

I've used Yokomo DRAA that were commonly recommended, and as soon as go over 15mph or so, try turn, the car just spins around / does circles

Maybe it's tuning, maybe it's tyres. That's what I'm trying to work out. I suspect it's still the tyres though

Yes I have a large area, otherwise I wouldn't be doing it

I’d even say the cheapest tires you can find. Like @xjtorc said they will likely be harder than anything else. You mentioned skill and that is very true too. Your gyro will help when sideways.

Stick with a simple modified fig 8 spaced out with cones so you have left and right slides.

 

[mechkbfan]

You still need harder tires.

You’ll want the hardest tires possible.

they will likely be harder than anything else.

I had a spare 5mins today and took my car to netball courts where can practice drifting. I took two really quick videos

Apologise in advance, it's a terrible video that's hard to see, and as well I was terrible too because kept experimenting with the car with throttle control, oversteering, etc.

Here's a video with TT02D tyres, which are really hard

Does it drift at slow speeds? Yes. Certainly has potential with more practice + gyro

Does it drift like I want it to? Not at all. It feels like a massive brick on ice.

- If I go remotely close to 10mph, it does 360's with no control
- It barely responds to turning input

Even comparing to the HPI video, their car seems to easily snap from straight/drift really quickly, and grab / straighten at the end of a drift.
I acknowledge skill does play a part, but there's nothing about this setup that even remotely shows it's capable of getting there.

-----------------

Next video is with KForce AliExpress tyres, that are a halfway point between hard plastic ones and onroad tyres

This one actually shows some promise, and the video doesn't do it justice. Drove it better later when I wasn't recording

But the two issues I had were

1. The rear end is really easily to loop around. Obviously some driver skill or gyro will be help, but there's definitely a setup change that I can make to make it easier.
2. Once I got a power slide going that seemed decent, it just seemed to lose speed even if had throttle at max. Wondering if this where I need to go up kv/3s?

Hope the videos help with describing where I'm trying to go with this

 

[xjtorc]

It's "diffing out". One of the rear wheels is lifting off the ground, the other is getting all the power from the drivetrain and causing the spin out.

If you lock the diffs, it'll alleviate spin outs. You'll be able to keep the drift going and control the drift with throttle. You don't need a gyro to drift awd touring cars. Just properly set up diffs, hard tires, stiff suspension, high torque, and a disciplined trigger finger. It's so funny how the hobby has come full circle. When RC drifting started, it was only AWD.

If you're opposed to fully locked diffs, stiffen the front suspension. Depending on how responsive the chassis is to the change, it should help force the rear tires to stay more connected to the ground.

What chassis are you running? I don't see it mentioned in the thread. Once you get the car sliding the way you want, you can see if a front one-way differential is available.... this opens up the ability to "e-brake" the car. It makes it so only the rear wheels lock up when you hit the brake and the front keeps spinning. This allows you to adjust drift angle, mid drift. I know they are available for Tamiyas and Yokomos but I'm not sure about other manufacturers.

 

[dustyroller]

Next to flying helicopters, drifitng is the next hardest thing I’ve controlled to be good at. Practice practice practice

 

[mechkbfan]

It's "diffing out". One of the rear wheels is lifting off the ground, the other is getting all the power from the drivetrain and causing the spin out.

The rear is locked, the front has 7k oil
It seems I should go back to front locked too then?

If the rear is losing traction on one wheel, does that mean should go softer springs on rear?

OK, I'll leave gyro out for now. Once get it dialled in a bit more I'll experiment with it

When you mean high torque, is that implying going 3s?

I'm not sure it has come full circle yet. Everything out there is RWD with realistic setups. Which is cool to watch to me but I have zero fun doing it

I've got two cars to experiment with

- TT02 with Yeah Racing upgrades, i.e. has camber, toe in, etc.
- LRP S10 TC3 stock. It has metal diffs, big bore shocks, anti-roll bar

The ones in video are TT02. I was happy to run smaller power in it with 2s 3000kv motor
But figured if need to start going 3s 4000kv type setup, then I'd start tuning the LRP cause of metal diffs, tougher plastic, etc.

Yes, I've ordered a 1 way Tamiya diff but it'll take 2 weeks to get here as there's none available locally

 

[mechkbfan]

Next to flying helicopters, drifitng is the next hardest thing I’ve controlled to be good at. Practice practice practice

Agreed. Theres no doubt a lot of it is me missing the skill to handle it, but my theory at the moment is if I can't accidentally get a good drift in within 30mins, then I should experiment with the setup again

 

[dustyroller]

3 - TT02’s and a Redcat Rds.
The tt02’s have a 17t brushed and can power slide comfortably on out street at will, at your projected 15-20mph on 2s. My Rds I can now easily slow drift (now) in my gym. I believe what you are asking is reasonable and your 30 min is a good time to take a break. How are you practicing your drift?

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[mechkbfan]

The tt02’s have a 17t brushed and can power slide comfortably on out street at will, at your projected 15-20mph on 2s. My Rds I can now easily slow drift (now) in my gym. I believe what you are asking is reasonable and your 30 min is a good time to take a break. How are you practicing your drift?

That's fantastic.

Can you give me more information on that TT02 setup regarding tyres, diff or anything else critical?

Don't suppose could upload a video on street so I can see what they're capable of?

Practicing drift at the moment is setting up two safety cones at various distances apart.
Sometimes just doing circles around one, and then a figure 8

 

[dustyroller]

Pretty standard again with the TT02’s, they have been upgraded all the same.
CVA Mini shocks, aluminium propeller, motor mount, ball bearings, other than that they are all stock. Biggest part is the 17t motor is to break the tires loose. I was able to do it with the super stock but I wanted a bit more speed on the top end, I live on a corner lot with an empty park behind us so I have room to go fast. I couldn’t tell you how many battery packs we have gone through. We (son, my self, occasionally my wife) drive something or multiple daily so there is lots of time to practice. I’ve never really taken or uploaded any videos or anything. I have been doing this for almost 40 years though.

 

[xjtorc]

The rear is locked, the front has 7k oil
It seems I should go back to front locked too then?

Yes, lock them both up.

If the rear is losing traction on one wheel, does that mean should go softer springs on rear?

When you say the rear is locked. How is it locked? With a spool or really thick fluid? Softer rear springs will cause the weight to shift over the rear tires and create more traction. I don't think you want that much of a bias, hence stiffer springs on the front to prevent such an agressive weight shift, may help. This theory kind of goes out the window if your rear is locked with a spool becasue it's not diffing out on the rear, could be the front pulling it around. This is so hard to provide solid advice on without being able to drive the car myself! lol

When you mean high torque, is that implying going 3s?

Lower kV, smaller spur gear. 3S might make it harder to rip a drift until you get the chassis comfortable on 2S.

 

[mechkbfan]

When you say the rear is locked. How is it locked?

Spool.

OK, can try stiff springs up front next + lock front with spool again.

Lower kV, smaller spur gear.

Running Hobbywing D1 3000kv / 13.5T

It's an AliExpress belt drive of 16T pinion 40T spur

Go back to gears? I've got lots of spares to tinker with