Element Enduro Ecto Black- I bought one!

[MVRCA]

I got the fox belly from artful dodgers, it turns the stealthx trans kind of sideways or “lays it down”. It’s a nice little addition to my HD. Worth the wait coming from Poland. I imagine the steering pieces are great as well and I am now wondering why I have not done this yet….

I just learned about that mod, and it looks to be a darn good on at that.

 

[Doom!]

I liked this upgrade on my Elements:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/295829711343?_skw=element+enduro+upgrades&itmmeta=01J8FJXFPNJ08EGA3PFD4FJXGX&hash=item44e0d329ef:g:vkEAAOSwNhNkulPb&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx+KZ9MfhVJKm1QVITUP88OqjT4IiSIyWrRw74XJ2dsBY7uVegClrdmuMk977s88oyrfMi1X5XMZzyKGuxnmv/fXVt1OFq/sNGaRscpz28IwkXZfufhX7ixlOrQoTvteIKipuDMWy0MtgMe0zi5rFSdKBpJ9IXYB0yMazL8olDwANJtj5KfMZhrheQGOjBprCT2yCFmhwcMNrlLVh0Jc0DMgnq/ik2Dj1XLeVgDd64+KIJ46sN7X54bKIMAZ5/4ahDznFEwY+3zGkDrfnTyKTvRj8AJXy/ZAX4t35muFd4sbBTh3PKDBdRdg==|tkp:Bk9SR7j79fLDZA

Ordered a set, thanks for the heads up on these. it was within my budget.

 

[332_RC]

Ordered a set, thanks for the heads up on these. it was within my budget.

Let us know about communication & shipping w/ them, from Poland.
I looked at the steering links. Really cool. A little different from stock, best I can tell from his pics.
Thanks guys!

 

[majin]

Let us know about communication & shipping w/ them, from Poland.
I looked at the steering links. Really cool. A little different from stock, best I can tell from his pics.
Thanks guys!

i was going to order some artful dodger stuff, then i saw that the product i was buying was 20 dollars with 80 s&h. was insane

 

[332_RC]

On my Ebay, that steering link/arms, is $14.90 + $10.00 shipping. I did look through the website, didn't pay attention to shipping.

 

[majin]

I must've been on the wrong site lol

Ordered a set, thanks for the heads up on these. it was within my budget.

me 3, i wish id known about these sooner

 

[332_RC]

I got the $10 link riser. 3d printed but listed as CFR. Carbon fiber reinforced. I installed it yesterday, did a run, & today too. The rear doesn't squat as much & seems to grab traction quicker & the front end stays down. The few obstacles I have, it gets over them easier, IMO.

I'll get a pic of it installed.

Installed

Mod cost so far= $16

 

[TeknoJ]

It was awhile back that I purchased the fox belly directly from the site, I believe there was a shipping charge but it wasn’t much. I’ll have to dig through some emails and let you guys know.

Looks like I paid $8 in shipping for a $47 part. I also received 3 stl files to print some parts.

 

[MVRCA]

Now if we can just install a remote sway bar disconnect feature on that truck, you'll be set. But a link riser with a sway bar installed is an interesting combination.

 

[WickedFog]

Now if we can just install a remote sway bar disconnect feature on that truck, you'll be set. But a link riser with a sway bar installed is an interesting combination.

I was wondering if I was seeing things in the pics. Is that a sway bar on there? On a crawler?

 

[MVRCA]

I was wondering if I was seeing things in the pics. Is that a sway bar on there? On a crawler?

The Element Gatekeeper and Ecto run rear sway bars, and they are paired with the trailing arm suspension. For going fast and having a scale aspect, they are pretty cool and work well. I run one on my Gatekeeper U4 Rock Racer, but in the world of crawling, they limit suspension travel and cause the truck to pitch on off-camber descents. This is why you see disconnectable sway bars on modern off road 1:1, like the new Ford Bronco. Handy on the street, no bueno on the rocks.

A rear sway bar would force one of two things to happen in this position:

1. The driver's rear tire would be trying to lift up into the air and away from the rock. The sway bar would be trying to keep the axle on the same plane as the chassis. This would be least likely to happen in that the weight of the crawler would just want to follow the opposing action and tip sideways. See option 2.

2. The chassis would be pitching over to the driver's side and the sway bar would be forcing up on the passenger's side, again trying to keep the chassis on the same plane as the axle.

Thus, you would have a reduction in traction on the rock or a rolling of the entire crawler, pitching the whole thing off the rock. On the crawler shown, there is no rear sway bar, thus the rear axle can take advantage of the full range of suspension travel and maintain some level of traction on the rock.

 

[332_RC]

I have about an hour, hour & half of crawler experience. My take on the link riser in this Ecto. Straight line crawling, it climbs better. Off camber, it flips over easier. I can see a benefit with & without it.

Add: Tires that are softer or flex better might help. I really like the stock tires. They grip really well, but seem a little stiff to me. Again, I'm new to this.

 

[MVRCA]

Continuing on, you can see as the Gatekeeper has progressed, the front axle and chassis are level and firmly planted to the rock, while the rear axle is tilted and maintaining rear traction. The driver's rear tire is must keep planted or the truck will slide off to the side, thus the articulation of the rear axle divorced from contact with the chassis, other than the top shock mounts and link positions is essential. Interestingly, link risers will slightly limit this due to the increased planar contact distance ( screw to centerline of axle ), but the links themselves can rotate and pivot on the balls and their contact point is forward on the chassis. It's a neat dance when it all works together.

Just remember, when you add a link riser, technically you need to adjust link length. A (sq) + B (sq ) = C (sq ). You added to B, so you need to adjust C to keep the same angle. If not, you will ever so slightly rotate the top of the axle forward, dropping the pinion angle down. Chances of this affecting you on the trail = 0. Is it real = 100. Do we take this far too seriously = 1000.

I have about an hour, hour & half of crawler experience. My take on the link riser in this Ecto. Straight line crawling, it climbs better. Off camber, it flips over easier. I can see a benefit with & without it.

Add: Tires that are softer or flex better might help. I really like the stock tires. They grip really well, but seem a little stiff to me. Again, I'm new to this.

Don't get me started on tires.

 

[332_RC]

I measured before & after. The pinion angle went up not down. I knew to measure 1st.

 

[MVRCA]

I measured before & after. The pinion angle went up not down. I knew to measure 1st.

Right, I was referring to the point of contact with the driveshaft, that point going down. Yes, the angle of the pinion towards the ring gear goes up. This results in a worse angle for the pinion plane and the transmission output plane, increasing strain on the driveshaft. Elevating B forces you to lengthen C.

But this is total noise and really has no affect on anything on this crawler; it's just an observation. Some link risers account for this and move the mounting point forward, helping those with fixed-length links.

The punchline of the sway bar hindering crawling performance is somewhere lost in the weeds on this, and I'm not really helping that cause with the pinion angle talk.

 

[CertifiedMike]

Continuing on, you can see as the Gatekeeper has progressed, the front axle and chassis are level and firmly planted to the rock, while the rear axle is tilted and maintaining rear traction. The driver's rear tire is must keep planted or the truck will slide off to the side, thus the articulation of the rear axle divorced from contact with the chassis, other than the top shock mounts and link positions is essential. Interestingly, link risers will slightly limit this due to the increased planar contact distance ( screw to centerline of axle ), but the links themselves can rotate and pivot on the balls and their contact point is forward on the chassis. It's a neat dance when it all works together.

View attachment 203587

Just remember, when you add a link riser, technically you need to adjust link length. A (sq) + B (sq ) = C (sq ). You added to B, so you need to adjust C to keep the same angle. If not, you will ever so slightly rotate the top of the axle forward, dropping the pinion angle down. Chances of this affecting you on the trail = 0. Is it real = 100. Do we take this far too seriously = 1000.


Don't get me started on tires.

Because you mention it, this build and your pics make me want to burn my Envoy and start welding!
I think we take them to 1000% real extremes because the realities of 1:1 building and running are exceptionally limiting.
R/C becomes freedom! Cool persective!
Your info is priceless here. Thank you for sharing!

 

[MVRCA]

Because you mention it, this build and your pics make me want to burn my Envoy and start welding!
I think we take them to 1000% real extremes because the realities of 1:1 building and running are exceptionally limiting.
R/C becomes freedom! Cool persective!
Your info is priceless here. Thank you for sharing!

Indeed. It's a team effort for sure. Affording the 1:1 crawlers is a no-go in my world, so RC it is. Besides, there's no way I'd 1:1 crawl the stuff we causally do in the RC's! The other half of MVRCA can weld, but I'd make a hot mess of everything. Most likely just end up tacking myself to the workbench.

The Ecto is a total sleeper build and surprisingly versatile and capable out on the trail. It's a great truck.

 

[332_RC]

Thank you for your input, Steven. The front of the pinion at the driveshaft went up. The link riser tilted the nose of the axle up towards the frame, not down. Putting the driveshaft at less of an angle at the pinion input. The pinion is pointing at the transfer case more than it was.

 

[MVRCA]

Ugh,

I just looked at my Element and forgot how high up the rear upper links mounted to the chassis. Are your upper rear links almost level now as they sit or have become more level? Then indeed, they are actually getting longer and doing as your said, kicking the pinion up. I've been messing with my Moon Buggy and Antero too much and forgot how much lower the rear links are mounted to the chassis on those when compared to the Element. Doh.

 

[332_RC]

Yes, more level. The uppers were at the same angle as the trailing arms. Now they are more separated, closer to level with the plane of the chassis. The rear pumpkin was straight up & down. Now it's titled backwards. This is sitting at ride height & the phone level with the table.