Clutch Mystery

[Italianbonez718]

i have (from what i was told) a old RC10gt. it was a gift from a friend many years ago and I'm just getting into it now. the other day i had it running and all of a sudden would not accelerate anymore. what i saw was the spur gear stopped and the bell housing not moving when i tried to make it accelerate and also a clacking noise on the initial push to accelerate. my first thought was the clutch was bad so i took it apart and attached the picture of what i found EXACTLY as i found it. there were no springs and its boggling my mind to how this thing is supposed to work because the top of the shoes and the inside edge of the bell housing are SMOOTH.

does it look like i need a new clutch? bell housing? has anyone ever heard of a clutch with no springs on a nitro car?

btw i know my spur gear is FRIED and will be getting a new one and aligning it properly.

thanks guys

i forgot to add that when i pull the starter the motor turns over and the flywheel moves and is not free of the shaft.

 

[hamz9561]

How do the clutch springs look? I would try sanding inside the bell and maybe replacing shoes and springs.

 

[hotrodrob]

Looks like someone has cut the shoes down by about 50%

 

[Italianbonez718]

when i opened it up there were no clutch springs....why would someone cut the shoes down? i thought they looked really small but wasn't sure if it was suposed to be like that.

 

[Certified Mike]

I have an old gt also. I haavent got it running yet so I will share with you what I have read. First, I know that there are not any springs in the stock clutch. It is working on centrifugal(pretty sure that's accurate) force. The stock shoes were known to have slipping issues, esp with high power engines. However, they weren't terrible either. It was common practice to put the shoes in 'backwards' to increase the bite as well as trimming them back to adjust where, when and how they bite. There is info out there avail regarding all of this, however I don't have a link for you. By the looks of it, you may be due to replace the shoes. I have also heard it recommended that you should take some emerg cloth to the bell to rough the surface up a bit. Also, if the bearings were lined recently, that oil will spread all over the surfaces in there which will cause all sorts of unwanted slipping.
In your situation, I would read up on the shoes and how to trim them to get the desired operation. I would be sure to rough up the bell a bit and clean everything up nice... Your pics show there is a lot of dirt in there, oil or not. Also keep in mind that you could cut the shoes just to test out the operation, even if you cut past the desired operation... Strictly to test. There are metal shoes available to replace the stock Teflon. I have heard good things but again, no personal experience. Then again, you could always step up the whole assembly with a nice 3 or 4 shoe set up. There are a number available out there. Wish I had more for you and please, post about what you do and how it works... I could use the experience too. Good luck!!!

Btw, I have read a LOT about the gt's. A lot of it was PAINFUL reading with the 'english' used amongst other things. Hopefully I saved you a good amount of that!

 

[Italianbonez718]

haha thank you for that. ill probably end up getting new shoes and roughing up the bell housing and taking it from there after i clean it up. i just cleaned everything over the winter but it gets so dirty so fast. i love this GT its fast and loud as hell but i want to keep it as original as possible as long as i can but I'm realizing more and more there are a few things they did diffrent on this car compared to what they do now.

 

[Certified Mike]

Lol! Anything I can do to help! I swear, some of the posts (posters) were just BRUTAL!
Yeah, I would go that way if for no other reason to get the issues diagnosed. From there, if you're not happy with performance or your motor just exceeds the stock capabilities, hopping up to some of the killer clutches out there wouldn't be a terrible thing either.
I want to try to keep mine stock AND era correct... So rpm arms, radio box etc will all be ok on my restification. I also want to try to keep it at least somewhat tame with the exhaust volume levels... I don't want to have to travel just so I can fire it up and bash around for a bit.
We are in a nice position to add the modern gear, like a 2.4 radio isn't even a consideration, it IS going in... There are a ton of aftermarket steering setups so I want to eliminate the stock (weak imo) servo saver set up for something more adjustable and maybe better geometry too... Its the little things. I am Def gonna do the t4 front mod to a hex wheel and the b4 mod to match it in the rear... Not that anyone will ever see it but I will get the convenience and reliability which I have read to be pretty necessary as well... My car has an os18crv in it so there is a LOT of torque to tame! Robinson there, again, it's not optional in this case but is era correct as is pretty much all the hop ups I mentioned so far. This car is gonna be a LOT of fun!!!

 

[Certified Mike]

Ohhhh... Thought this might be good to know too... I have read that a tmaxx clutchbell will also work here and increase the bearing size. Again, just read, not tested and proven by me. The person who posted this does seem to be pretty sharp however.

 

[Italianbonez718]

good to know! i did actually check the bearings and the bell spins nice and smooth. i actually got mine in a trade for fixing someones paintball gun a while ago (i just had to adjust the velocity haha) because he couldnt get it to work. now with a new carburetor, tires, starter (i burned the old ones out) and some fuel this thing wheelies when i accelerate from the power. it has a old hpi nitro star .15 in it and it looks like it was barely run if at all when i got my hands on it. it didnt even have a body! everything else is original to my knowledge and it works just fine, the idea for me is to just use it like it was supposed to be and replace with new/old stuff as they break. thats why i was kind of suprised when i saw those clutch shoes because they were a lot smaller than i thought they would be AND NO SPRINGS. honestly i dont know too much about the car or the sport, I'm just learning as things break or i have to clean them off but there is something about the noise and the look of this little loud mosquito running around that makes me smile ear to ear. it doesn't matter that their outdated, there CLASSICS!

 

[cbaker65]

Someone may have altered those to fit.Some shoes only have 1 big spring that goes around
all of them an hooks together at each end.
If you change a different style like 3 shoe set up ,you will also have to change the fly wheel
as well for a 3rd prong for 3 shoe ,or you might can find a original 2 shoe set up with spring
from MIP products....

Like this!

 

[Certified Mike]

For what it's worth, the clutch bell and flywheel look to be (I'm almost 100% sure) stock. The stock set up does not use a spring for sure. If you go to associated and look in manuals for discontinued cars, you can d/l manuals, blown up pics etc... I believe you will find the info for the clutch shoe cutting, functions of that etc... In those manuals. I am not sure that it says anything about turning the shoes around. I believe the purpose there is just to make them grab better so again, it's gonna be a matter of testing and personal preference. The 2 shoe is a setup for the pullstart. There is a 4 shoe avail from associated for a non pullstart. They are Def different flywheels. Aside from the 4 pins, they are raised (or the outer edge is cut down) I don't know why the 4 shoe doesn't work with the pull. I am also not sure how it would be effected by the output (crank shaft) modification that the gt needs on a LOT of engines. I don't know about you engines so I don't know if yours required the mod. Again, lots of read info and none used in practice.

Def would have to buy a whole assembly to put on a 3 or newer 4 shoe to include the flywheel. MIP is Def an option for a better 2 shoe. If you Can find an MIP 4 in 1 clutch, it's supposed to be a good option. At the time, they were cheap. No idea if they are avail and if so, what they would be price-wise vs some of the newer and likely stronger new units. You can always look for the aluminum shoes to drop on your factory set up too. There are plenty of options open to you.

It's funny how you mention the big smile... I have a Revo that I want to fix before I get into the gt but I have been spending all my time reading up and making a list of the stock and upgrades that I want on this lil buggy. I have a Jato and it SCREAMS. I guess I am thinking that I would like to see how close I can get to the 2 speed speeds that the Jato gets to with this 'old, outdated' gt. I really don't think there's a lot out there that is gonna be any better (other than the closer tollerances avail in manufaturing parts etc) that is avail now. I will Def share that ear to ear smile a LOT with the milestones passed during my rebuild. I'm really glad you posted this!

 

[Certified Mike]

I did a lil looking... I believe I got the pull start and jumpstart flywheel confused... The flat one, (yours) is the bump start style... So I think the 4 shoe with springs (they are little single spring per shoe style) SHOULD bolt right on to your car. Its all associated stuff so you should be in good shape.

 

[Certified Mike]

It's a part #7611 flywheel btw.

 

[Italianbonez718]

thanks, i just ordered replacement shoes and a new spur gear. i want to get it working right again first and then possibly try converting it to the 4 shoe setup, as much as i want to keep it the way it was i am curious how much of a diffrence it would make with 4 shoes instead of two.

 

[Certified Mike]

As I understand it, you'll have better ability to adjust and control when and how the clutch engages when you use a 4 shoe. A stronger, more reliable lock on the clutchbell.

 

[cbaker65]

thanks, i just ordered replacement shoes and a new spur gear. i want to get it working right again first and then possibly try converting it to the 4 shoe setup, as much as i want to keep it the way it was i am curious how much of a diffrence it would make with 4 shoes instead of two.

Those are an upgrade basicly ,people who would race ,an want that xtra bite off the line.
Theres nothing wrong with the stock set up !...

 

[Certified Mike]

That's good news. Mine is a pull start... I can't use a stock 4 shoe set up even if I wanted to. I can think of other things I'd rather spent money on than my clutch. The stock parts run cheap enough but some of those hp units are pricey!

 

[Certified Mike]

Just thought I'd throw in... I actually learned today that when the gt was first out, they were using a spring that looked like a paperclip bent into a 'u' shape and stuck in the outside of the shoes, on the bell side. I guess the design failed so ae stopped incuding them. Something about them hitting the bells and causing high freq interference with the radio and wearing the springs down to razor thin (and likely painful) lil things. Soooo... Live and learn a lil more every day!

 

[ninnon]

If the shoes are worn, the springs are gone and spares are difficult to find then I'd get yourself a new clutch.

 

[Certified Mike]

I believe all the stock parts are readily available still. I had no issue getting mine at the lhs about 6 months ago. If there is an issue, I can point you in their direction.