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Centrifugal clutch for larger nitro engine?

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Roog

RCTalk Addict
Messages
632
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1,202
Points
228
Location
Keynsham, UK
RC Driving Style
  1. Crawling
  2. Scale Builder
Dear nitro brethren

Do you know if there is a neat centrifugal clutch that will fit a larger nitro engine, I am looking to buy an OS MAX 120ax Ring for my next project and it would be helpful to be able to idle the engine without the load connected.

Checking the OS web site suggests that the engine shaft is threaded UNF 5/16-24 and at least 40mm long, longer if I remove the prop drive plate/hub thing!
 
Dear nitro brethren

Do you know if there is a neat centrifugal clutch that will fit a larger nitro engine, I am looking to buy an OS MAX 120ax Ring for my next project and it would be helpful to be able to idle the engine without the load connected.

Checking the OS web site suggests that the engine shaft is threaded UNF 5/16-24 and at least 40mm long, longer if I remove the prop drive plate/hub thing!
Sounds like a MONSTER!!!
Hopefully some air/surface lunatic has come before you and thought, yeah, it can fly in the air ok, but how fast can it make a stadium truck go??? 🤔🤯🤣

Have you read back thru johnnymdm's posts to see if one of the clutch set ups he used could be adapted to yours?

Your projects are always so fun to follow!!! 😁👍
 
I’ll check out Johnnymdm’s posts thanks. I selected the 120 because it’s lower reving which suits my application.

I need about 1kW peak
 
Sounds like a MONSTER!!!
Hopefully some air/surface lunatic has come before you and thought, yeah, it can fly in the air ok, but how fast can it make a stadium truck go??? 🤔🤯🤣

Have you read back thru johnnymdm's posts to see if one of the clutch set ups he used could be adapted to yours?

Your projects are always so fun to follow!!! 😁👍
I know this one guy from the UK. He's always making the damndest stuff on either a mill or a lathe. I bet that guy could whip you up a custom one that would get the job done 😉

I wish you'd hurry up and get all your parts sourced. I'm needing a machining fix. I take it you're still trying to come up with a generator for your train?
 
I know this one guy from the UK. He's always making the damndest stuff on either a mill or a lathe. I bet that guy could whip you up a custom one that would get the job done 😉

I wish you'd hurry up and get all your parts sourced. I'm needing a machining fix. I take it you're still trying to come up with a generator for your train?

Dear RC Talkers, I sincerely apologise, I promise you I am working at this!

The real reason its taking so long is that I am a coward, let me explain, I am the kind of person who needs to be able to see the end of the tunnel 'in 4k' before I even order materials, I wish it was different but its held me back in life/work and hobbies, I simply need a high level of certainly before I start.

However, I can offer some words of optimism,

I have a couple of UK loco's on the drawing board, a British Rail Class 93 and a class 101 or 108, they are like two ends of the spectrum, (chalk and cheese) hope this makes sense! The OS two stroke is fairly well fixed for the 3.5" gauge scale that I want to work at (A 5" gauge loco won't realistically fit in my car for transporting to the track) a gasoline spark engine, although cheaper and more plentiful is just too big!

The next problem is getting drive into the axles, the bogies have very limited room for motors, just 3" clearance between the wheel flanges. The class 93 design uses 63mm dia BLDC outrunner motors in each bogie belt driving the axles below, this requiring lots of motors and ESCs, the class 101/108 is driven by a single big PMDC motor located in the main body serving a belt driven layshaft below connecting to the bogies via telescopic carden shafts. The latter is similar to the real loco.

I am currently exploring the 'RC crawler parts bins' for axles and carden shafts, because the loco build is a big ask as it is. It would be a big help to be able to source reliable components to serve as the drive train leaving me to focus on the interesting bits, the IC generator and the loco body.

The two approaches are so different, the class 93 (any modern diesel electric loco) uses the OS120 engine, driving a BLDC motor as an alternator, a VESC to manage the charge current in to a small LiFePO4 'buffer' battery via regen. then separate BLDC motors each with their own ESCs to serve each axle motor. This is expensive and complicated but uses proven kit, just used in an unusual way!

The Class 101/108 is completely different and potentially more entertaining, OS120 drives a large PMDC motor (say 1000W) this acts as a generator, the generator electrical output directly feeds a similar single PMDC motor via multiple series current limiting resistors very much like trams or street cars work. Engine speed and simple resistor selection control the speed and torque delivered to the wheels. The later requires a fair bit more mechanical kit to get the power to the bogies and their axles, lay shafts, decent carden shafts and 90 deg gear boxes to get the drive to the wheels. The big advantage to this project compared to the cars is that high rpm is not a thing, the wheel axles only need to turn at 1000rpm Max. Torque is an issue but again this is limited by the traction at the rail which is fairly limited. The main problem is that the axles really need to be 15mm in dia. just in case someone sits on the loco!

There must be a way to break the dead lock, I know: "Just pick one and build the dang thing will you" :0)
 
Last edited:
Dear RC Talkers, I sincerely apologise, I promise you I am working at this!

The real reason its taking so long is that I am a coward, let me explain, I am the kind of person who needs to be able to see the end of the tunnel 'in 4k' before I even order materials, I wish it was different but its held me back in life/work and hobbies, I simply need a high level of certainly before I start.

However, I can offer some words of optimism,

I have a couple of UK loco's on the drawing board, a British Rail Class 93 and a class 101 or 108, they are like two ends of the spectrum, (chalk and cheese) hope this makes sense! The OS two stroke is fairly well fixed for the 3.5" gauge scale that I want to work at (A 5" gauge loco won't realistically fit in my car for transporting to the track) a gasoline spark engine, although cheaper and more plentiful is just too big!

The next problem is getting drive into the axles, the bogies have very limited room for motors, just 3" clearance between the wheel flanges. The class 93 design uses 63mm dia BLDC outrunner motors in each bogie belt driving the axles below, this requiring lots of motors and ESCs, the class 101/108 is driven by a single big PMDC motor located in the main body serving a belt driven layshaft below connecting to the bogies via telescopic carden shafts. The latter is similar to the real loco.

I am currently exploring the 'RC crawler parts bins' for axles and carden shafts, because the loco build is a big ask as it is. It would be a big help to be able to source reliable components to serve as the drive train leaving me to focus on the interesting bits, the IC generator and the loco body.

The two approaches are so different, the class 93 (any modern diesel electric loco) uses the OS120 engine, driving a BLDC motor as an alternator, a VESC to manage the charge current in to a small LiFePO4 'buffer' battery via regen. then separate BLDC motors each with their own ESCs to serve each axle motor. This is expensive and complicated but uses proven kit, just used in an unusual way!

The Class 101/108 is completely different and potentially more entertaining, OS120 drives a large PMDC motor (say 1000W) this acts as a generator, the generator electrical output directly feeds a similar single PMDC motor via multiple series current limiting resistors very much like trams or street cars work. Engine speed and simple resistor selection control the speed and torque delivered to the wheels. The later requires a fair bit more mechanical kit to get the power to the bogies and their axles, lay shafts, decent carden shafts and 90 deg gear boxes to get the drive to the wheels. The big advantage to this project compared to the cars is that high rpm is not a thing, the wheel axles only need to turn at 1000rpm Max. Torque is an issue but again this is limited by the traction at the rail which is fairly limited. The main problem is that the axles really need to be 15mm in dia. just in case someone sits on the loco!

There must be a way to break the dead lock, I know: "Just pick one and build the dang thing will you" :0)
Do a small scale mock up.
 
Dear RC Talkers, I sincerely apologise, I promise you I am working at this!

The real reason its taking so long is that I am a coward, let me explain, I am the kind of person who needs to be able to see the end of the tunnel 'in 4k' before I even order materials, I wish it was different but its held me back in life/work and hobbies, I simply need a high level of certainly before I start.

However, I can offer some words of optimism,

I have a couple of UK loco's on the drawing board, a British Rail Class 93 and a class 101 or 108, they are like two ends of the spectrum, (chalk and cheese) hope this makes sense! The OS two stroke is fairly well fixed for the 3.5" gauge scale that I want to work at (A 5" gauge loco won't realistically fit in my car for transporting to the track) a gasoline spark engine, although cheaper and more plentiful is just too big!

The next problem is getting drive into the axles, the bogies have very limited room for motors, just 3" clearance between the wheel flanges. The class 93 design uses 63mm dia BLDC outrunner motors in each bogie belt driving the axles below, this requiring lots of motors and ESCs, the class 101/108 is driven by a single big PMDC motor located in the main body serving a belt driven layshaft below connecting to the bogies via telescopic carden shafts. The latter is similar to the real loco.

I am currently exploring the 'RC crawler parts bins' for axles and carden shafts, because the loco build is a big ask as it is. It would be a big help to be able to source reliable components to serve as the drive train leaving me to focus on the interesting bits, the IC generator and the loco body.

The two approaches are so different, the class 93 (any modern diesel electric loco) uses the OS120 engine, driving a BLDC motor as an alternator, a VESC to manage the charge current in to a small LiFePO4 'buffer' battery via regen. then separate BLDC motors each with their own ESCs to serve each axle motor. This is expensive and complicated but uses proven kit, just used in an unusual way!

The Class 101/108 is completely different and potentially more entertaining, OS120 drives a large PMDC motor (say 1000W) this acts as a generator, the generator electrical output directly feeds a similar single PMDC motor via multiple series current limiting resistors very much like trams or street cars work. Engine speed and simple resistor selection control the speed and torque delivered to the wheels. The later requires a fair bit more mechanical kit to get the power to the bogies and their axles, lay shafts, decent carden shafts and 90 deg gear boxes to get the drive to the wheels. The big advantage to this project compared to the cars is that high rpm is not a thing, the wheel axles only need to turn at 1000rpm Max. Torque is an issue but again this is limited by the traction at the rail which is fairly limited. The main problem is that the axles really need to be 15mm in dia. just in case someone sits on the loco!

There must be a way to break the dead lock, I know: "Just pick one and build the dang thing will you" :0)
'Rome wasn't built in a day.'
Neither were its trains. 😉🤣

Curious what other train builders might be using for axles. The sizes suitable to support a person's weight and all this metal are much larger than anything I've done in RC and still smaller than 1:1.

My initial thought is to see if a mower could provide a 90° that is strong and reliable without overboard.
Snowblower auger drives would give you similar drive diameters to what you are looking for but the size might cause issues.
The low RPM and high torque from the mower/blower engines seems right for this project

Prob not helpful but thats all I have right now. 🤔🤷‍♀️😁
 
Thanks @CertifiedMike I need all the encouragement I can get.

I'm not sure where the requirement for the large axle diameter comes from, I down loaded plans for a 3.5" steam loco and have taken most of the common dimensions from that, things like wheel profile, axle design, most seem to attach the wheels by interference fit. The wheels are quite narrow think 3/8" wide which mean there isn't much 'meat' to hold the wheel in place, apparently a bit of 'glue', one of the stronger loctite bearing retainers is accepted!

So even if you don't let people sit on it, it seems to be the accepted thing to do, think chunky.

I am wondering if 'dead' angle grinders might provide a suitably robust right angle gear box, just grind off all the metal that isn't required. Alternatively Aliexpress might provide a suitable gear box. It would be good if I can find something from the main stream that already does what I need without having to make a whole bunch of them from scratch, that's hard work and probably won't work so well!

I have found some telescopic cardan shafts, 12mm in diameter with openings for 5mm drive shafts, i am hopeful that these will take the load.
 
Thanks @CertifiedMike I need all the encouragement I can get.

I'm not sure where the requirement for the large axle diameter comes from, I down loaded plans for a 3.5" steam loco and have taken most of the common dimensions from that, things like wheel profile, axle design, most seem to attach the wheels by interference fit. The wheels are quite narrow think 3/8" wide which mean there isn't much 'meat' to hold the wheel in place, apparently a bit of 'glue', one of the stronger loctite bearing retainers is accepted!

So even if you don't let people sit on it, it seems to be the accepted thing to do, think chunky.

I am wondering if 'dead' angle grinders might provide a suitably robust right angle gear box, just grind off all the metal that isn't required. Alternatively Aliexpress might provide a suitable gear box. It would be good if I can find something from the main stream that already does what I need without having to make a whole bunch of them from scratch, that's hard work and probably won't work so well!

I have found some telescopic cardan shafts, 12mm in diameter with openings for 5mm drive shafts, i am hopeful that these will take the load.
I agree. Pre-made should help a lot.

Yeah, I can only imagine... Oh look Mommy!!! A miniature train ride!!! 🤣

I would not have thought of an angle grinder. Good thinking! 😎
 
I agree. Pre-made should help a lot.

Yeah, I can only imagine... Oh look Mommy!!! A miniature train ride!!! 🤣

I would not have thought of an angle grinder. Good thinking! 😎

Believe it or not my missus thinks a garden railway would be cool!
I know, incredible.

Even I am not daft enough to start that project.
 
Believe it or not my missus thinks a garden railway would be cool!
I know, incredible.

Even I am not daft enough to start that project.
I think it could be an amazing project but surely a labor of MUCH love and time too.
Maybe start with this build and see how you feel after it sets in a bit. 👍

When I was a boy, my uncle built a train table. It was pretty elaborate with lots of funtioning cars and related stops. A car held barrels offloaded by a working dozer, a guy chucked something into a car too but if you sped the motor too high, the guy would clear the car etirely and chuck stuff across the room! 🤣 It was hysterical!

I have always had a love for trains though never a passion. ❤️👍😁
 
Do a small scale mock up.

I certainly need to check bits as I go, such as the bogie will be taking a 'free wheel run' of the track before I start the main chassis.

I also need to check out the services of a local CNC laser cutting shop, the many windows on the Class 101/108 are a x-acto job too far.

I am thinking thin aluminum skin on 1/8" plywood, I wonder if they can do that? That way it won't be quite so painful to build a non powered second carriage to make up a two car train.

Yes I know it looks weird, but back in the 60's these little commuter trains used to rumble past my grand mothers flat/apartment in London cited close to the track leaving Victoria station, I have a soft spot for them, plus no one else in the club has built one! I can't imagine why :0)

BR class 108  2025-10-07 181556.webp
 
I think it could be an amazing project but surely a labor of MUCH love and time too.
Maybe start with this build and see how you feel after it sets in a bit. 👍

When I was a boy, my uncle built a train table. It was pretty elaborate with lots of funtioning cars and related stops. A car held barrels offloaded by a working dozer, a guy chucked something into a car too but if you sped the motor too high, the guy would clear the car etirely and chuck stuff across the room! 🤣 It was hysterical!

I have always had a love for trains though never a passion. ❤️👍😁

Rail road layouts are a big thing and the local club have a selection of layouts of all sorts of scales, in addition to the outdoor 3.5, 5 and 7.5" gauge lines, like you not really something I would want to do, too much landscape modeling for my liking.
 
I certainly need to check bits as I go, such as the bogie will be taking a 'free wheel run' of the track before I start the main chassis.

I also need to check out the services of a local CNC laser cutting shop, the many windows on the Class 101/108 are a x-acto job too far.

I am thinking thin aluminum skin on 1/8" plywood, I wonder if they can do that? That way it won't be quite so painful to build a non powered second carriage to make up a two car train.

Yes I know it looks weird, but back in the 60's these little commuter trains used to rumble past my grand mothers flat/apartment in London cited close to the track leaving Victoria station, I have a soft spot for them, plus no one else in the club has built one! I can't imagine why :0)

View attachment 251116
A water jet might be your best bet there. But a laser would have no problem slicing those materials. They might prefer to do them separately though, so I would ask before you laminate the panels.

And all trains are cool. Yeah, it's ugly. But I get it. There was an ugly little beige switcher engine at a local grain company I fell in love with as a kid. My uncle worked there, and my dad would stop by to talk to him every now and then and I'd stand out there watching them move cars around in that stubby little switcher engine.
 
https://www.ondrivesus.com/miniature-gearboxes

No idea if these will work but maybe there are other manufacts out there making 'the' one?

Yes interesting idea @CertifiedMike, I need to check out worm drive gear boxes, they use them on small scale electric locomotive models, one possible issue is their relatively high gearing, which isn’t a problem in its self except that the cardan drive shafts feeding them will be twirling a bit fast and I’m worried about whipping, but definitely worth checking to see if they do them with small gear ratios.
 
A water jet might be your brst bet there. But a laser would have no problem slicing those materials. They might prefer to do them separately though, so I would ask before you laminate the panels.

And all trains are cool. Yeah, it's ugly. But I get it. There was an ugly little beige switcher engine at a local grain company I fell in love with as a kid. My uncle worked there, and my dad would stop by to talk to him every now and then and I'd stand out there watching them move cars around in that stubby little switcher engine.

Good point, I guess CNC should give perfect match between both materials being machined separately.

We have a little heritage line no more than a few miles from were I live, I used to take my kids to watch the little tank loco running up and down the short leg of track they have, I must pay them a visit.
 
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