Belt Drive 4wd (racer) Do they exist anymore?

[CertifiedMike]

I could always start a poll here, right? Or would the ban hammer come out.....

I think you gotta REALLY push buttons to raise "the hammer" here.
The mods are really good on this site!
(Prob best not to p*ss them off)

 

[sylentk]

You've completely neglected to account for RedBull vs Gatorade and then theres the whole "blondes vs brunettes" controversy.
This thread has gone WAY off topic!

Uhhhh...the whole truth?

Water. Brunettes AND Blondes. Belts.

I already have a shaft.

HA!

 

[gragner66]

I personally would go with shaft. But man this Schumacher Neon $340 belt drive looks awesome

 

[jimdavis577]

In the interests of objectivity and so people understand that I am only trying to state facts - top fuel dragsters super chargers are belt driven. No joke - these are 11000hp monsters.

on a side note your not wrong about this ...? However what most don't know about top fuel is ...? They will use 19 gals of nitro methane in 1 pass , the have 2 injectors per cylinder, and have usually 2/ 4 injectors pre blower to help lubricate it , and the compression is adjusted by the thickness or reusable head gaskets ..... but most shocking is they are designed to run 1 run wide open no "throttle" if you will ..... it's basically a fuel valve on a fuel line once opened it pours fuel directly to the injectors, hence why peddling is so dangerous...... I was Tony Schumacher tire / clutch guy for the last yr of the army car

 

[CertifiedMike]

on a side note your not wrong about this ...? However what most don't know about top fuel is ...? They will use 19 gals of nitro methane in 1 pass , the have 2 injectors per cylinder, and have usually 2/ 4 injectors pre blower to help lubricate it , and the compression is adjusted by the thickness or reusable head gaskets ..... but most shocking is they are designed to run 1 run wide open no "throttle" if you will ..... it's basically a fuel valve on a fuel line once opened it pours fuel directly to the injectors, hence why peddling is so dangerous...... I was Tony Schumacher tire / clutch guy for the last yr of the army car

No Antron???
I LOVE watching these things run!
When they blow by at 300 mph and they change the air pressure in the stands...
The power and speed is awesome.

Thats a cool gig you were working!

 

[jimdavis577]

No Antron???
I LOVE watching these things run!
When they blow by at 300 mph and they change the air pressure in the stands...
The power and speed is awesome.

Thats a cool gig you were working!

You should feel it when they leave the starting line .... my job on the line was to drive the starting cart up to the car on the line ... wait till it was started back the cart away ... then after the burn out ..... wipe the inside rear tire down by hand while it was backing to the line ..... once it takes off it takes your breathe away being 5-8 ft from the car

 

[CertifiedMike]

You should feel it when they leave the starting line .... my job on the line was to drive the starting cart up to the car on the line ... wait till it was started back the cart away ... then after the burn out ..... wipe the inside rear tire down by hand while it was backing to the line ..... once it takes off it takes your breathe away being 5-8 ft from the car

I have been on the line before. Years ago at New England Dragway... I was not that close for launches though.
The jet cars and wheelie "funny" cars were running that night.
I was pretty young. It was absolutely incredible watching the Jet Kenworth run that track!
Holy fumes!!!
I never cried so much at such a good time!!!

My g/f and some friends used to run at Barrona CA too.
Nothing remotely like your set up or cars but we got dirty and had fun too.

I'll be sure to remember who to call when its time to set up my nitro clutches!!!

I'm sure I saw you on tv at some point doing your wiping at least.

 

[Lumikko]

The bicycle tests are very interesting. In the graph, it shows the 250watt marker for chain and belt. This indicates why belts have not really caught on for human powered bicycles.

View attachment 208662
The blue line represents what people can realistically maintain.

Due to the limitations, gearing and frame related compromises - belt would seem much better suited to e-bikes, right?

I bought my first belt-drive bike in 2011 and I’m quite familiar with the industry and bicyclists.

A vocal minority of racers are all about performance and efficiency, but most regular folks are happy riding an upright city bike with internally geared hubs – which are less efficient than belt drives even at low speeds. People who have tried chainless bikes are happy about the lack of oil stains and constant maintenance, and barely notice a difference in efficiency. Belts have three drawbacks holding them back:

- The frame must be suitable for a belt, not only by means of splitting it to mount the belt, but also a level of stiffness is requires.

- Belts and derailleurs don’t mix.

- Price.

I'm obviously not making a direct comparison between human powered bicycles and 27t stock racing, but for reference a good reedy MVP properly prepared for national level racing would be putting out 'about' 150watts on punchy, extremely well matched cells, super peaked.

The wattage threshold for better efficiency would be a lot lower with the small belts on RC cars. But something else came to my mind.

There’s a specific thing that sets RC buggies apart from bicycles and street motorbikes: landing a jump on power. The shock to the drivetrain is so hard that the motor would never generate anything close to it when accelerating or braking on the ground. This may have led RC cars to use far stronger belts and higher preloads than they would otherwise need: and an overbuilt belt causes more losses.

If the belts didn’t have to withstand such enormous peaks of torque, they could be made lighter and more efficient. Coming back from fantasy land, it’s easy to see why a manufacturer would simply go with a shaft.

 

[CertifiedMike]

I bought my first belt-drive bike in 2011 and I’m quite familiar with the industry and bicyclists.

A vocal minority of racers are all about performance and efficiency, but most regular folks are happy riding an upright city bike with internally geared hubs – which are less efficient than belt drives even at low speeds. People who have tried chainless bikes are happy about the lack of oil stains and constant maintenance, and barely notice a difference in efficiency. Belts have three drawbacks holding them back:

- The frame must be suitable for a belt, not only by means of splitting it to mount the belt, but also a level of stiffness is requires.

- Belts and derailleurs don’t mix.

- Price.


The wattage threshold for better efficiency would be a lot lower with the small belts on RC cars. But something else came to my mind.

There’s a specific thing that sets RC buggies apart from bicycles and street motorbikes: landing a jump on power. The shock to the drivetrain is so hard that the motor would never generate anything close to it when accelerating or braking on the ground. This may have led RC cars to use far stronger belts and higher preloads than they would otherwise need: and an overbuilt belt causes more losses.

If the belts didn’t have to withstand such enormous peaks of torque, they could be made lighter and more efficient. Coming back from fantasy land, it’s easy to see why a manufacturer would simply go with a shaft.

Cost is a huge factor here!
Building a platform or 3 that have multiple interchanging parts IS a current trend with r/c manufacturers.
Its cost effective and makes things more efficient from assembling rtr's and filling boxed kits to inventory, stock levels of items...
Straying from "cost effective/maximizing profits" to build a truly @ss kicking r/c, "screw the bottom line" seems unlikely.
Not ALL manufacturers are like this as Losi JUST showed us.
Hopefully we will start seeing more platforms/chassis designed with more podium and less profit in mind.

The bicycle model you are using is a good comparison! Interesting info!

 

[Horatio]

I bought my first belt-drive bike in 2011 and I’m quite familiar with the industry and bicyclists.

A vocal minority of racers are all about performance and efficiency, but most regular folks are happy riding an upright city bike with internally geared hubs – which are less efficient than belt drives even at low speeds. People who have tried chainless bikes are happy about the lack of oil stains and constant maintenance, and barely notice a difference in efficiency. Belts have three drawbacks holding them back:

- The frame must be suitable for a belt, not only by means of splitting it to mount the belt, but also a level of stiffness is requires.

- Belts and derailleurs don’t mix.

- Price.


The wattage threshold for better efficiency would be a lot lower with the small belts on RC cars. But something else came to my mind.

There’s a specific thing that sets RC buggies apart from bicycles and street motorbikes: landing a jump on power. The shock to the drivetrain is so hard that the motor would never generate anything close to it when accelerating or braking on the ground. This may have led RC cars to use far stronger belts and higher preloads than they would otherwise need: and an overbuilt belt causes more losses.

If the belts didn’t have to withstand such enormous peaks of torque, they could be made lighter and more efficient. Coming back from fantasy land, it’s easy to see why a manufacturer would simply go with a shaft.

The point I'm making is that whilst belts may be an option on bikes - it's not because they save the rider energy - it's because the end users are casual city riders who cannot be bothered with maintaining a chain or getting oily trousers.

On RC cars, wrapping belts around smaller pulleys presents challenges. Challenges that are worth mitigating - especially in Touring cars, as it turns out.

 

[Chubaka]

I think you gotta REALLY push buttons to raise "the hammer" here.
The mods are really good on this site!
(Prob best not to p*ss them off)

I slipped 40 to a mod to edit buddy's post and he's longer gone.

 

[CertifiedMike]

Well now we know... $40 or push buttons to raise the hammer...

3 licks to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop!

 

[Lumikko]

The point I'm making is that whilst belts may be an option on bikes - it's not because they save the rider energy - it's because the end users are casual city riders who cannot be bothered with maintaining a chain or getting oily trousers.

On RC cars, wrapping belts around smaller pulleys presents challenges. Challenges that are worth mitigating - especially in Touring cars, as it turns out.

Agree 100 %. I never saw my belt drive bikes as an efficiency thing, nor have I seen them marketed as such. Mentioning the reduced difference in efficiency at higher loads in bike belt marketing seems to me like a reassurance that a belt won’t hold you back if you pedal really hard.

Touring drivers seem to appreciate the drive feel of a belt drive, there’s plenty enough power to make up for the losses, and they don’t jump so the drivetrain is not subjected to shock loads as part of the normal operation.