Apartment living... Looking for HVAC answers/understanding.

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olds97_lss

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This is in reference to heating/cooling our apartment... We are on the 2nd floor. Our uncovered windows face the east. By uncovered, I mean not blocked from the sun. We have 2 double windows on the east side that are about 80 inches wide per double and 50 inches tall.

Brick exterior, fully carpeted interior. Drywall, cinder blocks sperating apartments but not rooms within apartments.

Our apartment always seems to try and be around 75-80 degrees regardless of the outside temp. This was a relatively warm winter and we turned the heat on twice, it got down to 68 at night inside when it was 0 outside for a couple days.

If you've made it this far, you've noticed that our inside temps are always warm. Considerably warmer than the outside ambient. This wouldn't be a huge problem, but our AC unit needs re-charged every 40 days and the landlord won't do it during winter months. It leaks and they can't find the leak, but it's been our problem for 6 years... not theirs... It's just been a minor inconvenience to them for 6 years.

When it's nice and cool outside (like yesterday, 60F), it got up to 77 inside with a window open. I put a fan in one window on one end and a fan in another on the other end of the apartment to create a blow through. This cooled the place to a respectable 70 in about 4 hours. We live by train tracks... that get used... a lot. Very annoying with windows open, tolerable with them closed.

I'm trying to figure out what makes it warm in here. I went around the whole apartment with my trusty IR thermometer and checked the floor all over. Nothing reads warmer than 72 (which is what the thermastat says). I checked the walls to the adjacent apartment, same, 72. So, for some reason, our apartment appears to be warming from the inside... but we're not on fire, so I don't know what's causing it.

The only thing that recently occurred to me is that we always have the forced air fan on. Not the heat or ac, just the blower. I buy expensive 16x25 and 10x20 filters for the furnace/ac air exchanger intake because we smoke. I leave the fan on all the time to catch the smoke. I change the filters about every 20 days or so because I can't stand the smell of smoke (we really need to stop smoking...). Well, right below the air intake in the same closet as the air exchanger/furnace unit is our electric water heater. The pipes coming out of it aren't insulated. I IR'd those and they are at 105F right at the water heater and 95 or so a couple feet down the line. The top of the WH is 78. The closet itself is 76. The rooms outside, 72. Could that stupid water heater be causing our place to be this warm all the time? If so, what can I do?

Sorry for the long post... but it's really grates on me every year about this time because the outside temps fluctuate so much and we are forced to open windows, deal with rain, deal with nats, deal with the noise of the train due to it being 78 degrees in here.

Any help from someone smarter than I would be greatly appreciated. Well, any help that doesn't involve moving or setting the building on fire... I just want to keep my windows shut on occasion!
 
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The first thing I would try is wrapping the WH with an insulated wrap. See if that helps?
I could see the WH keeping the ambient temps in the apartment at a steady temp:2cents:
 
Well... I shut off the blower. The thermostat says 69 right now. I have shut/locked all windows/storm windows. Typically, within a few hours, it will crawl back up.

BTW, I have almost no room in the closet to mess with the heater itself. I could wrap the pipes and put something on top of the water heater, like a fuel bottle insulator (if they make such a thing). Maybe some of that tin-foil layered bubble wrap stuff?
 
Let's see...
You have forced Hot air heat?
Is the air heated from a hot water coil piped off a boiler for the complex?
Do you have access to the air handler? If so, feel the copper lines to the heating coil, and see if there warm with the heat turned off. I'm thinking that possibly there is a stuck flow valve on the boiler, which is allowing some hot water to flow through your coil. The fact that you leave the "Fan On", you will be pulling that hot air from the coil, even with your heat off. Check those things, and check back with us..
 
No. Electric forced heat. Everything is electric. No boiler involved. Each apartment is totally self contained for heat/cooling. Even the stove is electric.

Sorry, that came out kind of stupid. The "furnace" is a self contained electrically heated forced air unit.
 
olds97_lss said:
No. Electric forced heat. Everything is electric. No boiler involved. Each apartment is totally self contained for heat/cooling. Even the stove is electric.

Sorry, that came out kind of stupid. The "furnace" is a self contained electrically heated forced air unit.

OK, forget what I said... lol
What temp is the air coming from the registers?
Does your neighbor downstairs crank the heat? Remember, heat rises and a 1st floor ceiling is rarely insulated.. Other than that, I'm stumped..
Sounds like your apt is just well insulated, and holds all the heat..
Maybe check to see if the return plenum in the closet has any leaks, and may be pulling in the warm air from the water heater.. I just can't see an electric water heater generating any external heat...
 
ImBroken said:
What temp is the air coming from the registers?
It was 75 when I had just the blower on. The rooms were 72 and the closet was 75.
ImBroken said:
Does your neighbor downstairs crank the heat? Remember, heat rises and a 1st floor ceiling is rarely insulated..
I don't have any neighbors downstairs. I checked with the landlord and maintenance guy and they say the heat is turned way down in those apartments. (there are two single apartments below mine) I thought about that...
ImBroken said:
Sounds like your apt is just well insulated, and holds all the heat..
I agree... but where is the heat coming from? It's 44F degrees outside right now. Even with the blower off, the temp of the apartment has gone from 68 to 72 since my last post...
ImBroken said:
Maybe check to see if the return plenum in the closet has any leaks, and may be pulling in the warm air from the water heater..
I'm not sure what a plenum is. See the photo at the end.
ImBroken said:
I just can't see an electric water heater generating any external heat...
I agree...

2006-0312-WaterHeaterPlacement.jpg


Thanks for your help. I appreciate it.

I'm just stumped as to why we have this problem all the time. Like I said, when the AC is charged and working, it keeps the house cool... of course, we pay for it, but if I could figure out why we get so warm for no reason, we may start paying less. Also, we will be less annoyed when they are late filling the AC if we can keep the temps under control without it.
 
I'm no homebuilder by any stretch, but it almost sounds like the building itself, or at least your apartment, isn't ventilating. I know when we bought our current house, the home inspector noticed that the builders at put roof paper over the vent openings, so the house wasn't "breathing" properly. Obviously, I put it on my "things I'll get around to doing when I run completely out of beer" list and, after five years, I ran out of beer!

Anyway, last Spring I took a razor and cut the vents open and it has made a difference! The house does tend to cool off better in the Spring after the sun goes down. I also added some of that window tinting to the windows that face due West and that has helped a lot.

Not sure if any of this jibberish helps or not!
 
how many computers running in your place and how long are they running each day?
 
2006-0312-WaterHeaterPlacement.jpg


OK, looking at that pic, there is no return plenum. A plenum is a collection box, or ductwork attached to your airhandler. Your return is pulling air from that closet. I'm sure theres a vent cut in the door, but for the unit to work correctly, the vent needs to be the same size as your filter, which I'm sure it's not.
I would recommend a larger grill in the door or adjacent wall (even better), and installing a short plenum on the unit, & the back of the new grill, with some flexible ductwork attaching the two. That way you are only pulling air from the main house, and not from a stuffy warm closet.. If you can put the grill up high in the door, it would be even better for your A/C, since heat rises.. Sounds like alot of work, but it would definately make a difference in the temperature of the air your moving around...
 
I'd say insulate the HW supply line as well...you are definately picking up BTUs off that thing sitting in your return plenum...may not be much but it's definately something....after 6 years I'd say it's time for your landlord to pony up and fix the leak...that is costing you some serious coin if your running the unit w/ low refrigerant......Is the door covering that thing slatted or louvered?? like ImB said you need the opening at least the size of the filter.....do you have carpet or wood/tile floor?? the heat coming from an uncovered window that size facing east is a HUGE heat load....tape a peice of paper on it and let it sit there til late morning, temp the paper and see what it reads....I know mine can get up to 110 easily...feels like walking by a furnace, and it's tinted......the computer question is also a factor...very rare a home pC setup would generate that much but I know you do work w/ PCs alot...what's your setup there look like.....what type of TV do you have....projection LCDs can generate a good amount of heat...if you leave them on (Like I leave my TV on) it might also be a factor.....then there are the inside activities....(think whatever you want) if you are excersising in the house you're boduy is generating more heat.....these are all minor heat loads for a typical house that combined may be driving your temps up...especially if the apt is well insulated and you can't cool it down......BTW why does your landlord keep charging a unit w/ a leak.....he's pissing money down the drain...not just his but yours too.....
I got lucky w/ my new landlord...I told him my electric bill was a lil high and he swapped out the refrigerator & HW heater the next week.....dropped my bill 80 bucks....
 
Actually, the door is a bi fold door that's solid (hollow, but no louvers). There is a 16"x25" grate with another 3M filter in it on that left wall that you can't see. It's to the left of the water heater.

I don't know... everything sucks... and I don't own it, so I don't/can't do a lot to it. I thought about the duct work going from the 16x25 on the wall to the 10x20 intake, but I don't know if such adapters or anything exist that would fit in the space that I have.

BTW, we have had gale force winds all day, the outside temp is 30 (has been less than 40 for the past 4 hours) and the apartment is 74...

We have venetian blinds on all the windows that are white and reflective (I couldn't tolerate the curtains that were here). The windows are double pane and there are glass storm windows as well. All rooms are carpeted. Except for a 6x8 section in the kitchen and the small bathroom.

I have a single PC, but we shut it off when not using it. I have a 60 inch rear projection big screen, but it has light guns, not LCD. It's older. When the amp/receiver isn't in use, it doesn't kick out much heat. Runs at about 70F. Our Motorola cable box, on the other hand, runs about 110 all the time. On or off. It has to have the worst wired power supply in it on earth.

Our land lord has replaced our fridge and stove since we moved in this place 6 years ago. I lived in another of the same landlord's apt's for 3 years before I got married.

As for why they keep dumping freon in it, I don't know. I've asked them almost since we moved in to fix it... they just fill it. I hate complaining... it just isn't in me to do so. I think the actual owner has been "lied" too or is lieing to me. When I called, she said that her son (the handyman that "fixes" stuff) replaced our unit last spring. I told her if he did, he replaced it with the same rusted one that's been there for 6 years or at least it bears an uncanny resemblance to it. She swears it was replaced. I was animate that it wasn't. She said she would send someone to check it today. I told her to make sure they bring freon and left it at that.
 
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OK Olds, Maybe I'm pissing in the wind here...
I'm going with the hot water heater making your place warm....

The intake is in the closet? You are running the blower on the furnace?
Would there be a simple way to insulate the ductwork? Run some kind of a temporary duct through the closet door?
See if it stays cooler then?
 
you can just get the soft foam insulation for the pipes at home depot...it just wraps around it and you tape it on...not as good as the fart rock but a lot easier to install and a lot cleaner.....
 
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