What do you think of Shakespeare?

[jetmechG550]

Everyone says, it's one of those things you have to do. Why is this? Why do school systems seem to think that this is important? What purpose does it server other than piss off 99% of the school population? Then add the parents on top of that whose kids come to them for help. Message poop...if you have something to say come out and say, nobody can fault you for being up front and honest? Have something to say, why hide it some sort of sing songy bull rhymey crap? Have enough cajones to say it or I'm smashing your face in.

 

[AC48]

Jet, I never could figure that out. I just dealt with it, now that I am past that, forget about it.

 

[Karl M]

Damn Jet, how about some anger management. lol I know what you mean and agree, cut the BS and get straight to your point cause I don't have time for this. You would think that this is an attitude that would be appreciated in the military, but our "LEADERS" perfer the BS. Too many chiefs, not enough indians. If you look ito most school districts you will find way to many administrators, at least here you will, change is hard to come by in that environment.

 

[jetmechG550]

Sorry, like I said it still pisses me off to no end. This 10 years after I graduated from college. IMO, the whole educational system in the US needs to be revamped. I graduated high school in 1991, our history books didn't even make it to Viet Nam. We barely covered the Korean War. When I was in was going through the maintenance program to get my A&P, they were still teaching dope and fabric. Let me tell ya, the only airplanes I've ever been around that were fabric covered were in museums. We barely, barely touched on EFIS (glass cockpit) yet that is all I do now. My number most used tool is my laptop and that goes from working on the airplane to paperwork, to budget stuff to just about everything I do at work. More emphasis needs to be placed on education with computers and using them that how to try and figure out what some pansy ass was trying to get across in a poem 500 years ago.

 

[Monkey Wrench]

Sorry, like I said it still pisses me off to no end. This 10 years after I graduated from college. IMO, the whole educational system in the US needs to be revamped. I graduated high school in 1991, our history books didn't even make it to Viet Nam. We barely covered the Korean War. When I was in was going through the maintenance program to get my A&P, they were still teaching dope and fabric. Let me tell ya, the only airplanes I've ever been around that were fabric covered were in museums. We barely, barely touched on EFIS (glass cockpit) yet that is all I do now. My number most used tool is my laptop and that goes from working on the airplane to paperwork, to budget stuff to just about everything I do at work. More emphasis needs to be placed on education with computers and using them that how to try and figure out what some pansy ass was trying to get across in a poem 500 years ago.

Ah, you know what the problem is, you crusty bastard? You cried like a little school girl when Romeo and Juliet killed themselves and that hot teenage girl with the Wham! t-shirt sitting next to you laughed at you and have been pissed about it ever since! Quit hiding behind your education reform rhetoric and just admit it, you pansey!

 

[hamz9561]

My number most used tool is my laptop and that goes from working on the airplane to paperwork, to budget stuff to just about everything I do at work. More emphasis needs to be placed on education with computers and using them that how to try and figure out what some pansy ass was trying to get across in a poem 500 years ago.

I second that idea. I am teaching the final Computer Networking Class at my school. The state has decided that since the employers here refuse to hire anyone without a degree. My students don't get a degree, as this is a technical school, but they do get industry recognized certifications and LOTS of hands experience. The Community college here offers an associates degree program similar in scope to the one I'm teaching without much hands on or lab time at all. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Sorry about the rant guys, just my .

 

[TalonOne]

Wow this thread took a turn.....Jet you need to seek help on your SP itus..

ALL of history is worth studying.....so we learn from it. Like I said before education is a privilege and even if you do not understand or agree with the curriculum being taught, it behooves you to pay attention and open your mind.

The "I hated it and it does not apply to my life" thinking is narrow and I believe is a natural defense mechanism for those who dont "get it".

I go thru this with my kids all the time.....what does algebra have to do with anything......blah blah blah. Right now it has to do with learning it.....later it will help in ways you do not understand is always my answer.

But really you are a some total of ALL the experiences you have had in life....including the ones you hated or did not understand.....so weather you like it or not Shakespeare has had an impact on your life...and will until the day you die.


My two cents.....

 

[AC48]

IMO, as our society moves more and more towards science and technology, history becomes less and less as important. Yes, every American should know history, things like the revolution, civil war, world war 1 and 2 etc...so that history does not repeat itself, but, there is no reason for learning anything about Shakespeare, because that is not useful for anything for the average person. I will be getting my BS Degree in Mechanical Engineering in 4 years (if all goes as planned) and I will not take one english related class in all of those years. I will never hear his name, and will I be able to contribute to society? Yes.

My point is, there should be classes with Shakespeare available in high school, but for those that are not interested in it and will never need it in their lives, they should not be required to learn it, or should I say attempt and fail to learn it.

 

[Monkey Wrench]

You've got a point, AC, but I submit to you this. What good is having all that ability and knowledge if you cannot clearly communicate it to someone else?

Taking Willy out of the equation, what good would it do for you to design and engineer a new, state-of-the-art conveyor system for a manufacturer but, because you never took the time to study English, you could not relay it's advantages to your manager or a potential client?

I agree that the study of Shakespeare, taken directly, may be best left as an elective rather than a requirement, but I do not discount the absolute need (especially now) for an education in the English language.

Trust me, in today's economy, even if you are primarily technical in nature (engineer, designer, etc.) you will need to have a solid business acumen to enjoy continued professional success which entails the ability to convey thoughts, ideas and the like clearly and concisely. The days of corporate segregation and specialization are going the way of pension plans.

My suggestion, pick up a business writing elective, take it pass/fail or some other similar course while you can. It'll pay off in spades down the road!

 

[rocknbil]

Shakespeare writes about the common man and his problems. His plays were the movies of his time.

THE VOICE OF REASON!

More than that - his plays were about how it SUCKS to be human and how we DEAL with it, JUST LIKE TODAY!

You guys who oppose Shakespeare are doing so because it's being forced on you. What you don't get is . . . .

Shakespeare was a rebel and a smartass who came as close to being beheaded as possible and still get paid. If he were alive today he would be someone like Andrew Dice Clay or Colin Ferrell. His works kicked ass.

The Globe theatre had royalty in the boxes and commoners on the floor. If a play sucked, the commoners would mob the actors, drag them into the streets, and throw them into the Thames Rver, which was the main sewage at the time. You rarely survived a swim in the Thames.

If an actor did a lousy job of swordfighting, anyone in the crowd could jump on stage and challenge them, on the spot. To the death! The crowd LOVED it!

People died over this poop - Shakespearean plays where the equivalent of modern day WW matches and mosh pits, without the rules. Try writing a script that keeps people like this captive - standing (no seats on the Globe floor) - for several hours.

If you read, he had a sense of humor as bawdry as anything today - The frenchman in Two Gentlemen of Verona" -

"You shall be da' furst, he da' second, and I shall be da' Turd."

Even Shakespeare made fun of the French.

BUT HERE'S THE BIG DEAL - the reason most of you HATE Shakespeare - you are forced to read and have never actually seen a professional performance of one of his plays. This changes EVERYTHING. Not a TV version, go to an actual play.

I swear to whatever God you pray to, see ONE of his major plays - choose something REALLY good like Macbeth, a story of lust for power, concience and murder, The Merchant of Venice, a story of prejudice against Jews which still rages today, or Hamlet,, incest, lies within lies, and well - murder also - and your opinion will change forever.

Of course Romeo and Juliet was nothing about "young romance," it was about how people stubbornly cling to their beliefs in spite of what is staring them in the face, even if it means losing their only children. But Hollywood ruined all that!

And F*** Midsummer Night's Dream. He did that play for morons that couldn't understand anything else and needed the lowest form of humor, personally I think he wrote it while he was drunk.

Shakespeare kicks ass. If he were alive today, he'd write a play about the millon monkeys on the Internet writing one of his works . . . and they would rise to slaughter you all!

 

[AC48]

You've got a point, AC, but I submit to you this. What good is having all that ability and knowledge if you cannot clearly communicate it to someone else?

Taking Willy out of the equation, what good would it do for you to design and engineer a new, state-of-the-art conveyor system for a manufacturer but, because you never took the time to study English, you could not relay it's advantages to your manager or a potential client?

I agree that the study of Shakespeare, taken directly, may be best left as an elective rather than a requirement, but I do not discount the absolute need (especially now) for an education in the English language. Trust me, in today's economy, even if you are primarily technical in nature (engineer, designer, etc.) you will need to have a solid business acumen to enjoy continued professional success which entails the ability to convey thoughts, ideas and the like clearly and concisely. The days of corporate segregation and specialization are going the way of pension plans.

My suggestion, pick up a business writing elective, take it pass/fail or some other similar course while you can. It'll pay off in spades down the road!

High School English classes can teach you enough to get you by just fine. Besides, most jobs as en engineer don't involve the engineer actually selling or conveying things to customers, usually to other engineers, who understand each other. Yes, I am aware there are exceptions to that. My Dad's college roommate is Mechanical Engineer, and now is a helicopter Salesmen. I'm not saying there should be no English class, just the study of Shakespeare himself should not be required. My point is that learning to understand and talk like Shakespeare is not going to get you anywhere because no one else really else understands him either. Its 2007, we need to be able to talk and write like we are in 2007. If I tried to explain something I designed using his language, I would get no where. (Not that I could, but you know what I mean)

I do agree English class should be required, but not Shakespeare.

 

[Monkey Wrench]

If I tried to explain something I designed using his language, I would get no where.

Very, very true, but, I can't understand half the poop this generation of young folks write either, with that I'm shorthand sweeping the nation (not implicating you at all, AC, you're the exception.)

It's a circular argument and I do not necessarily think there is a right or wrong answer. For every reason I think Shakespeare should be studied, there is as valid a reason why it should not (Jetmech's reasoning notwithstanding).

I still submit that those of you that detest Shakespeare for any reason, try to catch a professional performance of one of his plays. I submit, the language (or rather, the wording) can be difficult, but they are good (and I, as a general rule of thumb, detest going to the theater.)

It's good the exercise the mind with something other than what is needed to survive or make money. It's a bonus if you get to combine the two, but rarely are we afforded that luxury.

A little knowledge outside of A+B=C is good for ya!

 

[jetmechG550]

The only thing I understand and care to about Will is that if he was alive and standing next to me he would be in a Thai clinch so fast stopping a series of knees to his face until his facial structure caved and nobody would ever have to read his useless drivel again. You're right, it was forced on me and everyone else that has been through school. Did I get it? Yeah, it was so frickin dumb I didn't like it. I won't see a play, cause I don't like plays. I like the idea of the possible fights and death after his plays, but cut the poop and go right to the action. Before I fight someone (not street fighting) I don't have to act out a play nor would anyone come and see that. I'm telling ya, Shakespear is useless, absolutely useless in today's society. Nobody cares about him or his crappy plays or poems or writings. Sorry, my spelling gets hosed when I'm irritated since my mind functions a whole lot faster than I can type. I'll stick to toy cars, fighting and making sure 90,000 lbs of metal gets from point A to point B in the safest, most efficient manner I can. Oh yeah and the fine wines I like to drink. All of those luxuries I have and enjoy and not a stinkin' one of them is a result from having to choke down some bullshit literature.

 

[Monkey Wrench]

The only thing I understand and care to about Will is that if he was alive and standing next to me he would be in a Thai clinch so fast stopping a series of knees to his face until his facial structure caved and nobody would ever have to read his useless drivel again. You're right, it was forced on me and everyone else that has been through school. Did I get it? Yeah, it was so frickin dumb I didn't like it. I won't see a play, cause I don't like plays. I like the idea of the possible fights and death after his plays, but cut the poop and go right to the action. Before I fight someone (not street fighting) I don't have to act out a play nor would anyone come and see that. I'm telling ya, Shakespear is useless, absolutely useless in today's society. Nobody cares about him or his crappy plays or poems or writings. Sorry, my spelling gets hosed when I'm irritated since my mind functions a whole lot faster than I can type. I'll stick to toy cars, fighting and making sure 90,000 lbs of metal gets from point A to point B in the safest, most efficient manner I can. Oh yeah and the fine wines I like to drink. All of those luxuries I have and enjoy and not a stinkin' one of them is a result from having to choke down some bullshit literature.

I will be sure to quote Shakespeare at the races on the 3rd and 4th! MUUHAHAHAHA!

 

[AC48]

Monkey, I agree on the aim language, its a good idea for I'm, because its fast easy and everyone who uses aim knows it, but outside of that it should not be used.

I have no opinion on his plays, I'm sure they are great plays compared to others. I don't like plays. But, because a lot or people think they are great plays everyone has to learn about them?

A little outside of A+B=C you say? Well I guess the keyword there is 'little'

 

[TalonOne]

The only thing I understand and care to about Will is that if he was alive and standing next to me he would be in a Thai clinch so fast stopping a series of knees to his face until his facial structure caved and nobody would ever have to read his useless drivel again. You're right, it was forced on me and everyone else that has been through school. Did I get it? Yeah, it was so frickin dumb I didn't like it. I won't see a play, cause I don't like plays. I like the idea of the possible fights and death after his plays, but cut the poop and go right to the action. Before I fight someone (not street fighting) I don't have to act out a play nor would anyone come and see that. I'm telling ya, Shakespeare is useless, absolutely useless in today's society. Nobody cares about him or his crappy plays or poems or writings. Sorry, my spelling gets hosed when I'm irritated since my mind functions a whole lot faster than I can type. I'll stick to toy cars, fighting and making sure 90,000 lbs of metal gets from point A to point B in the safest, most efficient manner I can. Oh yeah and the fine wines I like to drink. All of those luxuries I have and enjoy and not a stinkin' one of them is a result from having to choke down some bullshit literature.

I get it!!! you don't like him.....but to say what he, or any other literary icon passed on to us is useless, is simply naive.The fact that you are every eloquent in your opposition, belays the fact that you learned something from him.....if only that you do not prefer that style of literature. But beyond that I offer that you headed in the direction you are in now based partly on that experience..........because you learned that you are very analytical and mechanical and experiential in your learning and working style....

Sorry I just can't let it die.....I am done now...it just interest me that Will bothers you so much....as he one of my favorites.

 

[jetmechG550]

I hate reading, I hate books, I hate literature. As I said, it has done absolutely nothing for me nor will it gain me anything in my career. I don't see why kids today or even 50 years ago had to be subjected to this stuff. I'm not knocking anyone or liking him or choosing to read any literature, that's your choice. How about making someone learn how to build a computer from scratch or how a freakin' internal combustion engine works. An internal combustion engine contributes more to society today than any fictional story with a "hidden" message. Outside of entertainment for some and anger for others (me!) what is useful about learning about Shakespear and the like? As I said, there's not been one single point in time in my life, where I can say "wow, I know that cause I read macBeth" or "reading the taming of the shrew helped me get a piece of ass!" LOL, now you all know what strikes a nerve in the jetman! What do you think I get psyched up to before a fight?

Hey Monkey, remember the story about the marshal and smashing my truck? I don't want to do any re-enacting! LOL

 

[Monkey Wrench]

Hey Monkey, remember the story about the marshal and smashing my truck? I don't want to do any re-enacting! LOL

Hey, I've seen The Karate Kid, man. I know how to do the stork move!

Wax on! Wax off!

 

[ImBroken]

Shakespeare was a rebel and a smartass who came as close to being beheaded as possible and still get paid.

I thought you were talking about Fast Eddy for a minute...

 

[TalonOne]

Okay already, we have beat this horse to death...... twice..........lets talk about say the life and times of Hugh Hefner for gods sake!!!!! Something with bare breasts and round asses and sweet little camel toes...... for a change.