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Savage 4.6 SS Build with Pics!

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DarkEnergy said:
The piston rod itself has volume. When the piston completely extended, most of the rod is outside the shock chamber. When you push the pison in, part of the piston rod goes into the chamber, therefore displacing some of the oil. If the oil does not have anywhere to go, (ie no air inside to compress) you won't be able to push it all the way in. Its not that the piston head is pushing oil against the top of the shock, its that the piston rod is being pushed into the chamber.
Click to expand...

All you have to do is to fill the shock all the way with oil and move the piston up and down to clear the air out of it. I personally then put the piston at the bottom and top the shock off with oil right to the top. There is a little extra room in the shock cap. If you fill it this way the shock will still compress enough for the truck's TVPs to hit the floor. In my experience the shock’s shaft does not displace much shock oil. You will probably experiment with springs, oil weight, shock preload, and shock length after you start driving the truck.

DarkEnergy said:
Also, the image I posted is in fact the rear.
Click to expand...

Ok, my error. The angle threw me off. My rears look like this:

http://www.hpiracing.com/graphics/instr/savage_ss/S25ss_P34.jpg

FWIW, I used washers on both the front and rear. In the past I have had tie rods pop off both ends of the truck.

Enjoy your ride.

One tip, you should replace the brass bushing on the front of the clutch bell with a clutch bearing.

clutchbell0qg.jpg
 
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A good steering servo is the Hitec HS-5955. It's a tad expensive, but you won't be replacing it antime soon. As for the rest of the radio, check out the Airtronics MX-3S that comes with two 94102Z servos (one for throttle/brake and the other for reverse, if you ever buy it)

Rossb is right about the brass clutch bushing, it wears out pretty quick. Instead of a using a clutch bearing, stack up some clutch shims until there is a small amount of play. The part numbers for the HPI shims are Z694 (thick) and Z688 (thin). While you're at it, also pick up Losi's clutch tool. It makes installing and removing the shoes much less painfull. The part number is LOSA99168.

Lastly, the 5,000 you've heard about refers to the silicone oil some of us fill the differentials with. A heavier oil will slow down the differential action while a lighter oil frees it up. This has a major affect on how the truck handles. 5,000 weight is a good starting point, but you may find another weight works better for your driving style. My truck currently has 10,000 up front and 5,000 in the rear.

Nice build, keep the pics coming.
 
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Is it me or is his clutch on backwards?

Edit - O nevermind I see you have figured that out already...don't worry...I did mine backwards the first kit I built too. Truck is looking great tho!
 
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rossb said:
One tip, you should replace the brass bushing on the front of the clutch bell with a clutch bearing.
Click to expand...
Bearing is on the inside of the clutchbell. Brass bushing is a spacer.
 
I've made some correction to the drive shaft, this is the best I could come up with.

First off, I turned around the nut that holds on the flywheel. It makes a little more sense this way because the cone shape holds the flywheel center. I was able to get it very tight using some vice grips. I only used a single brass cone thingy on the engine side.

I also reversed the clutch shoes back to the less aggresive direction.

Now to fix the rubbing.

The layout in the manual doesn't work out of the box. The final screw tightens against the brass spacer, which causes rubbing inside.

Look here at how the bearing is expected to be flush against a washer of the same diameter, but not move with it:

correctedclutch8ky.jpg


If you compress the bearing against the washer, and the washer does not move with the outside of the bearing, then you have the outside edge of the bearing rubbing against the washer. This is what was causing the rubbing. The inside ring of the bearing moves with the washer, but the outside ring does not - it moves with the clutch bell.

The final screw on the brass spacer has the exact same problem. And yes, there is another bearing that you can't see thats inset behind the spacer.

It goes:

screw->spacer->bearing->clutch bell

The spacer rubs against the bearing once the screw squeezes them together.

So this is our solution. Leave the spacer out, put just enough shim on both sides of the bell to remove most of the play, and screw the screw tight against the drive shaft. This leaves a small amount of play in the clutch bell against the rest of the shaft, but it doesn't rub, and the screw gets to be very tight. The clutchbell spins freely.

correctedbell3qg.jpg


I have a feeling I'm going to be revisiting this part of the vehicle a lot =). Thank you very much to everyone who helped me out here. I can't imagine trying to do this blind.

Looking into electronics now. Going to hit up the shop tommorow and ask the guys there too. I'm in San Jose, CA btw, anyone around?

Edit: I just noticed a thread on page two about the clutchbell spinning freely. I think I'm on the right track =).
 
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digger said:
Bearing is on the inside of the clutchbell. Brass bushing is a spacer.
Click to expand...

I know the brass bushing is a spacer. That spacer should be replaced with a clutch bearing. The brass bushings wear out very quickly, the screw will cut a big notch into it and the bushing will flop around. This is a common problem.

I run the washer bearing setup shown here along with another clutch bearing on the front instead of the brass bushing 86121. I have been using this setup for about 6 gallons and it spins very freely with a tiny amount of freeplay in the clutch bell and I have no more wear issues on the front spacer. I do use loctite on the clutch screw. If I need to get the screw out I heat it up with a small handheld butane torch.
 
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Dont want to derail the thread.
I have a set of them and use them often, its a good tool.
What I like about the shaft tool is that there is a diamond shape notch in the jaws to securely hold the shaft. With the covers on the Duratarx unit the shaft will slip if the end is on tight. I find the RE tool extremely useful in kit building when installing turnbuckle ends. The square part of the turnbuckle fits great into the notch on the pliers and stays put while concentrating on installing the ball ends. It can also substitute for a turnbuckle adjustment wrench adding a multipurpose tool to my pit box. On the other hand, its not cheap.

Back to our scheduled programing......
 
hey rossb so instead of

screw -> spacer (I'm using washers here) -> bearing -> cb -> bearing ...

you suggest

screw -> bearing -> bearing -> cb -> bearing ...

Is that right?
 
The manual I'm looking at show from the inside out:
Washer (X694) > Bearing B021 (86121) > Bell > Bearing B021 > spacer (86121) > screw (Z517)

Shims should be used to adjust the bell forward if needed and should only touch the inside of the bearing. Shims should be used not washers. You can also shim the front for play again, using shims not washers.

Manual. Page 36
http://rcdocuments.com/file_info/download.php?file=HPI_Savage_SS_46_Manual.pdf

Edit:
I think what is happining is that the spacer is touching the bearing when you tighten it. Try a shim between them to hold the spacer off the outside of the bearing.

Washer (X694) > Bearing B021 (86121) > Bell > Bearing B021 > SHIM > spacer (86121) > screw (Z517)
 
Yep, that is the problem fasteddy. I didn't know shim was different than washer. The shims must have a smaller diameter then so they don't rub the outside of the bearing. I'll try to pick some up today and see what I can do.

One thing though - if I'm tightening against the clutchbell, that means I'm tightening against the bearing itself. Is the bearing designed to be able to take a load like that? The inside ring being pushed against the outside ring? Am I making sense?

Also - I think a second shim would work between the first washer and bearing since its rubbing there too.
 
As long as it’s only against the inside race it will take a load. The inside race stays stationary (rotates with the shaft) and the outside of the race spins free (Letting the Bell spin)

Basically you want to have the centers compressing all the way down the shaft and the outers against the bell so it spins freely or independent from the shaft. If you have play or need to adjust the bell from front to back, you will use shims accordingly that only touch the inner race.
 
Today was shop day. I bought electronics and asked lots of questions and left with less zeros in my bank account than before. I am now fully stocked to start the engine tomorrow.

The guy at the shop said he did the exact same thing I did to get around the rubbing =). Awesome.

I tore down the chassis today to install the electronics, add thread lock sauce, and doublecheck all my work. Once I was clear, I finished up with wheels and servo linkage.

Here are my electronics in test phase. No problems at all. I got talked in to an expensive steering servo because hey... why not. I hate stuff that doesn't work 100%.

testelectronics8wi.jpg


Here is a closeup of the throttle and brake linkage. A lot of room for improvement here. I'm not quite sure where to calibrate everything and I don't think I'll know until I start the engine up.

servo4ui.jpg


A final lugnut is installed on BeefCake 9000. Was it all hopes and dreams or will our new challenger eat dirt for breakfast?

finallugnut3hh.jpg


A final shot, hood up. Tommorow is the big day. Wish me luck!

finished9mj.jpg
 
Looks good man, take your time on the and do it right. Don't get frusterated if the engine won't run all that well, although I found the K4.6 to be very easy to break in. Good luck and aske plenty of questions!
 
Looks great so far. One little tidbit to chew on, though. When you get a chance, toss that 4 AA alkaline battery holder right out the window. Invest in a good, high capacity 5-cell, 6.0 volt rechargeable receiver battery pack. And when you install it in the radio box, use a switch with a charge lead that you can run out of the box. That way when the batteries go dead, you can just recharge without the hassle of taking the lid off the box and digging through.
 
Top notch build. :celebrate:

It great to see another person that does things right and thinks about the tasks at hand. Take your time and brake it in properly then bash the crap out of it.
 
DarkEnergy said:
hey rossb so instead of

screw -> spacer (I'm using washers here) -> bearing -> cb -> bearing ...

you suggest

screw -> bearing -> bearing -> cb -> bearing ...

Is that right?
Click to expand...

What I am suggesting is this, except replace the brass bushing 86121 with either some clutch shims or a clutch bell bearing. The crank/clutch screw will wear a serious notch in the brass bushing in no time and the bushing will move around. The clutch bell will then move forward off the clutch a bit. See the picture below.

brass.webp


IMO the clutch bell setup on a 3-shoe Savage clutch is a no brainer. Just follow the instructions and address the brass spacer issue and you will be fine. You will have a little bit of free play and the bell will spin very freely. You really do not have to play with shims with this setup.

On the other a hand a Centax setup like this requires very precise shimming and spring adjustments.
 
Got it rossb, thanks. I'm pretty sure I have one extra bearing that I can toss on there very next time I have it apart. For now I have washers in place of the spacer, but the screw is tightened on the drive shaft. Ultimately not the best setup compared to some of the other ideas. Thanks again.

How loud is this thing? I'm going to fire it up in about an hour in my back yard. Worried about neighbors...

Is it about like a weed whacker?
 

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