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Retread316

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OMG! This kind of liberal bleeding heart whining just pisses me off like nothing else. My liberal little sister sent this to me thinking I'd friggin AGREE!!! I've just got to share, vent and see some comments from all you guys!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sean Penn's Open Letter to George W. Bush

Nov. 3, 2002

An Open Letter to the President of the United States of America

Mr. Bush:

Good morning sir. Like you, I am a father and an American. Like you, I consider myself a patriot. Like you, I was horrified by the events of this
past year, concerned for my family and my country. However, I do not believe
in a simplistic and inflammatory view of good and evil. I believe this is a
big world full of men, women, and children who struggle to eat, to love, to
work, to protect their families, their beliefs, and their dreams. My father,
like yours, was decorated for service in World War II. He raised me with a
deep belief in Constitution and the Bill of Rights, as they should apply to all Americans who would sacrifice to maintain them and to all human beings
as a matter of principle.

Many of your actions to date and those proposed seem to violate every defining principle of this country over which you preside: intolerance of
debate ("with us or against us"), marginalization of your critics, the
promoting of fear through unsubstantiated rhetoric, manipulation of a quick
comfort media, and position of your administration's deconstruction of civil
liberties all contradict the very core of the patriotism you claim. You
lead, it seems, through a blood-lined sense of entitlement. Take a close
look at your most vehement media supporters.

See the fear in their eyes as their loud voices of support ring out with that historically disastrous undercurrent of rage and panic masked as "straight tough talk." How far have we come from understanding what it is to
kill one man, one woman, or one child, much less the "collateral damage" of
many hundreds of thousands. Your use of the words, "this is a new kind of
war" is often accompanied by an odd smile. It concerns me that what you are
asking of us is to abandon all previous lessons of history in favor of
following you blindly into the future. It worries me because with all your
best intentions, an enormous economic surplus has been squandered. Your
administration has virtually dismissed the most fundamental environmental
concerns and therefore, by implication, one gets the message that, as you
seem to be willing to sacrifice the children of the world, would you also be
willing to sacrifice ours. I know this cannot be your aim so, I beg you Mr.
President, listen to Gershwin, read chapters of Stegner, of Saroyan, the
speeches of Martin Luther King. Remind yourself of America. Remember the
Iraqi children, our children, and your own.

There can be no justification for the actions of Al Qaeda. Nor acceptance of
the criminal viciousness of the tyrant, Saddam Hussein.

Yet, that bombing is answered by bombing, mutilation by mutilation, killing
by killing, is a pattern that only a great country like ours can stop.
However, principles cannot be recklessly or greedily abandoned in the guise
of preserving them.

Avoiding war while accomplishing national security is no simple task. But
you will recall that we Americans had a little missile problem down in Cuba
once. Mr. Kennedy's restraint (and that of the nuclear submarine captain,
Arkhipov) is to be aspired to. Weapons of mass destruction are clearly a
threat to the entire world in any hands. But as Americans, we must ask
ourselves, since the potential for Mr. Hussein to possess them threatens not
only our country, (and in fact, his technology to launch is likely not yet
at that high a level of sophistication) therefore, many in his own region
would have the greatest cause for concern. Why then, is the United States, as led by your administration, in the small minority of the world nations
predisposed toward a preemptive military assault on Iraq? Simply put, sir,
let us re-introduce inspection teams, inhibiting offensive capability. We
buy time, maintain our principles here and abroad and demand of ourselves
the ingenuity to be the strongest diplomatic muscle on the planet, perhaps
in the history of the planet. The answers will come. You are a man of faith,
but your saber is rattling the faith of many Americans in you.

I do understand what a tremendously daunting task it must be to stand in your shoes at this moment. As a father of two young children who will live
their lives in the world as it will be affected by critical choices today, I
have no choice but to believe that you can ultimately stand as a great
president. History has offered you such a destiny. So again, sir, I beg you,
help save America before yours is a legacy of shame and horror. Don't
destroy our children's future. We will support you. You must support us,
your fellow Americans, and indeed, mankind.

Defend us from fundamentalism abroad but don't turn a blind eye to the fundamentalism of a diminished citizenry through loss of civil liberties, of
dangerously heightened presidential autonomy through acts of Congress, and
of this country's mistaken and pervasive belief that its "manifest destiny"
is to police the world. We know that Americans are frightened and angry.
However, sacrificing American soldiers or innocent civilians in an
unprecedented preemptive attack on a separate sovereign nation, may well
prove itself a most temporary medicine. On the other hand, should you mine
and have faith in the best of the country to support your leadership in
representing a strong, thoughtful, and educated United States, you may well triumph for the long haul. Lead us there, Mr. President, and we will stand
with you.

Sincerely,

Sean Penn

San Francisco, California
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
OK a couple Quick Commnets this is coming from an Actor and we all know the only ones that arn't or wernt nuts was Regan and Schwatzanegr <speeling>

Man this is the stuff that makes the world go round its the bleeding hearts that are causing our country to fall apart. As much as you would like to belive that I would like to destroy children, I wouldn't. I would like them to be brought up with a strict set of rules that are black and white so they can understand them. Our country is in a great time of distress right now. We are very fortunate to have had George Bush Elected. I can only fear where we would be if Al Gore was elected. The problem is people do not want to be held accountable for any thing there is to much get in touch with your softer side. Well leave the softer side to mommy and Sears . To many Great and Wonderful people have died for this country so that I can say what I think. I am not speaking German because of our forefathers. Think about what the elderly in this country think when they look at my parents generation and my genertion. Generation X Fooey on all you whiney little brats. We need to be thankful for our service men and women and we need to be thankful that we once again have a leader for our country that belives in right and wrong. One that has made mistakes but has been man enough to admit it. Not one that Bold Face lies to the whole world.
This may catch you off gaurd but the only thing we can do is pray for our president , our leaders and the men and women who have vowed to protect this country that they may make the best choices and that their hearts and minds are lead by God. The enemy we deal with starts training their warriors as babies. We have not even seen the tip of what is to come I am affraid. And it saddens me that we have people that so easily fall into beliving the rehtoric like the non-sense above. We have to protect our Country our People and Our Freedom. X
 
:stupid:
 
Last edited:
Why are all these letters from San Francisco, California?
Its a great place to live but I think I'm going to have to move.

You think this is bad; I have to drive through Bazerkly once or twice a week. I see a different protest on every street corner, I kid you not.

Sean Penn,
Didn’t you make a poop load of money making movies like Falcon and The Snowman? How much money did you spend supporting the Columbian Warlords and the Talaban by buying incredible amounts of Cocaine? Did this somehow melt your brain?

I look forward to your reply.
 
Great stuff folks! I suppose that Mr Penn will be one of those parents that believes that his "precious children" are "free spirits" and he wouldn't want to stifle them in any way with any sort of discipline - kind of like the way he wants us not to "stifle" or inhibit the tyrants of the world!

So his kids will grow up just as messed up and out of control as all the rest of the hollywoodish kiddies!
 
The letter simply reinforces my belief that people in Mr. Penn's position spend to much time playing "make believe". He is an actor after all. And anyone who has spent any time in Hollywood or near there knows that for some mutant reason, actors and actresses seem to have to have some agenda. Richard Gere in Tibet. A prime example. It carries no weight with me.
We were attacked because they knew we were soft. They knew we weren't looking. And now, letters like this encourage us to yet again look the other way. What should we do? Propose economic sanctions? OOOOOOOOOO!!! That'll hurt him. Why don't we just send a liason there to slap his hand and have it done with. I am disappointed by the sentiment of some in our own country. They beg for our government to be murciful. Yet none of the Middle Eastern coutries that we are targeting have shown any. Not one shred of consideration was given to any of the people in the planes, WTC or Pentagon. None. Yet citizens of our own country want us to just let it go. Simple fact. We let it go, it happens again. A bully steals your lunch money one day, and sure enough he'll be waiting for it the next.
Now I'm not totally saying just blow him up. But don't give in to the whining pansies who would rather just sweep this under the rug. I am thankful for a lot of things. Mostly the right to say what I want. Without fear of having my tongue cut out. But if we just scrap the whole thing and let it go, it will come back. All those responsible need to feel us staring at them. They need to live every day knowing we are right there. And if they slip just once, they can kiss their ass goodbye.

I say just leave all the spineless pansies to their own devices. Nature will sort them out. Funny how most of them live in California!!! No offense Eddy. I did live there once. ONCE!
 
Sean Penn needs to wake up and come come to reality. Or did he not see people celebrating joyously in Iraq, Pakistan, Afghannistan after the terrorist attacks in NY. Those people have nothing but pure hatred in there hearts for Americans, women and children included. If Iraq even get's a single atomic weapon there is no doubt he would use it on us. Then he will say Allah ordered it, that's the Muslim god, and his people will cheer. It's also important to note that we might not be able to prevent it form happening, if we attack or not. If God is for us who can be against us? But if God is continually being removed from our country, why should he stay and protect us any longer?
 
AAARRRRGGGHHH!!!! My own sister!

Here's our "conversation" via e-mail on this subject:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
My latest e-mail to her:

"We don't drop bombs on children"...our children don't SLAUGHTER and torture other children, specifically targeting innocents! The measure of discipline must be commensurate with the transgression AND the potential for future transgressions!!

Do you realize the outrageous crimes against humanity...not just US or western civilization - but THEIR OWN FRIGGIN PEOPLE they've committed!? Liberal BLEEDING HEART BLINDNESS and double friggin standards! "Oh, we must stop all the crimes against humanity!"..."We can't hurt anyone, bomb anyone or step on anyone's toes"!

We use VERY expensive, extremely high tech hardware to minimize to the highest degree the possibility of injuring or killing innocent people (modern media has blown this damned fact of war so far out of proportion that it makes me sick). We target military facilities, targeting VERY well researched targets that fit very specific parameters. They do to! The criteria is just a wee bit different! We look for military specific targets. They look for INNOCENT CIVILIANS! I can't believe that you buy into this friggin bleeding heart - leave them alone nonesense...

OMG!! Unleash global nuclear war? Don't you think that might be what we are trying to PREVENT!? How much restraint do you think a tyrant like Sadam will have when he builds up a nulcear arsenal? He already uses NERVE GAS on his OWN INNOCENT PEOPLE! I can't believe that you are sold on the bleeding heart, liberal rhetoric....


-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 9:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE:


Maybe a similar parallel to disicplining children, however we don't drop
bombs on children and thus threaten to unleash a global nuclear war on the
world, and kill lots of innocent people.

??Soon enough the "children" are in control and
>all hell breaks loose (as in current Western civilization).

To what are you referring?


>From: "Donaldson, Keith" <[email protected]>
>To: '' <>
>Subject: RE: Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:01:40 -0700
>
>Yep, yep...figured you did or you wouldn't have sent it. We'll have to
>"open this can of worms" while you are here visiting...
>
>I do agree with a few points...but are we to let disobediant "children"
>get away without discipline? If the US does not stand up for what's
>right in the world...then who the heck is going to?
>
>What the heck are we supposed to do? Diplomacy does NOT work with
>these radicals! We set a deadline or draw a line in the sand...they
>cross that line and we (the UN) keeps backing up and saying, "it's ok".
>
>It is an EXACT parallel to disciplining children. The parental word
>and line in the sand has to be black and white - cross the line and
>consequential action MUST be take or else the "children" LEARN to push
>back just a little more each time. Soon enough the "children" are in
>control and all hell breaks loose (as in current Western civilization).
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [mailto:]
>Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 6:30 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE:
>
>
>i totally agree w/ him.
>
> >From: "Donaldson, Keith" <[email protected]>
> >To: '' <>
> >Subject: RE: Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:42:57 -0700
> >
> >What a panty waist snivling liberal whiner!
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: [mailto:]
> >Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:51 PM
> >To:

[original Sean Penn diatribe]
 
Thanks for that clip X it almost made me cry all over again, I almost forgot how gut wrenching, horrible it was. God Bless the USA!
 
I say we shoot Sean Penn while we are at it!
 
And any other blithering, bleading heart, whiny, snot nosed, panty waisted liberal that has more money than brains.
 
Originally posted by Freedom
Thanks for that clip X it almost made me cry all over again, I almost forgot how gut wrenching, horrible it was. God Bless the USA!
Man I saw that a few weeks ago. I have no quams about what the president wants to do. But let me tell you anytime you start to forget or you start to think man this is taking to long or we shouldn't be messing with these people or persuing this war on terror watch that video and if you are a true AMERICAN you will feel so many emotions that you can't help but want to destroy all those crazy radicals. X
 
Hmmm lets see how to say this. Retread tell your sister its nice to see she feels safe enough to speak her mind while she sits safe here in the USA. Its also nice to see Sean Penn voicing his views on how things should be run. Its nice to know the terrorists have not won if people still feel safe enough to speak there minds.


Now that I've played nice its time to voice my views. Iraq should be turned into a 30ft thick sheet of glass. And if Sean thinks his life would be better if he lived in Iraq then get the hell out of the USA and go live there and see how you likes it, and take your wife and kids with you if they feel the way you do about how things are being run here... I would say more but there is no need to.


Hunter

P.S. tell your sister to have a nice thanksgiving courtesy of the US Armed Forces and the rest of the people that keep her safe.
 
Well we may not have been in this spot if that idiot, clinton, would've done something about it a long time ago. All he did was slap their hands and say, now be good or we'll launch another tiny missel.

We have do something more than just slap their hands, face it. saddam isn't afraid to use weapons of mass destruction.

I'm sorry if I offended anybody. If I did, you'll get over it. :normal:
 
Hunter...a little more about my little sis...
I served 12 years in the A.F. - right through Desert Storm.
Our father served twenty years in the A.F. - he died 10 years into retirement of complications (cancer) from exposure to Agent Orange in Vietnam.
Our grandfather served 25 years in the A.F. - including a tour in Korea.
Our uncle served 20 years including a tour in 'nam in F-4's.

So what the heck happened to her conservative upbringing?
- 6 years of liberal college
- 4 years living in very liberal part of downtown Washington D.C.
- AND the last 4 years soaking up all kinds of ridiculous ideas and thoughts in San friggin Francisco.
 
See the thing is what needs to happen is someone needs to come up with an email to circulate about how shan penn feels about the us and susan suranden and he wack job husband and tom cruise and all these jerk offs that get RICH and prosper greatly beacause of the American life style but then they say they dont want to live here because its not a good place to raise thier kids and bla bla bla. You know what that jerk off Alex Whats his name aint moved yet I keep waiting . Anyway we need to not support these people at all don't by their dvd's or tapes dont go see them at the movie and tell your friends not to but and make sure you tell them why not to. Thats the only thing that matters to these self righous left wing Liberal bleeding heart idiots. Is when you hit them in the Pocket book. Opps almost forgot Richard Gere I wouldn't support him cause hes a pansy pole smoker but his political views are even worse telling the 9-11 people to think about the arabs nice one buddy. X
 
Retread some of my back ground:)

Mothers side.
Great grand father German Army WW1
Grand Father German Army WW2
2 uncles German Army at 14 and 15 end of WW2
And way to many cousins to list in the German Army now and in the past.

Fathers side.
Grand father ww2 side USA
Father vietnam 20+ years service died 1 year after vietnam (cancer).
Me started as a 12B10 and left service as S-O.


Men and Women die every day to keep us safe from the bad guys and what do our schools teach our kids??? Guns are bad people need to be more forgiving of others and what they do no matter what they do. I did my time and did what I had to do when it had to be done enough said.

Tell your sister to keep speaking her mind and to feel safe because there are alot of good people out there right now paying the price to keep her safe this Thanksgiving.

Well its almost time for me to go, I'm having dinner with two squids (Navy people) I dont know. There along way from home and dont have any family out here to share this day with, so there going to spend it at moms house with good people and good food and I hope we can be there new extended family atleast for the day:)

Hunter.
 
From the Washington Post:

My Heart on the Line

By Frank Schaeffer

Tuesday, November 26, 2002; Page A29

Before my son became a Marine, I never thought much about who was defending me. Now when I read of the war on terrorism or the coming conflict in Iraq, it cuts to my heart. When I see a picture of a member of our military who has been killed, I read his or her name very carefully. Sometimes I cry.

In 1999, when the barrel-chested Marine recruiter showed up in dress blues and bedazzled my son John, I did not stand in the way. John was headstrong, and he seemed to understand these stern, clean men with straight backs and flawless uniforms. I did not. I live on the Volvo-driving, higher education-worshiping North Shore of Boston. I write novels for a living. I have never served in the military.

It had been hard enough sending my two older children off to Georgetown and New York University. John's enlisting was unexpected, so deeply unsettling. I did not relish the prospect of answering the question "So where is John going to college?" from the parents who were itching to tell me all about how their son or daughter was going to Harvard. At the private high school John attended, no other students were going into the military.

"But aren't the Marines terribly Southern?" asked one perplexed mother while standing next to me at the brunch following graduation. "What a waste, he was such a good student," said another parent. One parent (a professor at a nearby and rather famous university) spoke up at a school meeting and suggested that the school should "carefully evaluate what went wrong."

When John graduated from three months of boot camp on Parris Island, 3,000 parents and friends were on the parade deck stands. We parents and our Marines not only were of many races but also were representative of many economic classes. Many were poor. Some arrived crammed in the backs of pickups, others by bus. John told me that a lot of parents could not afford the trip.

We in the audience were white and Native American. We were Hispanic, Arab and African American and Asian. We were former Marines wearing the scars of battle, or at least baseball caps emblazoned with battles' names. We were Southern whites from Nashville and skinheads from New Jersey, black kids from Cleveland wearing ghetto rags and white ex-cons with ham-hock forearms defaced by jailhouse tattoos. We would not have been mistaken for the educated and well-heeled parents gathered on the lawns of John's private school a half-year before.

After graduation one new Marine told John, "Before I was a Marine, if I had ever seen you on my block I would've probably killed you just because you were standing there." This was a serious statement from one of John's good friends, an African American ex-gang member from Detroit who, as John said, "would die for me now, just like I'd die for him."

My son has connected me to my country in a way that I was too selfish and insular to experience before. I feel closer to the waitress at our local diner than to some of my oldest friends. She has two sons in the Corps. They are facing the same dangers as my boy. When the guy who fixes my car asks me how John is doing, I know he means it. His younger brother is in the Navy.

Why were I and the other parents at my son's private school so surprised by his choice? During World War II, the sons and daughters of the most powerful and educated families did their bit. If the immorality of the Vietnam War was the only reason those lucky enough to go to college dodged the draft, why did we not encourage our children to volunteer for military service once that war was done?

Have we wealthy and educated Americans all become pacifists? Is the world a safe place? Or have we just gotten used to having somebody else defend us? What is the future of our democracy when the sons and daughters of the janitors at our elite universities are far more likely to be put in harm's way than are any of the students whose dorms their parents clean?

I feel shame because it took my son's joining the Marine Corps to make me take notice of who is defending me. I feel hope because perhaps my son is part of a future "greatest generation." As the storm clouds of war gather, at least I know that I can look the men and women in uniform in the eye. My son is one of them. He is the best I have to offer. He is my heart.

Frank Schaeffer is a writer. His latest book, co-written with his son, Marine Cpl. John Schaeffer, is "Keeping Faith: A Father-Son Story About
Love and the United States Marine Corps." He will answer questions about this article in a Live Online discussion at 1 p.m. today at www.washingtonpost.com.

© 2002 The Washington Post Company

In God I trust. Everybody else----keep your hands where I can see 'em.
 
I was trying desperately to stay away from posting a reply in this thread. I read and clicked on X's link. The slide show that opened up brought me to tears.

So often I go in to work wondering if today will be the day, the day that I am told to lay down my life for God and country. So often I wonder is today going to be the day that I have to lead the men in my charge to their deaths or give them the final order that will force them to make the ultimate sacrifice for the freedoms that many take for granted.

I think that those who do not realize what great courage and strength of resolve it takes for our President to not unload our full arsenal on those responsible for such heinous acts, need to take a serious look at their lives and the freedoms that they enjoy.

This country was founded on freedom, not just some freedoms...but all freedoms. Freedom to speak your mind in any forum. Freedom to live how you choose and where you choose. Freedom to have a lifestyle that may be incongruous with everything around you. Freedom to exist in any way shape or form that you choose. The list can go on and on, but I think that our founding fathers did an admirable job framing those freedoms in our Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Those founding fathers didn't just wake up and say lets make a change. They had to fight for it. There have been many instances through out our country's relatively peaceful history where we have been called upon to defend the freedoms we cherish and those same freedoms that others in different parts of the world desire.

Those of you who have too many liberal bones in your body for common sense to take a hold of, realize this. We have the most powerful military force in the world. We have the ability to level the entire planet if we had the need to or felt so compelled. The fact that we are exercising great restraint in our persuit of the perpetrators of this most villainous act is beyond comprehension. If you think that those who have done this are finished, you need to take a seriously hard look at the way they think.

Take a trip to their homeland. See how they treat Americans. Wait a minute...while you are there, you may need to assume the identity of another nationality. Why? THEY KILL AMERICANS. These people have lived all their lives in hardship and hatred. The innocents that you speak of...they do exist, but are the minority (a very small microscopic minority). You are talking about a people who indoctrinate their children into this hatred at a very young age. They train them to fight and kill and yes die for their beliefs.

You don't like the way we do business. MOVE. You think that our leadership is misquided. MOVE. Those of you who complain the loudest and are the most recognized by your stardom, if you do not like the freedom that has allowed you to get where you are today. MOVE.

There are more than a few people in this country who would like nothing more than to level every third world nation out there that gets in our way. Believe me there is not a man or woman in the military that wouldn't volunteer to push that big button and make a huge smoking crater out of the places these people hide or to make (as Hunter so poignantly described) a sheet of glass out of their little homes...BUT, we all believe that our strength lies in our restraint. We are not about to go and do another Hiroshima or Nagasaki. That is the absolute last thing we will do, and we are no where near that extreme.

To the liberals out there...war is ugly. People die, innocents and soldiers alike. If you think that we are not at war...think again.

I am the son of a US Naval Officer. My grandfather died a Colonel in the US Army. My great grandfather and their fathers and brothers and sons...have fought and died in every conflict this great nation has been involved in as far back as I can trace my family tree. I am a United States Naval Officer. I am proud to serve my country. I am proud to protect the freedoms my family enjoys. I am willing to lay down my life at any time to protect those same freedoms for every American.
 

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