like I said it's an art.....I know a kid who actually used a vise and a collar and did one, I laughed at him the whole time until 2 weeks later when he was supposedly running that half assed pinch and it was wailing on the track......he's a pretty nice guy and I really don't think he was pulliing a fast one...I think he just got really F'ing lucky....then I see guys w/ V-specs got pinched by a "pro" at pinching and they SUCKED.....it's worth the 20 bucks to try it before spending 120 on some of the P/S sets.....