No power to the rear

[bill_delong]

As luck will have it, I just spotted the following product page where WLG is in fact recommended for plain and anti-friction bearings which are what we are using in our toy cars:

It specifically states that it's not intended for "wheel bearings" which are a completely different bearing design in full size cars

 

[WickedFog]

As luck will have it, I just spotted the following product page where WLG is in fact recommended for bearings:
View attachment 200144

Yeah, in slow moving assemblies. Plain bearing is simply a bushing. Anti-friction is indeed a roller bearing, but WLG is not meant for high RPM applications. That is the reason for the paragraph just below the one you have circled, which reads:

"Recommended for use in automotive chassis, trucks, tractors, and contractor equipment. Not recommended for use in wheel bearings".

I worked around machinery since the age of 9. Ran CNC machines for over 25 years. Worked in shops that made machine presses, punches, etc. I know you think it works. More power to ya bro. But WLG is not intended for what you are using it for. Hence the grease turns black because it isn't properly protecting the bearings from wear. Which is possibly why you feel the need to change it every two hours. But just so you know, my dad (who was a diesel mechanic for a time) would have beat my ass if he saw me use white lithium grease in a bearing.

The reason it says it's not meant for wheel bearings is because of the speed. Not because they are sealed or not.

 

[bill_delong]

..the grease turns black because it isn't properly protecting the bearings from wear. Which is possibly why you feel the need to change it every two hours...

The reason it says it's not meant for wheel bearings is because of the speed. Not because they are sealed or not.

Please stop pulling my recommendation out of context, it's best practice to inspect the bearings for wear every 2 hours, but I often see bearings go 8+ hours of wear with WLG before they start to turn black and need cleaning + re-pack. Clear bearing grease should still be inspected every 2 hours in dusty conditions and this interval can be increased as the owner performs regular inspections for their respective driving condition. Ironically the wheel bearings in our toy cars can go significantly longer compared to the bearings on the diffs which support the outdrives, especially in a dusty condition on dirt or sand. WLG turns black due to dirt getting past the rubber seals, I can verify this because the WLG is still white inside the diff on the metal gears when I perform my inspections where these wear points are significantly more abrasive due to no smooth rolling ball action. These internal metal gears are experiencing the same relative amount of RPM as the bearings, if anything the gears are experiencing a higher RPM!

That said, I have observed clear bearing grease turn black in the same manner that WLG does, albeit the clear grease provides a slightly better seal preventing dirt from penetrating the seal just a little bit longer than WLG does, though this improved seal is negligible. Clear bearing grease doesn't perform as well as WLG overall which is why I have made the switch with no long term adverse effects, in fact my internal gears tend to last longer with WLG which compounds my long term savings

Wheel bearings in full size cars are completely different from the anti-friction bearings we use in our toy cars, the product recommendation is for anti-friction bearings which we use well below moderate load due to the extremely light weight application of our toy scale cars.

 

[WickedFog]

Whatever you say Bill. I'm done beating a dead horse. You do you.

 

[Greywolf74]

I thought we already hashed this out before in another post. I don't even care whether you should or shouldn't at this point. I just can't fathom why someone as serious as you seem to be about racing isn't using actual low viscosity bearing oil, especially if you're maintaining your bearings every two hours of run time. You've said in the past because it's cheap, and it worked better than whatever you were using previously. A 1oz bottle of bearing oil can be had for as little as $9 Shipped from Amazon and that is enough oil to last for at least a year since you only need a few drops of it per bearing. Granted, WLG is cheaper, but the point is, bearing oil is not expensive. Also, I don't recall what you were using before, but there's no way that WLG performs better than actual bearing oil, so again I can't understand your decision to use WLG over bearing oil.

Here's what ChatGPT says:
"White Lithium Grease (WLG) is generally not recommended for RC wheel bearings. RC wheel bearings typically require a lubricant that is low in viscosity to reduce friction and allow smooth spinning at high speeds. White Lithium Grease is thicker and can cause increased resistance, potentially affecting performance. Instead, a lightweight bearing oil or a specialized bearing grease designed for high-speed applications is preferred for RC wheel bearings to ensure optimal performance and protection."


I found a thread on RCTech (which is biased toward racers) discussing what various people use to clean and lube their bearings with, and not a single person in this thread recommends WLG. Spoiler alert, almost all of them recommend bearing oil.
https://www.rctech.net/forum/electr...w-clean-what-lubricant-use-rc-bearings-3.html


This blurb for TireExpert.com talks about one of the limitations of WLG in wheel bearings:

"5.3 Thinning at High Speeds​

At extremely high speeds, lithium grease may experience thinning due to the centrifugal force exerted on the grease within the bearing. This thinning could potentially lead to reduced lubrication effectiveness and increased friction. Therefore, for applications involving high-speed rotation, especially in racing vehicles or heavy machinery, alternative lubricants, such as oil-based lubricants, may be more suitable. Again, it is crucial to consider the specific operating conditions and follow the recommendations of the bearing or vehicle manufacturer."
https://tierexpert.com/can-you-use-lithium-grease-for-wheel-bearings

The takeaway here is, there are a lot of websites out there that say WLG is ok to use in wheel bearings, but most of them also say it's not ideal compared to bearing specific lubes, so if YOU want to use WLG in your bearings then by all means you do you, but from my perspective (and I'm pretty sure most others) it's not the best thing to use by any stretch of the imagination, so I personally wouldn't go around recommending it to others.

 

[bill_delong]

The problem is that folks are confusing recommendations for full scale cars.

As discussed earlier, thin high speed bearing oil is best for racing 1/10 stock classes at the expense of higher maintenance

Grease is best for running open mod classes... the type of grease used has various pros/cons and I have observed that WLG is the overall best grease in terms of price + performance + long term longevity.

Trust me, if I was experiencing any issues what-so-ever, I would be the first to report my findings!

 

[Greywolf74]

The problem is that folks are confusing recommendations for full scale cars.

I'm not talking about Automotive cars and nether was ChatGPT. There's no real difference in the way that an automotive bearing works and an RC wheel bearing.
ChatGPT had this to say:
"The recommendation against using White Lithium Grease typically pertains to automotive wheel bearings due to the high demands of these applications. While it can be used for some RC wheel bearings, it is generally not the optimal choice. RC applications might tolerate WLG in some scenarios, but other lubricants are usually preferred to ensure smoother operation and easier maintenance."

As discussed earlier, thin high speed bearing oil is best for racing 1/10 stock classes at the expense of higher maintenance

Grease is best for running open mod classes... the type of grease used has various pros/cons and I have observed that WLG is the overall best grease in terms of price + performance + long term longevity.

This is a contradiction. You recommend everyone services their wheel bearings every 2 hours, and you say that's what you do, but if that's true then the longevity of it isn't really a factor. The performance part of your equation doesn't make sense either, since there are other cheap alternatives that are better. So really all you have left is price and you got me there. I can't come up with an argument for that point. It is about $4 cheaper than bearing oil.

 

[bill_delong]

I addressed these concerns where "Oil" is best for 1/10 stock racing and "Grease" is best for all open mod classes, that's the main difference.

I agree that one can nitpick 5 different types of grease being the best for very specific needs, but my point is that the overall best grease is WLG for all practical applications around our RC cars between synthetic rubber seals for our shocks/diffs as well as metal gears between the crown/pinion gears and our shielded anti-friction bearings.

I have played the game of having 3 different syringes filled with different types of grease and this just isn't practical nor was I seeing any particular benefit switching/maintaining multiple grease types.... been there done that

 

[Chubaka]

I'm starting to get Deja Vu.

 

[WickedFog]

I'm starting to get Deja Vu.

It's ok. Even Lucas Oil claimed It's not for wheel bearings. And my communication with one of their CS agents confirmed it is not the ideal grease for high speed applications. I just don't want misinformation spread on the forum.

 

[Greywolf74]

I addressed these concerns where "Oil" is best for 1/10 stock racing and "Grease" is best for all open mod classes, that's the main difference.

Oil is the best for performance. Period, end of story. You can use whatever you FEEL is the best for you, but it's not a good recommendation, and it's solely based on your opinion. Not even your fellow racers use much of anything but bearing oil. (I'm referring to RCTech not your local track btw)

but my point is that the overall best grease is WLG for all practical applications around our RC cars between synthetic rubber seals for our shocks/diffs as well as metal gears between the crown/pinion gears and our shielded anti-friction bearings.

You can't say it's the best grease when you're saying that the only reason you use it is that it's cheap and because you don't want to bother with an additional lube or two. It's no harder to pick up a bottle of bearing oil, or a tub of synthetic grease, than it is to pick up a tube of Lucas WLG. Again, if that is your preference then you do you boo, but it's solely the opinion of YOU and doesn't seem to be shared by anyone else on this forum or RCTech. It's one thing to say "I use WLG on wheel bearings because I like it." and "I use WLG on bearings because it's the best. (or better than XYZ)" when it's clearly not.

 

[Tunedfrog]

I use Canola oil when deep frying fish.

 

[WickedFog]

Just gonna drop this here

 

[Greywolf74]

Just gonna drop this here
View attachment 200300

Between the unnecessary heat being generated in the bearings and the added resistance, I'd speculate that's the reason the WLG is turning black in Bill's cars after a couple/few hours of run time. It is a combination of the WLG breaking down from excessive heat and/or extra bearing wear from added resistance. Again, that is speculation on my part, and I'm sure Bill will disagree, but that would be my guess since I would think dirt would simply turn it brown or red. I guess in the long run it doesn't really matter as I don't have that issue running bearing oil.

 

[Lumikko]

I’m a fine mechanic (studied in 1999–2002) and a current student of mechanical engineering (never too late lol). The familiar bearing and fasterer sizes to me are only a few mm. M4 screws are huge in the applications I deal with.

The intermittent and generally low loads on RC car bearings are such that you can probably get away with WLG if that’s what you like. It’s thin enough to not drag the bearings down excessively, and I think 1/10th scale buggies are unlikely to overload the grease. The bearing seals and polymer parts are oil-resistant to a degree that I doubt WLG would be too quick to cause chemical damage. I’m afraid there’s a tendency to make a mountain out of a mole hill when discussing the downsides.

However, it’s not the best-performing lubricant for the job, either – and not even the best-performing grease for these bearings. Without getting into the price, WLG is not something I would recommend.

The brand-name RC lubricants have a ridiculous unit price but when the tube costs a few dollars and easily lasts a couple of years, I don’t see an opportunity to save a significant amount of money there.

 

[WickedFog]

I’m a fine mechanic (studied in 1999–2002) and a current student of mechanical engineering (never too late lol). The familiar bearing and fasterer sizes to me are only a few mm. M4 screws are huge in the applications I deal with.

The intermittent and generally low loads on RC car bearings are such that you can probably get away with WLG if that’s what you like. It’s thin enough to not drag the bearings down excessively, and I think 1/10th scale buggies are unlikely to overload the grease. The bearing seals and polymer parts are oil-resistant to a degree that I doubt WLG would be too quick to cause chemical damage. I’m afraid there’s a tendency to make a mountain out of a mole hill when discussing the downsides.

However, it’s not the best-performing lubricant for the job, either – and not even the best-performing grease for these bearings. Without getting into the price, WLG is not something I would recommend.

The brand-name RC lubricants have a ridiculous unit price but when the tube costs a few dollars and easily lasts a couple of years, I don’t see an opportunity to save a significant amount of money there.

The RC industry has always had inflated prices for fluids and such. Take Associated's Green Slime for example.

Green Slime shock lube is sold for roughly $270 per ounce.

The exact same product (Polymer 400) can be purchased for $1.43 per ounce.
Liquid-O-Ring Polymer 400 Premium Tractor Grease (14oz) – Great for Bearings, Valves, and More - Made in The USA, Lithium-Complex Based, High-Temperature, Water-Repellent https://a.co/d/aMvY1As

 

[Chubaka]

The RC industry has always had inflated prices for fluids and such. Take Associated's Green Slime for example.

Green Slime shock lube is sold for roughly $270 per ounce.

The exact same product (Polymer 400) can be purchased for $1.43 per ounce.
Liquid-O-Ring Polymer 400 Premium Tractor Grease (14oz) – Great for Bearings, Valves, and More - Made in The USA, Lithium-Complex Based, High-Temperature, Water-Repellent https://a.co/d/aMvY1As

Don't forget about nuts and bolts. Rc companies screw you there too. It's nuts.

 

[Greywolf74]

Don't forget about nuts and bolts. Rc companies screw you there too. It's nuts.

dont forget bolts!

 

[bill_delong]

Aside from the countless hours and rebuilds in the testing I've done with WLG over many years with a proven track record of it's success both in performance and cost savings, there is still a more important issue that needs to be addressed.

The following example are bearings pulled from a practically new kit after the very first 2 hours of run time, kit was blown with an air compressor after every run and the chassis still looks like new, however the bearings are in need of cleaning which is simply wiping them with a rag as a preventative from any dust/debris from penetrating the rubber seals:

After pulling the seals to inspect the bearings, I found 3 bearings on the top right of the following pic to already have lost sufficient grease, starting to turn black and are in need of of being flushed and packed with fresh grease, this is literally the exact same results I see when refreshing my bearings with WLG over the same usage interval, wear/performance etc..

Regardless of someone wanting to pack fresh grease or not, the bearings in the first pic absolutely need to be wiped down to remove buildup of dirt which otherwise will degrade the bearings faster regardless of the choice of grease used.

 

[Lumikko]

The RC industry has always had inflated prices for fluids and such. Take Associated's Green Slime for example.

Green Slime shock lube is sold for roughly $270 per ounce.

The exact same product (Polymer 400) can be purchased for $1.43 per ounce.

That’s correct.

I choose to accept the higher unit price in most cases because the industrial bulk packagings often have way more content than I need, and the price tag is way higher even if the unit price is laughably low.