Final Proof for what I call BS - top speed

[M@xximillion]

Originally posted by nitronewbie
funny thing is that the damn 4-tec was the fastest out there! lol. [/B]

look at the engine that was in it:yes: Like I have said before, the 2.5 is the baddest small block I've ever seen.

 

[TINY_MAXX]

How is the 2.5 better though its still a .15 ??And they say all those Italian engines are better !!What a lie that is..

 

[nitro dave]

The 4 tec was the fastet sure, but the rusty is also the fastest stadium truck. If fastest=best, then traxxas would be on top, but there is that little thing I like to call handling.

 

[TINY_MAXX]

Ya but couldn't you just lower a stadium truck and get the same handeling.The lower a vehicle is the better the handeling.So if you just lower a Ae or something you should be able to get the same handling as others wouldn't you ??

 

[nitro dave]

Tiny-
I think you misread my post. I was only saying that all 2.5 traxxas vehicles are fast, but none of them are world class, which is why you NEVER see them on the winners stand. A lot of people think that fastest=best, and that is simply not the case.

 

[Çh®i§tiªñ]

Anyone here see the Sirio .18 run side by side with a 2.5 Traxxas mill?

 

[TINY_MAXX]

Ya i know what you mean,But if you wanted to go fast with lets say a stadium truck.Wouldn't you put it as low as you can get it ?For handeling reasons.And yes some people do think the faster it goes the better it is..Its not the car that makes the driver but the driver that makes the car !!:thumbsup:

 

[M@xximillion]

Originally posted by nitro dave
The 4 tec was the fastet sure, but the rusty is also the fastest stadium truck. If fastest=best, then traxxas would be on top, but there is that little thing I like to call handling.

I agree, the traxxas vehicles are not the best in handling.
But, they do supply you with the best stock engine, this, IMHO is undebatable. The 2.5 in the fastest most powerful .15ci engine made today. I have seen the siro run, it is a nice engine it can run with the 2.5.

 

[TINY_MAXX]

I'll still havn't seen the siro run....I want to see if is better or pretty much the same as the trx 2.5 . No one i know has the siro...(yet).There hasn't been one at the LHS.They must be selling like hotcakes.:sniper:

 

[Nitroaddict]

okay here is the deal with the traxxas 2.5

1. it is very over geared in all its vehicles. if i geared my ntc3 that high, it would go that fast too.
2. the engine has incredible horsepower, somewhere around 1.2 i think. however, if u look at is torque rating, it is almost half of what my rossi is, which is also putting out about 1.1 hp.
---- for all of you who are not knowledgable in automotive mechanics. horsepower does not equal engine speed. all it does is maintain an engine at a specific rpm. torque is what generates acceleration. if u have an engine that produces 1000lb/ft of torque but only 100hp, vs the direct opposite. - the high torque engine would smoke the hifgh hp engine off the line everytime. and in racing, acceleration means everything.

well that and handling - of which the traxxas products have none

 

[M@xximillion]

Originally posted by nitronewbie
okay here is the deal with the traxxas 2.5

1. it is very over geared in all its vehicles. if i geared my ntc3 that high, it would go that fast too.
2. the engine has incredible horsepower, somewhere around 1.2 i think. however, if u look at is torque rating, it is almost half of what my rossi is, which is also putting out about 1.1 hp.
---- for all of you who are not knowledgable in automotive mechanics. horsepower does not equal engine speed. all it does is maintain an engine at a specific rpm. torque is what generates acceleration. if u have an engine that produces 1000lb/ft of torque but only 100hp, vs the direct opposite. - the high torque engine would smoke the hifgh hp engine off the line everytime. and in racing, acceleration means everything.

well that and handling - of which the traxxas products have none

Not a high torque engine hmmm, what Rossi are you comparing it to? Let me say this, torque, is what enables me to flip my T-Maxx on it's lid at will. Being able to do that with a stock.15 is impressive. You said the T maxx is over geared? Wrong, over geared means it would be a dog down low. Not only can it wheelie I can easily whip donuts on dry pavement with enough force to flip it over, that spells torque dude, no if ands or buts. I am not by any means a traxxas loyalist, I am calling it like it is, plain and simple.

 

[solo racer]

Originally posted by nitronewbie
for all of you who are not knowledgable in automotive mechanics. horsepower does not equal engine speed. all it does is maintain an engine at a specific rpm. torque is what generates acceleration. if u have an engine that produces 1000lb/ft of torque but only 100hp, vs the direct opposite. - the high torque engine would smoke the hifgh hp engine off the line everytime. and in racing, acceleration means everything.

Oh no! That is simply not true. Case in point. My old 1988 BMW M3 would put 161hp and 143lb/ft to the rear wheels. My 1987 325is race car makes 155hp and 151lb/ft to the rear wheels. Both have the same gearing in the transmission and rear end, same tires size, etc. The M3 weighed about 40lbs MORE than the 325is. The M3 was faster when you put both of them to the test. It was less apparent at low speeds and around town it felt slower but when run all out it would ALWAYS beat the 325is.

What makes a car fast is HORSEPOWER and RPMS coupled with the PROPER GEARING.

My other example is the same two cars, same setup but the 325is had the stock 3.73 rear gears versus the M3's 4.10. The M3 would simple KILL the 325is at all speeds, and you could tell.

Sure, the torque is what accelerates the car, but the gearing multiplies the toruqe. An engine that revs higher will be able to take advantage of the lower gears and multiply the torque while maintaining the same top speed. The horsepower is made with torque and RPMS's, and horsepower is what determines how fast a car is as long as it's geared right. I would ALWAYS choose the high revving, high horsepower motor over the high torque, lower rpms motor in a racing application.

Oh yes, and from the dyno test I've seen and the non-biased test I've seen, the TRX 2.5 has more torque than pretty much any other small block out there, and same with the horsepower. It really is a killer motor, and Traxxas did a good job.

 

[Nitroaddict]

ok - first max - i was not refering to the tmaxx, i was reverring only to the 4tec, this was related to the radar tests of touring cars. second - the reason ur tmax does wheelies at will is to to the tremendous grip those tires provide - lower that maxx down, and put some radials on it, and it would stop doing wheelies. third - i am not bashing that engine at all, it is a great engine, i am just saying that it is no more powerful than any other high performance engine out there, IE - the os .15cv-r puts out just as much HP,and more torque than the 2.5

solo - Horsepower is what maintains a car at a given speed. yes, higher horsepower will equal a higher speed, but it will have nothing to so with acceleration. that is why u cannot physically measure HP on any engine, it must be derived from a formula based on engine displacement, rpm, and torque. by gearing the traxxas car high, it enables it to reach higher speeds, but it looses alot of acceleration. what i am saying, is that if u geared any high performance engine that way, they all would be just as fast.

 

[solo racer]

Originally posted by nitronewbie

solo - Horsepower is what maintains a car at a given speed. yes, higher horsepower will equal a higher speed, but it will have nothing to so with acceleration. that is why u cannot physically measure HP on any engine, it must be derived from a formula based on engine displacement, rpm, and torque. by gearing the traxxas car high, it enables it to reach higher speeds, but it looses alot of acceleration. what i am saying, is that if u geared any high performance engine that way, they all would be just as fast.

That is simply not true. Think of it this way: On a bicycle I can produce something around 240+lbs/ft of torue, but not even a horsepower. The bike does not attain a high top speed nor does it attain great acceleration.

 

[Nitroaddict]

LOL, solo - i have been involved in racing for almost 20 years, my father has been involved in racing for over 60 years. Trust me , this is something i know about.

Torque is measured with this formula: T = r x F = rF sin(0)

in other words, torque is the cross product between the distance vector and the force vector. Torque is a measure of how much a force is acting on an object causes that object to rotate.

To fully grasp the relationship between torque and acceleration, you will need to have a basic understanding of "moments of inertia"
You also have to understand newtons 2nd law: F tan = m a tan

If this is too advanced for you then think of it this way: Torque is a force that tends to rotate or turns things. Torque is measured (in the USA) in foot pounds. if a wrench is a foot long, and u put 200 pounds of force on it, u are generating 200 pound feet of torque. if u use a 2 foot wrench, u only need to put 100lbs on it. horsepwer can only be derived from a formula using torque as the variable. it IS NOT a measure related to the animal, the horse. the horsepower scale was designed by James Watt as a way of conveying his engines to the relative movement fo a horse drawn buggy. the final scale he came up with was T x D/Tm = HP. or torque x distance / time = hp. As u can see, to measure hp, u must first know torque, and yet hp has no bearing on the amount of torque an engine will produce. if u wish to see more on this subject, please respond, and i will send u some links to a couple of websites that may help.

Oh - and BTW - unless u weigh about 300lbs, u are not putting 240lb/ft of torque on that bicycle, buddy. And if u do weigh that much, then start drinkin some slim fast.

 

[nitro dave]

Originally posted by nitronewbie
LOL, solo - i have been involved in racing for almost 20 years, my father has been involved in racing for over 60 years. Trust me , this is something i know about.

Torque is measured with this formula: T = r x F = rF sin(0)

in other words, torque is the cross product between the distance vector and the force vector. Torque is a measure of how much a force is acting on an object causes that object to rotate.

To fully grasp the relationship between torque and acceleration, you will need to have a basic understanding of "moments of inertia"
You also have to understand newtons 2nd law: F tan = m a tan

If this is too advanced for you then think of it this way: Torque is a force that tends to rotate or turns things. Torque is measured (in the USA) in foot pounds. if a wrench is a foot long, and u put 200 pounds of force on it, u are generating 200 pound feet of torque. if u use a 2 foot wrench, u only need to put 100lbs on it. horsepwer can only be derived from a formula using torque as the variable. it IS NOT a measure related to the animal, the horse. the horsepower scale was designed by James Watt as a way of conveying his engines to the relative movement fo a horse drawn buggy. the final scale he came up with was T x D/Tm = HP. or torque x distance / time = hp. As u can see, to measure hp, u must first know torque, and yet hp has no bearing on the amount of torque an engine will produce. if u wish to see more on this subject, please respond, and i will send u some links to a couple of websites that may help.

Oh - and BTW - unless u weigh about 300lbs, u are not putting 240lb/ft of torque on that bicycle, buddy. And if u do weigh that much, then start drinkin some slim fast.

This is a good post nitronewbie, even though I do not understand it all. I am curious as to why on a maxx the new 2.5 will produce wheelies like mad, but it takes serious tweaking (CB's and etc) to get that same effect with say an os?

I know this post is about road cars, but it got me thinking, which is rare.

 

[solo racer]

Originally posted by nitronewbie
Oh - and BTW - unless u weigh about 300lbs, u are not putting 240lb/ft of torque on that bicycle, buddy. And if u do weigh that much, then start drinkin some slim fast.

Resorting to insults, man you are immature. Becuase I know you will whine like a little baby I am going to stop here. I KNOW I'm right and thats what matters.

 

[nitro dave]

Originally posted by solo racer
Resorting to insults, man you are immature. Becuase I know you will whine like a little baby I am going to stop here. I KNOW I'm right and thats what matters.

No offense, but that really wasn't an insult. If you read the post it says "unless" you weigh...then you are not. Not exactly calling you a fatass.

 

[solo racer]

Nitro Dave, To me, suggesting that ANYONE overweight should drink slimfast is rude and insulting. It could easily be interperated as calling me a fat ass if I was 300lbs, and for all he/you know(s) I could be.

 

[Nitroaddict]

with all due respect, solo, i assumed that u were not that heavy, as in your profile, it states that u race autocross. i too have raced in those events when i was younger. unless u havnt noticed, autox is all about handling and acceleration, not about top speed, since u rarely get out of 2nd gear. if u were indeed that heavy, i am sure u would not be participating well in autox. alas, racing is a very strenuous sport, and in 20years, i have never seen a 300lb professional race car driver. i was mearly stating that if u plug your comment into the formula based n a bicycle pedal crank being approx 10inches long, it would take about 300lbs to create a force vector of 240lb/ft.

And, for further comment, as i have not resorted to any childish behavior, and have backed my argument up with proven scientific theory, i wonder how u could still call me incorrect, as u have yet to prove your comment true, and have now resorted in what i like to call the "nani-nani-booboo" strategy of arguing. Please state your comment with facts, and references to back it up, and i might further comment on this post. If you have no evidence to back up your comments, then please refer to www.webmd.com, as i do believe they have a pill that will help u cope with foot-in-mouth disease. thank you.

nitro dave - as i have not seen the tmaxx with various mills, as u mention, i cannot make an accurate judgement. Am i correct in the statement, that u have put several different engines into the exact same tmaxx, and checked the power and acceleration capabilites of each one?