E-brakes

[Lessen]

I've already done the mod but I'm curious as to what you guys think about putting a rear brake (E-brake) on a buggy. Since they are built for offroad racing why not? comments?

 

[vbgagnon]

For a buggy I just don't think they need them. I know when racing I don't see where I would use it, it would just drag through the turn instead of glide through it. Just my .02

 

[Lessen]

cool cool. I just figured since in 1:1 it's faster to drift around a dirt hairpin then drive around it the same would hold true in R/C. Adjusting brake balance just doens't cut it (or maybe I simply havn't fiddled enough). but to really get it goin rally style the front wheels need to direct and pull the car around the corner. Can't do that very well if the brakes are on even slightly. But if you change ballance to excessively you won't have any front brake when you need it.

 

[Plaidfish]

your TT has no rear brakes????
I use em on my buggy for sure....it keeps the rear from sliding out to the side in a straight brake situation..and if I want the kick I turn the wheels andpump the brakes once and it will slide in any direction I want it to....

 

[Revo Rancher]

I am undecided. I see the analogy with the 1:1 cars, but the dynamics are slightly different with the buggies. On the fly adjustable bias would be better.

 

[Lessen]

your TT has no rear brakes????
I use em on my buggy for sure....it keeps the rear from sliding out to the side in a straight brake situation..and if I want the kick I turn the wheels andpump the brakes once and it will slide in any direction I want it to....

of course my TT has rear brakes silly.

I'm not sayin get rid of the front brakes... I'm talking about ADDING a "rear brake", otherwise known as an E-brake or emergency brake. you know, the one between the seats that you pull up I'm so aggravated, I was gonna see how it works today but it's all rainy and nasty out. I really need to take it to a track to see what it can really offer. the only downside to the mod is weight gain. Regular brakes still work the same.

 

[Ryan with savage]

Whats an E Brake??

 

[Lessen]

Whats an E Brake??

ok everybody.... An E-brake is just another term for the PARKING BRAKE. you know, pull brake, hand brake... that rod with the button at the end, the one that keeps your car from rolling when in gear. It brakes the rear wheels only. In (1:1, rally) offroad racing it is used to make the rear end of the car slide out when cornering. normally just a tap or slight hold of this brake while turning will send the car into a slide allowing faster overall corner speeds than the standard style of turning.

 

[Lessen]

c'mon everybody, I wanna hear more opinions. I see there have been a few more 'no' votes but I'm just curious about everyones ideas or reasons. C'mon veterans! bring the knowledge!

 

[savagelover12]

that world probally shave seconds off your lap time but you have get used to it and know have to work them. post some pics of what it looks like i dont get how you did it.

 

[niggle]

ok everybody.... An E-brake is just another term for the PARKING BRAKE. you know, pull brake, hand brake... that rod with the button at the end, the one that keeps your car from rolling when in gear. It brakes the rear wheels only. In (1:1, rally) offroad racing it is used to make the rear end of the car slide out when cornering. normally just a tap or slight hold of this brake while turning will send the car into a slide allowing faster overall corner speeds than the standard style of turning.

Normally the hand brake is only used to loosen the back end for hairpin turns on WRC events. Power sliding throught faster turns is down to the diff setup. (WRC cars have active diffs).

On 1:8 buggies we normally setup a loose back end by running a very light oil in the rear diff compared to the front and centre diffs. The "e-brake" might permit you to negotiate hairpin turns slighty faster than a normal buggy where you would need to be hard on the brakes into the turn to get the back end light enough to flick round.

Don't know about US rules, but European and UK 1:8 rallycross rules forbid the use of a 3rd radio channel to activate addtional controls on the car.

You have my deepest respect and admiration for attempting this and I am very interested in learning about the approach that you took. It would be great if you could post a short description and some pictures of the modifications.

 

[Lessen]

I would post pics but I don't have a digital camera. I'll try to explain as best I can.

I simply used the otherwise unused 3rd channel. I made a new servo tray out of CF. The 3rd servo mounts in the new tray about 5mm directly next to the throttle/brake servo. I simply took some linkage and hooked up that servo to ONLY the rear brake. At the brake end, the e-brake linkage loops around the main rear brake linkage behind the spring (so as that it pulls toward the spring to engage). At the servo end I utilized a pass through type linkage (like throttle linkage) so that the e-brake linkage activates the brake in one direction but slides through the servo horn connector on that end. I run the buggy with a Futaba 3pk radio. on this particular radio there is a button in the middle of the handgrip right where the end of you're middle finger lies. I program that button to engage the e-brake when depressed and disengage when I let go. Obviously, this isn't practical unless you have a radio with a conveniently located button for the 3rd channel. the way it's set up I have the ability to use throttle, steering and e-brake simultaneously. In theory (and with lots of practice) a person should be able to execute a corner faster than traditional driving.

also, as far as I can tell from reading IFMAR rules it's not illegal. unless they consider it a type of traction control. yeah, whatever.

niggle- just saw your post about the 3rd channel thing.. do you have a link to that? I read all through that stuff the other day and didn't see anything, must have missed it. that would suck though.

 

[dougc]

Actually I am going to do the samewith my buggy expect with the front brakes so I could do burn outs lol.

 

[mikeburgin]

Lesson Compair apple to apples, wrc is a little different to buggy racing, your talking a road car that race on gravel, buggies race in crap and get big air, in my exsperience driving a hair pin is quicker than drifting it, drifting a hairpin is unreliable in race conditions, 1 mistake cost time, not to mention its another button that you gotto worry about, if the track is smooth and going to stay that way you may gain some time by doing it, but it is like a 10nth of a sec, 1 mistake cost you 2-10 seconds depending ,

 

[Lessen]

I wasn't really compairing WRC to buggy racing but honestly I don't see how the two are that much different in this scenario. Yeah, there's a huge technological difference but the physics of the turn are still the same. I'm just saying that in the right hands, it could be very useful. It certainly wouldn't suit everybody's driving style. I just feel myself needing something else to get the thing to do what I want. Anyway, it's just an idea. I havn't been able to check it out yet cuz of weather. maybe I'll like it and maybe I won't.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that having a hand brake is better. I AM trying to say that having a hand brake COULD enhance drivability for certain people. As far as mistakes are concerned... well, I guess a mistake is a mistake no matter what style of driving you have. It's still gonna cost time. Would a hand brake mistake cost more time than any other mistake? There's a billion scenarios to answer that. Still comes down to what everybody always says. The car doesn't win races, the driver wins races. I know we agree on that.

 

[Hypedonrc]

There went another No vote, because I don't know about your buggy, but if I want mine to drift a corner, all I have to do is turn the wheel, and hit the gas! LOL!!!!!

 

[mikeburgin]

There went another No vote, because I don't know about your buggy, but if I want mine to drift a corner, all I have to do is turn the wheel, and hit the gas! LOL!!!!!

either that or just tap the brake, and then nail it

 

[Lessen]

When you guys tune you're buggies, do you tune them so that they can do that on purpose? What are the downsides of tuning for that?

 

[mikeburgin]

its a combination of braking and flicking the steering at the right time that does it, i use more forward bias on my mbx5 so i have max braking, so just shows that its not rear end locking first that causes it. more a lack of weight on the rear wheels getting the slide started and then pure power that keeps it there, going back to your example of hand brake in the wrc, they use the hand brake for two reasons, first is to loosen the rear end, second is to maintain steering into the corner, if they use the normall brakes they push through the corner, buggies when setup correctly do not do this as bad, brake before the corner accelerate through it, the shorterr the wheel base of the car the less need for a handbrake, this is why coasting into a corner has its uses, it scrubs off speed but still allows steering

 

[Plaidfish]

Lessen I think you are looking to make your buggy respond the same way it would in the corners as if you put heavier fluid in the rear diff......I like to drift a certain turn at my track but its a really hard corner to drive and set up to hit the doubles after it.....when I mess it up though I can loose 10 seconds sometimes.....or more if I flip it....anyway My thoughts would be to learn how the buggy can break traction using the engines power and your normal brakes.....even w/ low end mills a buggy can still drift on hard packed or dry loose terain......try setting your brake bias like mike said and you'll find you can do everything you're trying to do w/ the E-brake and not have all the weight you're talking about....