Complete and Utter Newbie Advice

[Paul Dean]

Hi,

Excuse my newness and apologies if I'm posting in the wrong place!

I've always had a yearning, from a very young age, to get into RC cars and now that my son is getting to a certain age I think this could be a great hobby for us both to share in.

Therefore I've been doing a lot of research into a good starter model that we can build from scratch and the Condor Nitro Self Build kit seems to be fit for purpose in that for a decent price you get everything you need in one box along with detailed instructions to assist the build. Couple of questions that I can't find an answer to anywhere though.

• I have very little experience of the workings of an engine - would that be a disadvantage when going for a self build?
• Are these kits really likely to be build and go? I'd envisaged that a lot of constant tuning would be required to get the most from an RC? My lack of mechanical knowledge I feel could therefore count against me.
• Can anyone advise any good resources for reading up for newbies to give a good basic all round knowledge? This website has proved useful but I'm looking for a good central resource to provide as much general basic knowledge before I make a purchase
• Oh and one final point - is Nitro a suitable point of entry or should I really be considering an alternate power source?

In addition if anyone has any further advice on the suitability of the kit I've chosen vs alternatives on the market it would be most appreciated. Please bear in mind that I don't want to spend the earth if for some unfortunate reason this doesn't turn out to be a hobby I persist with (although I hope not!) and my mechanical knowledge is basic at best.

Thanks for listening!

Paul

 

[WoodiE]

@Paul Dean, first welcome to RCNitroTalk! Second I don't think you're going to find many members here that is going to suggest you go with a Condor model. If you end up buying one of these models I think you're going to find out quickly why they are so incredibly cheap, because they are cheap. You'll also find that locating parts is going to be harder and you can pretty well count on your Local Hobby Shop (LHS) won't be carrying parts for them either.

If you can tell us what kind of RC you'd like, such as Buggy, Short Course, Monster Truck, Car as well as what kind of running you'll be doing on-road, off-road, racing and/or bashing? I'm sure you'll be able to get plenty of replies that will point you in a much better direction.

 

[Paul Dean]

Thanks for the quick replay @WoodiE. I had a feeling that this model might not be all that recommended by the real enthusiasts!!

Anyhow I'm leaning towards a buggy for two main reasons - first being that my son will be driving it and so it needs to be quite sturdy as I can imagine there will be a bit of crashing plus I'm out in the ccountryside so the majority of nearby available surfaces are grass and muddy fields - not too much flat tarmac on offer!!

 

[WarCraft]

i myself just picked up a revo about a month ago, I've had my woes with it but kinda comes with nitro. it has great ground clearance parts are easy to find and you can upgrade/replace EVERYTHING on it down to the screws. as far as being able to build it, you will jsut learn as you break and replace things. i have had mine for a month and have had it in a pile of just pieces already. its not to hard to take apart/put together just have to remember how it goes together and if you forget they have a exploded view that is very detailed that comes with the truck. it does take soem punishment but at the same time if you land it o its lid just right you can knock it on the head even with the roll bar. the handleing is awesome, this is my first nitro ever and after the break in process only took me a short while to get used to how it handles, did i forget its really forgiving in terms on handling!. the suspension is just crazy on it and has some massive travel not to mention fully adjustable for stiffness. well enough about revo fanboyness but i would definitely take a look at it and the parts support it has, not to mention traxxas customer service pretty good IME, you get x2 free replacement parts if you break something and they are always there is your having a problem to help you troubleshoot through it.

 

[Greywolf74]

Thanks for the quick replay @WoodiE. I had a feeling that this model might not be all that recommended by the real enthusiasts!!

Anyhow I'm leaning towards a buggy for two main reasons - first being that my son will be driving it and so it needs to be quite sturdy as I can imagine there will be a bit of crashing plus I'm out in the ccountryside so the majority of nearby available surfaces are grass and muddy fields - not too much flat tarmac on offer!!

Hello Paul! WoodiE is right on the Condor, I wouldnt suggest it either for the same reasons he mentioned. I know you said you were leaning toward a buggy but you also said you lived in the country and youd mostly be driving on grass and muddy fields. The ground clearance on a buggy isnt all that great. You may want to reconsider your buggy choice and consider a monster truck. One of the sturdiest models you can get out of the box in that category is the Savage made by HPI. If you are really keen on putting the kit together you might even want to consider the Savage X SS in particular as it is a kit you have to put together but comes with more parts that an average "kit". An engine for example. I'm not sure if it comes with servos or a transmitter receiver though. Most kits dont come with electronics or an engine. RTR (or ready to run) comes with everything but is already assembled. Buying your own electronics or even an engine for that matter is not a big deal though if you dont mind spending a little extra up front. Bearing in mind by spending a little extra up front you'll likely get better quality parts than what would come on an RTR though. If you really want a buggy Id suggest a Losi 8-ight 3.0. It comes in either a kit or a RTR version. If thats rig is higher than what you were thinking to spend initially then OFNA makes some great buggies in all sorts of price ranges, all the way down to about $300 for a complete RTR buggy. A RTR Monster truck probably is more suitable to your location as I mention before but will cost probably upwards of $450+

I have very little experience of the workings of an engine - would that be a disadvantage when going for a self build?

not really. nitro engines are pretty simple engines, you dont need to know a lot about them to be able to tune one or tear it down and maintenance it. What I did with my first kit was to buy a non working engine off of ebay (I think I got one for about $25 bucks) because i was afraid to tear apart my good engine for the first time. I took the non working one and tore it all the way apart, and put it back together and went through the process of sealing the engine against air leaks just to get a feel for it. All it took was once and I felt completely comfortable taking my good engine apart and sealing it. Tuning takes time to master and it can be very frustrating at times while you're learning it so brace yourself for that. At least it was for me. I'm still not great at it as I'm more of an electric guy but I have and enjoy both types.

I'd envisaged that a lot of constant tuning would be required to get the most from an RC? My lack of mechanical knowledge I feel could therefore count against me.

A nitro engine will usually require some fine tuning each time you take it out but as long as the temp and humidity is about the same you shouldnt need to do much with it. If the temp or humidity is a lot different than the last time you ran it then it may require a little more tuning but once you get it dialed in you usually dont have to mess with it much the rest of that session.

Can anyone advise any good resources for reading up for newbies to give a good basic all round knowledge? This website has proved useful but I'm looking for a good central resource to provide as much general basic knowledge before I make a purchase

It feels very overwhelming sometimes when you first get into the hobby and there is no one stop source for info. Youtube is really good source of info, if its from trusted sources. Forums will probably be your main source of info though. One piece of advice Id give to you when learning anything about RCs is never take one persons opinion as gospel. make sure what you want to do or what you learned is actually the general consensus of the RC community. There is a lot of bad or half right info floating around on the internet. Yes there are some topics that are highly debated but most thing usually have a general consensus.

is Nitro a suitable point of entry or should I really be considering an alternate power source?

Nitro, gas, and electric are all great in their own ways. gas on anything smaller than 1/5 scale is a fairly new development and one i have not personally undertaken yet so I can speak to that but I do own and enjoy both of the two major branches of RC, nitro and electric. Which one you prefer is entirely your preference and no one can tell you which one is better for you. I can tell you than nitro has a lower start up cost as you dont need to buy lipos, lipo chargers, or power supplies for your lipo chargers. that being said, once you invest in the those things you wont have the on going expense of nitro which is mainly fuel, glow plugs, and after run oil (or ARO). Electric has more on demand power and probably higher speeds (not that nitro is slow or lacks torque) but tinkering with an engine can be a lot of fun and you dont get the "realism" factor with electric that you get with nitro either. If you decide to go electric I have a huge video series I did on electrics for beginners in the Video and Picture forum where i try to give electric beginners as much info as I can.

If you have more questions by all means fire away at us, thats what we are here for

 

[rcnut14]

first, welcome to the forum. imo, I think you would want a monster truck. they are the most durable class, and are great for off road. as far as nitro goes, there is a ot of mantinance. ill just warn u about that. nitro has to be somewhat babyed. for instance, you never what dirt to get in the engine. so u must clean the air filter frequently. u have to oil bearing on the truck in general, replace clutch every once in awhile,etc. nitro does take a lot of work, but it is well worth it for me at least. tuning can be hard if you don't know what to look for. I would watch some u-tube videos on how to tune a nitro. they can really help u. if u want a nitro monster truck, I would suggest the hpi savage x ss. it is a very durabile truck, and comes in a kit{ which means u have to build it}. it is not cheap,{ 399$} but Is definitely worth it. have fun.

 

[Greywolf74]

Watching youtube video on how to tune a nitro engine is helpful but you'll also want to print out THIS tuning flow chart which is stickied at the top of this forum and keep it handy while you are out in the field. Buggies are actually by their very nature more durable than monster trucks but monster trucks arent typically fragile dont get me wrong and with the right hop ups can be made very durable indeed.

 

[WoodiE]

@Paul Dean do you have a LHS in your area by chance? A good starting place would be to see what brands they typically carry in stock. More times then not you'll be out bashing with your son and will break something, regardless who makes the RC, and having a shop that has the parts you need right away is a nice thing to have.

I wouldn't necessarily base my entire decision on what they carry but it's not a bad start.

 

[Greywolf74]

@Paul Dean do you have a LHS in your area by chance? A good starting place would be to see what brands they typically carry in stock. More times then not you'll be out bashing with your son and will break something, regardless who makes the RC, and having a shop that has the parts you need right away is a nice thing to have.

I wouldn't necessarily base my entire decision on what they carry but it's not a bad start.

Yes local part support can be a definite bonus at times

 

[Rolex]

Welcome to RCNT.
The BEST thing you did was check in here for advise on what to buy. You would have regretted buying the Condor, and very quickly both you and your son would have been disappointed. As mentioned above, stick with name brand and local support if you can find it.
Nitro isn't as bad as some people think. Once you learn the basics it's effortless to maintain a good tune.

 

[Paul Dean]

Guys - thanks so much for all your feedback @WoodiE @WarCraft @Greywolf74 @rcnut14 @Rolex. I've had a good weekend of reading and digesting your comments and further researching via this site and YouTube. Monster trucks do look like a good option for me but I'm not yet 100% sure if it will be that or a buggy although I'm in no hurry to make the wrong purchase so will continue to ponder.

The Savage X SS seems like a great option - should have mentioned that I'm UK based - but I'm yet to find that particular unit available to purchase anywhere in this country although definitely in the price range I'm looking at plus would only need to purchase the radio transmission as a main item not included in the kit from the looks of it.

I do have a local LHS so I intend to make a visit there soon and ask some questions and find out which main brands they stock/support.

Thanks so much again everyone - if anyone has anything further to add I'll be keeping an eye on this thread!

** EDIT - A UK stockist has confirmed that the Savage X SS has been discontinued in the UK although the RTR version is still available.....!! Any recommendations for an alternate self build monster truck would be most welcome and stockist has confirmed that all HPI parts are available on 48 hour order.

 

[rcnut14]

u could just buy the truck part by part off of ebay

 

[Paul Dean]

@rcnut14 Nice suggestion! Might work out a little expensive though. I'm actually really annoyed that I can't source this kit in the UK anymore. I'm going to visit my local store sometime over the next few weeks for a chat. They don't offer any self build monster truck kits but are stockists of HPI parts. Might have to look at getting a kit imported which is expensive from a postage perspective but my wife does have a friend who's a flight attendant and therefore makes regular trips to the US. She might well be able to help me get a kit over to the UK at nil delivery cost!

 

[Paul Dean]

Er - newbie question alert. I've sourced a potential kit that includes the engine but specifically states "no radio or electronics" included.

What therefore exactly am I required to buy?!? Presuming radio means the control unit itself but what exactly constitutes electronics? Does the control unit come with another part that goes into the car to receive the signal? What about servos? Do they count as electronics that aren't in the kit......?!? Are all radios compatible or do I need to buy a HPI unit?

Confused.......... Help greatly appreciated!!

 

[hamz9561]

Most new radios come with both a transmitter (TX) and receiver ((RX) which fits in the vehicle). As long as the radio transmission type is the same as the RX can understand (AM, FM, PCM, FHSS, DSM, etc.) it should work in any vehicle.

When they say that electronics aren't included they mean that you will need a radio, battery to power it, servos and if it is an electrically powered model the motor and speed controller.

 

[Paul Dean]

@hamz9561 thanks for the swift response.

being a nitro kit I'm therefore presuming I only need to buy radio (and batteries/charger of course) which will include receiver component as well as a servo.

are servos standard issue or would I need to buy a specific one based on the car.....?

apologies for the daft questions!

 

[WoodiE]

@Paul Dean a truck that might be worth looking into, although electric, would be the ECX Ruckus 2WD. You can pick up a full ready to run kit for about $180.

Nice thing is the truck could easily be upgraded later down the road with a more powerful and faster brushless motor and there are a number of other upgrades available. Even RPM RC Products has a number of upgrades to increase it's durability.

Otherwise the Traxxas Nitro Sport or Nitro Stampede would make a good nitro R/C to start off without spending a ton of money.

 

[Greywolf74]

The vast majority of MTs are going to be ready to run. In fact out side of the X SS I can't think of another MT is is not RTR (that I would recommend to someone). However, most people will suggest that even with an RTR that you tear it down before you ever run it and rebuild it that way you do a couple different things. You make sure that everything is tightened properly and you can make sure the screws that need blue locktite have it. You can make sure that all you bearings are functioning as they are supposed to. You can make sure that the diffs and transmission are all lubricated properly. and most people like to tear down their engine and seal it against air leaks. So I guess what I'm trying to say is you can buy an RTR and still build it basically.

Dont try to buy all the parts off of ebay...I did that and it ended up costing me about $100US more than the damn kit would have. I thought i could get it cheaper if I was patient and just waited for teh best deals to come along...lesson learned lol...for that kind of money you could just have one shipped from the US.

Woodie has some good suggestions too with the stadium trucks or the stampede. It might help ease your way in and later on you can upgrade them and then once you have all the tools and accessoris you need for the hobby then you could consider going for a full blown MT. Just depends on your budget. I would suggest the nitro Rustler over the nitro Sport though...Theyre basically the same kit except the Rustler has some better quality parts. Again though it depends on your budget.

 

[Greywolf74]

being a nitro kit I'm therefore presuming I only need to buy radio (and batteries/charger of course) which will include receiver component as well as a servo.

are servos standard issue or would I need to buy a specific one based on the car.....?

apologies for the daft questions!

If its a kit (it would help to know exactly which one because sometimes a kit might include something not normally in a kit) you will most likely need a radio (it will come with the first receiver), 5 cell NiMH 6V receiver battery, and 2 to 3 servos (1 throttle and 1 or 2 steering depending on the kit) as hamz stated.

Your standard servo for a 1/10 or 1/8 scale RC will be approx. 40mm long x 20mm wide x 36-40mm tall. The length and the width may very a couple mm but not much. The height how ever can very probably anywhere from approx 35 to 45mm. The height really doesn't matter as long as the kit that you're putting it into doesn't have a real confined space. The majority of the kits I've seen can accommodate a 45mm tall servo but measure it to make sure before you buy if it looks like there could potentially be an issue. Some kits it obvious that the height doesn't matter. Others not so much. i recommend Savox brand servos if you can get them. For the money their quality is hard to beat.

There are two other factors to take into consideration when buying a servo (for steering...I'll mention throttle servos separately at the bottom of this post). Torque and speed. torque is represented in oz-in here in the US or kg-cm for the non-oddball parts of the world. Speed is the time in a faction of a second for the servo horn to travel 60 degrees. A common servo for a light 2wd 1/10 scale RC might have specs that look something like whats below. This is the specs on a Savox SC-1258TG.

Dimensions(mm): 40.3x20.2x37.2
Weight(g): 52.4
Speed(@4.8V sec/60): .10
Torque(@4.8V oz-in): 133.3
Speed(@6.0V sec/60): .08
Torque(@6.0V oz-in): 166.6
Gear: Titanium & Aluminum
Bearing: 2BB
Case: Aluminum
25 Tooth Spline
Frequency: 250-333hz
Pulse Width Frequency: 1520

Servos will always have their specs listed at 2 different voltages. Normal servos will be a 4.8V and 6V for 4 or 5 cell NiMH battery packs respectively. High Voltage or HV servos will list 6V and 7.4 V. HV servos are designed to be used either with a 6V NiMH pack or a 2 cell LiPo (also see written as 2S LiPo and LiPo stands for lithium polymer) which puts out 7.4V nominal voltage. HV servos are most commonly seen in electrics where the kit itself is already running on a 2S LiPo so you dont have to use a BEC (or Battery Elimination Circuit...a device that takes X volts and steps it down to Y volts...in this example 7.4V down to 6V) however some guys like powering their nitros with 2S LiPos for increased run times. Heres an example of some similar specs from a Hitec servo (Hitec is another highly trusted name brand for servos). This on in particular is from the HS-7985MG and it shows not only the oz-in rating but the kg-cm rating as well.

Motor Type: Coreless
Bearing Type: Dual Ball Bearing
Speed (4.8V/6.0V): 0.16 / 0.13
Torque oz./in. (4.8V/6.0V): 144 / 172
Torque kg./cm. (4.8V/6.0V): 10.4 / 12.4
Size in Inches: 1.57 x 0.78 x 1.45
Size in Millimeters: 39.88 x 19.81 x 36.83
Weight ounces: 2.18
Weight grams: 61.80

Probably the last thing you want to know is "How much torque/speed do I need?" Speed isnt all that important unless you are racing but generally the faster the better. The size of the kit will effect whether or not you think a servo is fast enough. This is gonna be a personal preference more than anything. For torque there is some personal preference that plays into it but the heavier the kit the more torque you will want. The problem is of course the more torque you want the more speed you have to give up. I mean you can find servos that are plenty fast in a given torque range but generally as a servo gains torque it will loose speed. The chart below is a rough idea of about what torque range you should look at for each class of RC. This list is strictly my own personal opinion and others opinions may very but it will give you a place to start. Also remember that a good rule of thumb is that it never hurts to have to much torque as long as you get the speed you are looking for

Ranges are approx...
1/10 scale light 2WD: 133oz-in/9.5kg-cm to 180oz-in/14.5kg-cm
1/10 scale heavy 2WD: 166oz-in/13kg-cm to 220oz-in/15.8kg-cm
1/10 scale light 4WD: 166oz-in/13kg-cm to 220oz-in/15.8kg-cm
1/10 scale heavy 4WD: 180oz-in/14.5kg-cm to 300oz-in/21.6 kg-cm

1/8 scale light 2WD: 166oz-in/13kg-cm to 220oz-in/15.8kg-cm
1/8 scale heavy 2WD: 180oz-in/14.5kg-cm to 280oz-in/20.1 kg-cm
1/8 scale light 4WD: 180oz-in/14.5kg-cm to 300oz-in/21.6 kg-cm
1/8 Scale heavy 4WD 300oz-in/21.6kg-cm to 500+oz-in/36+kg-cm

These are just rough guidelines. The weight of a kit can vary a fair amount in each of these categories and again personal preference will play a part in your future decisions but these are probably good ranges to look at. There are a handful of kits that will not fit into the above categories. On-road and crawlers come to mind. On-road will probably fit into the 1/10 scale light 2WD category regardless of what it is just because on road has less resistance than off road and therefore wont need as much torque. Crawlers will fall into the 1/8 scale heavy 4WD category regardless of what they are because of the demand that rock crawling puts on a servo.

Throttle servos dont need to be very beefy in any rig. Anything in the 60-133oz-in/4.3-9.5kg-cm range is fine. i look for speed more than torque for my throttle servos but again if you arent racing speeds not all that important.

Trusted commonly used servo brand names to look for:
Savox
Hitec
Futaba
JR
Airtronics

One last segment of servo info. Spline count. The spline is the part that has teeth on it that the servo horn attaches to.

Spline count is the number of teeth that the spline has on it. You need to know the spline count for whatever servo you have if you plan on using a servo horn other than the ones that came with the servo. The horn will need to have the same spline count as the servo.

23 splines: KO, Airtronics/Sanwa, JR, ACOMS, Solar, EXI.

24 splines: HiTec, RCD, Apollo (plus some Tower/Hobbico as HiTec makes them)

25 splines: Futaba (newer), Savox, (plus some Tower/Hobbico as Futaba makes them), traxxas 2075 digital waterproof servo, HPI, HobbyKing-BlueBird, some TowerPro [mg995], RC4WD

Additional info on spline counts for Hitec and Futaba.
Futaba Servo Splines
Hitec Servo Splines

Even more servo info
The difference between digital and analog servos.

I hope this gives you some insight into what to look for in a servo.

 

[WarCraft]

i can totally relate to you OP about wanting a self build kit i wanted the same when i was shopping around. what i did with my revo was took it out of the box charged the ez start and rx batt. did my break in and then completely took it apart and then back together just to get to know the truck. the truck being a RTR came with all it needed out of the box. the revo even came with fuel filler bottle and all the tools you need to work on the truck. they are cheap allen wrenches and box wrenches but enough for you to be able to do anything you need to with the truck. it is a bit on the steep side 599.99 US (for me anyway) but it literally comes with everything you need, theres even a long travel suspension included that you can switch to if you desire. you mentioned the savage and when i was doing all of my looking around i also considered the SS and even the RTR kits. the savages come with a "big block" more power and torque, while doing my research i found many bad reviews of the savage engines. yes i also found some of the TRX 3.3 but the savage negative reviews seemed to be way more plentiful. when i was doing my shopping heres what i looked for and researched.

Product support
Customer Service from the manufacturer
Warranty
Parts availability
Engine dependability
Electronics dependability
Ease to work on
Fail safe included?
Performance
Hop up part availability
Price

When i wet to my LHS they had something called a vaterra glamis uno, a electric with brush less battery spektrum radio and even came with a lipo all for liek 250.00. well long story short the owner tried to talk me out of the revo and buy the glamis which would of been about the same as the revo after i got a few 3s lipos a bigger motor faster charger and a battery balance r. well come to find out the glamis is discontinued so over half of my purchase points were not going to be made. I'm sure you wont buy something that costs this much as a impulse buy for your first time, i took about a month or two before i actually bought my revo. and dont be fooled by the people on youtube taking massive hits with their trucks and it just driving away. each wreck and hit is different the smallest tumble can really mess stuff up while the big air awkward landing messes up nothing, its all just circumstantial dont let the youtube videos be a giant area to judge durability. again happy hunting!