Ceramic coating piston, Nitriding crank and rod?

[Racer 1966]

The parts strength isn't biggest problem for running higher nitro. I've seen water cooled marine engines running up to 70% nitro. I've thought about buying some of that fuel and trying it in an old engine and just seeing how fast the engine will toast.

BTW, .002 is 2 thousandths not hundredths. That number would be easily accommodated without any problems.

 

[Theblaze1987]

Yea you are right I am sorry I ment thousanths after typing it out I realized it too. So the additional .002-.003 extra due to the coating would not be enough to throw anything off? Well that would make the process Alot easier if that is the case. Yes I know marine engines run much higher nitro so that is where I am heading with my question I guess. What makes them able to handle such high % of nitro. Do marine engines have lower compression head/pistons?

 

[Racer 1966]

Yes .002-.003 will create fitment problems but well within reason for machining and re-fitting.


Yes,higher nitro requires lower compression and the marine engines also have the big benefit of water cooling.

 

[Theblaze1987]

Yes I noticed the water cooling benefit and have also noticed that is a subject that has been beet to death and won't even go into that topic right now lol. So why do marine engines run so much nitro? Is it possible to just put a marine engine into a truck like say the revo? If you could figure out how to keep it from overhearing, maybe switch the heatsink to a good aftermarket with a fan setup?

---------- Post added at 12:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 AM ----------

If marine engines can run up to 70% nitro is the hp rating much more then a land based engine of the same size?? That's my real question. I would asume so. Can you tell me how much horse power difference there is between two engines of the same size. Say a .21 marine engine with lower compression running higher nitro compared to a .21 land engine with higher compression and lower nitro? See my point is to beefin up the internals of a land based engin so you keep the high compression yet be able to increase the nitro which will be the best outcome for power

 

[Racer 1966]

I can't really answer that one,I never made it that far in my research. Something I've wanted to try but have yet to do. There must be some reason they keep the ground vehicles down to 30%.

 

[Theblaze1987]

Yeah I'm trig to go really far in my research this is the kind of stuff I love. Can you possibly give me a link to an example of a marine engin that can run really high % nitro? I looked around real fast and saw some os marine engines that can run 45,000 rpm putting out 2.75 hp in a .21 but it says that it only requires 30% nitro so I'm looking for a marine engine that says it can take anything from 40+ nitro. Any ideas?

 

[Theblaze1987]

Marine engine air cooled conversion?

So after doing Alot of research and asking Alot of questions I am wondering if it's possible to swap out the head on q marine engine with a good aftermarket air cooled head and fan setup to help with coolig and have the bonus of getting the most horse power out of a engine able to run much higher % nitro due to it being a marine engine and put it in your truck, such as a revo. It looks like marine engines also have the capability of higher rpm's, like 45,000. That would be one fast revo with the proper gearing I would think.

 

[frickenjoey]

I seriously doubt it. if air cooling it was possiable one of of those it would have been done by now I am pretty sure. Fans have been tried but just don't put out the air needed for cooling one of these. Get a big enough fan to do the job and you are now running into a size and weight problem. The highest RPM land based engines are the touring .12 sized but not enough torque to pull around a Revo. Water cooling is just much more efficient than air.

 

[Krawlin]

Manufacturer HP numbers are the biggest scam in nitro. A typical high end .28 engine may be making a legitimate dyno proven 1.6 HP, nothing like what the manufacturer says. So that 45,000 RPM (which at that high of RPM there is no usable power, and in a boat, good luck getting a nitro engine spooled up that high unless its got cavitation issues) is just some bogus number they throw out there, as is that 2.75HP number, don't believe it, don't bother quoting manufacturer HP numbers.

Also, to my knowledge ceramic coatings are not meant to be applied in wear applications like a piston. It will not make it any stronger, and being a coating, it will be very difficult to have it applied 100% evenly, which in our tiny RC 2 stroke engines, its important that the piston/sleeve have as even of a surface as possible in relation to each other.

Quite a few engines out there have TiNi coated cranks, this is old news, nothing new. But it really only helps at the crank pin for wear resistance, other than that there is no point to it really, if it's done to promote smoother flow of fuel/air through the crank, the same thing can be achieve via polishing.


You can run 40% nitro on a Picco .28, you just have to shim the head accordingly. And honestly, WTF are you doing that requires 40% nitro with a .28? If this is for a drag racing application you are going to be much better off with a high end .21 onroad race engine meant for high RPM and running 30%.

Just like HP, newbies think nitro content is the magic number and they think the more the better, which just simply is not the case.


To me this just seems like a stupid idea to want to have custom coated/plated stuff in an engine, there are more than enough engines out there that will fit your application, cost you less vs. a cheaper engine and getting parts coated with w/e it is you want, be more reliable, less headache with tuning, run better overall, etc. etc., and will do all of that much better than any engine with a "ceramic coated piston" and "ceramic coated exhaust header" and "70% nitro". You have to remember that there is a very big (obviously) difference between what works in the 1:1 world and what works in the RC world.

 

[Theblaze1987]

Manufacturer HP numbers are the biggest scam in nitro. A typical high end .28 engine may be making a legitimate dyno proven 1.6 HP, nothing like what the manufacturer says. So that 45,000 RPM (which at that high of RPM there is no usable power, and in a boat, good luck getting a nitro engine spooled up that high unless its got cavitation issues) is just some bogus number they throw out there, as is that 2.75HP number, don't believe it, don't bother quoting manufacturer HP numbers.

Also, to my knowledge ceramic coatings are not meant to be applied in wear applications like a piston. It will not make it any stronger, and being a coating, it will be very difficult to have it applied 100% evenly, which in our tiny RC 2 stroke engines, its important that the piston/sleeve have as even of a surface as possible in relation to each other.

Quite a few engines out there have TiNi coated cranks, this is old news,
nothing new. But it really only helps at the crank pin for wear resistance, other than that there is no point to it really, if it's done to promote smoother flow of fuel/air through the crank, the same thing can be achieve via polishing.


You can run 40% nitro on a Picco .28, you just have to shim the head accordingly. And honestly, WTF are you doing that requires 40% nitro with a .28? If this is for a drag racing application you are going to be much better off with a high end .21 onroad race engine meant for high RPM and running 30%.

Just like HP, newbies think nitro content is the magic number and they think the more the better, which just simply is not the case.


To me this just seems like a stupid idea to want to have custom coated/plated stuff in an engine, there are more than enough engines out there that will fit your application, cost you less vs. a cheaper engine and getting parts coated with w/e it is you want, be more reliable, less headache with tuning, run better overall, etc. etc., and will do all of that much better than any engine with a "ceramic coated piston" and "ceramic coated exhaust header" and "70% nitro". You have to remember that there is a very big (obviously) difference between what works in the 1:1 world and what works in the RC world.

Here is a link to the type of coatig I was refuring to http://www.swaintech.com/store.asp?pid=10315

 

[frickenjoey]

Ok I looked at the link....here is the main point missed. Those are all ringed 2 stroke stuff they are talking about. They do not have NEAR as close tolerance as a nitro RC engine. It it's just a TINY bit off you can kiss that engine goodbye. I just don't see it working or being worth it. Now they could coat the inside of the case for better airflow maybe...I know OS did it on some high end race mill with expoxy. But what every you wanna try and your pocket can afford!

 

[Theblaze1987]

Yeah that's a good point and a good idea about coating the inside. I'm not saying it would work, or even be worn it. That's why I am throwing the idea around here on the forum lol that's what it is for. I also wanted to do some thermal displacement coating to the head and head and possibly the pipe. Well I'm waiting the hear back from a couple of companies that I emailed about the subject. While I'm at it I might just send out some parts to be cromed. And I see ercm does powder coating custome colors. I'm thinking a monster green and black engine block.

---------- Post added at 6:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 6:49 AM ----------

http://www.fireballcoatings.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7&Itemid=14

 

[HPIguy]

You'd be better served by taking that money, and sending your engine to Robin at Extreme Mods.

 

[Theblaze1987]

Yeah I planned on doing that too

 

[Rolex]

Threads merged since they all deal with modding engines.

 

[frickenjoey]

Has anyone thought of running their engine on nacho cheese? I mean it is kinda close to bio diesel. Would I need to add extra lube? What nitro content would I use?

 

[Rolex]

No nitro needed if you use a marine engine with a heli cooling head and a shock absorbing rubber piston. Whirled peas in the cheese will provide the proper lubrication.

 

[frickenjoey]

Peas?....how convenient I have a whole can of peas...a whole case of peas...it is just knock knock who's there...peas

---------- Post added at 6:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 6:10 AM ----------

No nitro needed if you use a marine engine with a heli cooling head and a shock absorbing rubber piston. Whirled peas in the cheese will provide the proper lubrication.

Can I make that piston out of wood?

 

[moe7404]

no no no you need an adjustable diameter piston, to get the fit right LOL LOL LOL

 

[Rolex]

Peas WHO?
You can't peas everybody.

You start to peas me off, mon.