A Great Idea that will never be......

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Nitroaddict

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This is a column about the war of ideas -- but first a word about gasoline prices and Hummers.

In case you missed it, OPEC just decided to slash its oil production to keep gasoline prices high. I guess it would be foolhardy to expect that maybe Saudi Arabia or Kuwait would use its influence in OPEC to hold down prices at a time when Western economies are struggling to climb out of recession. Everybody's just looking out for themselves. So why don't we?

There's all sorts of talk now about how to finance the $87 billion price tag for the reconstruction of Iraq. I say, let's make OPEC pay -- indirectly. Let's have a $1 a gallon gasoline tax and call it the "Patriot Tax." We could use the revenue it would raise -- about $110 billion a year -- to finance the entire reconstruction of Iraq, with plenty left for other good works.

Here's the logic: The two things OPEC hates most are falling oil prices and gasoline taxes -- and the Patriot Tax would promote both. The reason that OPEC hates gasoline taxes is that if anyone is going to benefit from higher prices at the pump, OPEC wants it to be OPEC, not the consuming countries. It drives OPEC crazy that the Europeans pay roughly twice as much per gallon as Americans do, because their governments slap on so many taxes.

A $1 a gallon gasoline tax, phased in, would not only be a huge revenue generator (even with tax rebates to ease the burden on low-income people, farmers and truckers) but also a huge driver of conservation and reduced oil imports. Not only would it mean less money for Saudi Arabia to transfer to Wahhabi clerics to spread their intolerant brand of Islam around the world, but it would radically improve America's standing in Europe, where we are resented for being the world's energy hog.

President Bush could even say that this tax is his long-promised alternative to Kyoto, because the amount of energy conservation it would produce would result in a much greater reduction in U.S. energy consumption, and greenhouse gas emissions, than anything Kyoto would have mandated.

In short, a tax that finances the democratization of Iraq, takes money away from those who would use it to spread ideas harmful to us, weakens OPEC, makes us more energy independent, reduces the deficit and overnight improves the world's view of us -- from selfish, Hummer-driving louts to good global citizens -- would be the real patriot act. (It would also encourage Iraq not to become another oil-dependent state, but to build a middle class by learning to tap its people's entrepreneurship and creativity, not just its oil wells.)

"Until we raise energy prices we really aren't fighting the war on terrorism, because we're doing nothing to deny the countries who fund terrorists the cash they need to destroy us," says Philip K. Verleger Jr., the energy expert. "We could use the excess revenues to fund a true Manhattan Project to cut U.S. oil consumption in half by 2007, thereby permanently making OPEC irrelevant. That would be a truly patriotic move."

Yes, yes -- I know, the Bush team would never even consider such a tax. But that's my point. When you have an administration that will not even consider undertaking the most obviously right course -- a gasoline tax -- that would produce so many strategic, economic and political benefits for America, then how do we win this war in the long run? Because this war on terrorism is not simply a military fight. That's the easy part. More important, it is a war of ideas. And to win a war of ideas we need to do two things:

First, we need to successfully partner with Iraqis to create a free, open and progressive model in the heart of the Arab-Muslim world to promote the ideas of tolerance, pluralism and democratization. But second, and just as important, we need to set an example ourselves, in order to get others -- both potential allies and longtime adversaries -- to buy into our war, to believe that we are not just out to benefit ourselves or protect ourselves, but that we really are out to repair the world.

Unfortunately, this president -- for ideological reasons, because of whom he is beholden to economically, and because he knows that the American people never demanded this war, so he cannot demand much from them -- will not summon Americans to set that example. He will not summon us to be the best global citizens we can be. The Bush war cry is: "Do as we say, not as we do. Good ideas for Iraqis, gluttony for Americans."

That is so wrong. We may not get a better Iraq out of this war, but let's at least make sure we get a better America.
 
I wouldn't mind paying more for gasoline, just to keep the drivers off the road, who drive to the bakery around the corner because they are too lazy to walk or ride a bike.
But.. i'm against raising a tax, just so we can pay off a war nobody in this world asked for. Not even half of the american population or probably even more had asked for it. Because after Iraq would be repaired and build back up (if this is even possible considering the current situation in Iraq), the gasoline tax would stay and the money would probably flow into military spending. Resultung in more military power, which makes it easier to just attack and invade another country and have another 100 billion dollar bill floating our way because we just don't learn from history. But since our gasoline tax is now all dedicated to military spending, we need to raise taxes again to foot the 100 billion dollar bill to rebuild the next country and so on and so on and so on.

So i'm against it, but for it for different reasons.

Thomas
 
Now I'm sure you've lost it
 
what do u mean, stretch?
 
$1 a gallon? come on na i'm already paying out as much in a month in taxes than i used to make in a year! besides i like hummers. there's already too much fat in the pork barrel as it stands. have you taken a look at our placement in iraq and afgahnistan in relation to syria and iran? hell, we can push one of them into the ocean and squish the other one like a jelly sandwich. it kind of makes me feel warm and cozy.....
 
stretch - we have the cheapest gas of any other industrialized nation in the world. in europe, it averages 4.00 a gallon. i would pay more to get rid of some of the SUVs in this country
 
come on na, you know i'm just messing with you! you're the only one with enough balls to post this sh#t even when a lot of people do not agree.

i hate increased taxes.

you have cement in your shorts and:

i still like hummers...:LoL:
 
i hate taxes too, however i will be the first to vote for one that i think we need. we just voted on a tax increase here in orlando today regarding some road work to help our gridlock. i voted yes. i will gladly pay a lil more to not sit in traffic for an hour every day.
 
LOL.. and to think, I actually campaigned to have the ban lifted on you NA.. I really need to check myself.. :)
 
You know we (the USA) get royally SCREWED out of all the higher performance cars that the world has to offer because their emissions aren't up to par. BUT then the government allows all these big-ass SUV's to run around the steet with worse gas milage and worse emissions. It's all about being American made. If you buy American it's like having a free pass to pollute the world more.
I'm moving to Caleefawneeahh, maybe Arnold will let me import my Skyline GT-R.
 
Actually its not about the pollution that keeps out the high performance imports, its the fact they can reach speeds of close to 200mph. So where would you drive a 200mph car in America? I-80? Dont think so.
And in fact, if your so much of a anti-SUV person, you should move to cali, and buy a civic because thats all anyone drives over there, do to emission standards and such. As for the rest of us, ill keep driving my 69 olds that gets 7mpg until I die. And ill keep driving my Bronco that gets 24mpg, oh wait, thats an suv! I thought all SUVs get the worse gas millage. Guess not.........
 
I forgot where I read it (i think it was in Car & Driver) but economy cars give people false hopes because of mpg. What they said is that the higher MPG is great but it encourages more and more people to drive more causing more polution. I see the logic in that.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a pro active SUV owner, in the same sense as other drivers of the Urban Tanks called SUV's. I'm not an anti SUV person either. What I am is an SUV owner (99 Tahoe Limited) that uses the size of the truck to my advantage.

I don't drive it everyday. I use it 90% of the time for long distance driving (150 miles or more roundtrip) and with 5 passengers including myself or to lug around a lot of stuff. SUV's are great for the luggage factor and passenger capacity. It's the modern day, full size stationwagon of the 80's.

I also have a full size sedan (96 Impala SS) which mostly stays in the garage due to collectability, but it also only see's long distance driving of at least 150 miles roundtrip. And a 1972 Pontiac LeMans that only see's sunlight in the summer.

But my daily town basher is an 83 Celica GT. Mainly because NYC makes it hard to find parking for the larger behemoths.

What I am trying to say is, use your car/suv for the right purpose. It kills me to see a woman driving the suburban locally everyday to do daily erands with no kids in her truck. AND TALKING ON THE CELL PHONE! AAAACCK!

So in a nutshell, higher gas prices suck but so do people who don't use their cars for anything other than a suburb status symbol.

BTW, My 72 LeMans had better emission results than my 83 Celica. Surprising!
 
So you think raising the price of gasoline a dollar is going to cause a conservation movement in America? That kind of cracks me up. Let's look at ideas that have been tried and failed...

First, mass transit. Most areas that have mass transit systems do have a lot of people who use them. BUT do they have any less traffic on their roads or highways? I don't think so.

Next, HOV...This one has to win a Darwin Award all by itself. Let's see if we can create a carpool phenomena by restricting one or two lanes to vehicles that carry more than one person. Has it succeeded? I see a few people sharing their rides, but traffic is even worse as the stubborn American refuses to share his ride and has fewer lanes to travel on. End result more congestion, more pollution, and more accidents leading to increased prices on just about everything...

And now...you suggest a dollar increase in fuel. Yes, we have cheaper fuel prices than just about everywhere in the world, but I can remember when gas cost like 80 cents a gallon. Now about ten years later the price is almost double that. Have we seen a decrease in auto sales? Is there a major outcry for decreasing traffic? I say no to the one and maybe to the other, but in the end we still see our roads and highways heavily trafficked and constantly increasing in volume. Heck, how many one car families exist in America? Not too many if I judge based on my middle-class neighborhood (most have three cars in their driveway or garages).

The bottom line is that the consumers want transportation at whatever cost to the environment or their pocketbooks. If you want to change the oil/gasoline world, you need to convince automakers to seek alternate fuel sources and make them a reality for the consumer. We will pay the two dollar gas price, heck we'd even fill our gas guzzling Hummers with 5 dollars a gallon if that was the cost, but we'd still drive our pollution making machines. You want to make an environmental impact...talk to the guys who make these gas guzzling beasts. Get them to explore natural gas solutions (they exist). Get them to explore and make solar powered vehicles more than a science project. Get them to find a way to make the cars last longer than the loan that pays for them.

We may be to blame with our wants and desires, but I assure you that if the only means of transportation was pedal power, solar power, natural gas power, electric power...or whatever your flavor be...We'd be using and abusing it just the same.
 
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The bottom line is that the consumers want transportation at whatever cost to the environment or their pocketbooks.

Unfortunately, we live in a mobile society. No matter what the cost, the automobile will be the root of status instead of necessity.

Get them to find a way to make the cars last longer than the loan that pays for them.

My cars last and just never die. My 72 LeMans is already over 30 years. What made it last that long? Just taking care of it and not abusing it. Of course it was restored and repainted, but the engine was always taken care of. It also had a complete overhaul a few years ago only because it was getting old and losing compression. BUT it was still passing emissions.

Getting a car to last longer isn't a problem. All it needs is TLC. It's the consumers attitude that needs fixing. My best friend for example.

He buys a car almost every 5 years, why? He wants the new model and sees his car as a utility. The car is an investment, your life depends on it ... right?

We live in such a "disposable" society. Use it till it breaks then throw it away, don't bother to fix, just replace.And that's not just cars.

Just a little side note: My 72 was my fathers first car, bought brand new. I'm not that old ... yet.Just 2 years older than the 72 (do the math :ha: )
 
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Two very good points. I am of a like mind on both. BUT I would still like to see a few more cars that do not cost in maintenance nearly as much as the purchase price over time.

I have a '92 Ford Probe with nearly 140,000 miles on it. Aside from needing a new paint job and a new air conditioner, it gets me where I need to go in relatively decent comfort and speed. Granted it is not a 72, but it is my first car bought brand new in '92. This car has been the model of what I desire and I have spent very little money to keep it this way (new tires when needed, regular tune-ups, and other scheduled maintenance as required).

On the other hand, I purchased a '99 Grand Cherokee to carry my growing family around in. This thing has been a money pit since the word go. The problem is that I am so upside down on it, I couldn't get a decent trade for it if I tried. I have given this SUV the same care that my Ford gets; however, since I purchased it and the warranty expired, I have had to pay for new brakes twice which lead to repacking of both axles(apparently the brakes going was a symptom of the axle problem), new tranny speed sensors, numerous other minor and not-so-minor maladies. If I had to do this one over again, I'd be driving a mini-van and happy to be doing so.

So why is it that older cars seem to fair better than newer ones? I'd ask the auto-makers that question...
 
Originally posted by SkyMaxx

but I can remember when gas cost like 80 cents a gallon. Now about ten years later the price is almost double that. Have we seen a decrease in auto sales? Is there a major outcry for decreasing traffic? I say no to the one and maybe to the other, but in the end we still see our roads and highways heavily trafficked and constantly increasing in volume. .

adjusted for inflation, Sky, gas is actually cheaper now than it has ever been in the history of the USA.

In 1924, the avg price of gas was .18 - which is equivelant to 3.22 today.

In 1954, the avg price was .29 - 2.97 today
 
Originally posted by SkyMaxx

I have a '92 Ford Probe with nearly 140,000 miles on it. Aside from needing a new paint job and a new air conditioner, it gets me where I need to go in relatively decent comfort and speed. Granted it is not a 72, but it is my first car bought brand new in '92. This car has been the model of what I desire and I have spent very little money to keep it this way (new tires when needed, regular tune-ups, and other scheduled maintenance as required).

I have a 96 Ford Probe with 87000 miles, also purchased new. You probably heard of http://www.probetalk.com i guess? :)
If not... stop by.. tons of info for Probe drivers.

Thomas
 
Originally posted by SkyMaxx
So why is it that older cars seem to fair better than newer ones? I'd ask the auto-makers that question...

It is all about the almighty $$$. I think back then the people on the line and the auto-makers felt a sense of pride going into each car. Back then more emphasis was placed on quality and then quantity. Now if they don't meet a monthly quota the auto-makers get all bent out of shape. Maybe it might have something to do with automating the process of building a car now vs. doing it by hand back then. Maybe quality control has gone down.
 
NA...my point was not a complaint about gas prices. I have been overseas and had to pay for gas. My point was that increased gas prices have not in any way, shape, or form led to a decrease in auto sales or traffic.

Scummer...haven't seen that site before. Thanks for the info.

mcvickj...now we are on the same page. Looks to me like the automakers need to figure this one out and fix it.
 
first - sky, this was just a simple theory that would never work. mainly just a idealistic idea.

second - u missed my point. u say
My point was that increased gas prices have not in any way, shape, or form led to a decrease in auto sales or traffic
- and what i am trying to say is that there has NOT been an increase in gas prices here. Gas prices are cheaper now than ever in US history, when aadjusted for inflation. If u look at places where gas IS higher, such as Britian - u will see that most people drive ecomony cars, and use the carpool. it does work.
 

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