why

[jon2]

UUUUUHHHHH I beleive that's exactly what I said there Junior.....my point was that who's going to take it on themeselves to stop it???? Both sides should but if neither ever makes the decision to do t then this incident in Minnesota can be the outcome of someone in your school God forbid......and Jon I am a parent and I do teach my daughter what's right and wrong....I've been very blessed w/ a very well behaved little girl....I have only spanked her twice in her life and it was for running in the street between parked cars when she was 3.....I spend every night talking to her about what she did that day and how she felt about whatever.....I think that is where a lot of parents go wrong...they don't just talk to the kids.....I know every one of my daughters friends by name and most of her classmates too.....I speak w/ her teacher about 1 month.....and I ride my long board while she rides her scooter around the neighborhood.....I beleive if I play w/ her then she'll want to communicate the things that are important......

Glad to hear it Plaidfish. I do the same with my 4year old. H e is a handful as he is getting MORE and MORE daring as time passes. I spank him when I see that it has taken far too many times in verbal warnings or when he speaks rudely. He seems to take well to talking and my wife and I talk to him about his daily happenings. I can't wait for our next child. Whenever we are blessed again I know my boy will be a great big brother!

 

[rocknbil]

.... Who is to blame? Parents mostly. ...

But you have to realize: parents are nothing more than kids brought up in the same society and taught all the wrong things too. Although we can legally and morally "blame" parents for the problems with youths today, it won't fix the problem.

Until we re-establish true consequences for our actions - consequences that can change your life - it's just going to get worse. But how can we do that when we can't even slap our kids's hands? It's sick!

 

[jon2]

But you have to realize: parents are nothing more than kids brought up in the same society and taught all the wrong things too. Although we can legally and morally "blame" parents for the problems with youths today, it won't fix the problem.

Good point but the beauty of the individual is the free will given to us. We aren't locked up to be the same as our parents were. We can learn from their mistakes and improve it in our own lives.

Until we re-establish true consequences for our actions - consequences that can change your life - it's just going to get worse. But how can we do that when we can't even slap our kids's hands? It's sick!

Says who? I don't know about you but I WILL spank my son if need be but that is the utmost last resort. Why would you be afraid? Do you beat your child? Not saying you do but that is addressed to those afraid to. I am not afraid to.Your love for your child is what should remind you to control your anger.

 

[Ryhton]

Says who? I don't know about you but I WILL spank my son if need be but that is the utmost last resort. Why would you be afraid? Do you beat your child? Not saying you do but that is addressed to those afraid to. I am not afraid to.Your love for your child is what should remind you to control your anger.

Jon2, I think before you blast people for not spanking or hitting their children you check up on some state laws. The fact is in Washington State for instance the domestic violence laws are so strict that you are not allowed any physical contact at all. I had all kinds of problems with my stepson and eventually had to kick him out, he didn’t want to go so I tossed him out the door. He ran down the road and called the cops, want to guess were I spent the weekend. Every state is a little different but the fact is that if a kid wants to hit himself and call the cops and say you did it, and then you are screwed. As parents we have less and less control over how we deal with them. Not to dump on you Jon2, but it isn’t as black and white as you would think

 

[Tarant]

No I agree,a Lot of this is because of Parents
If they the parents are dumb,stupid and have all these problems the they shouldnt have children. When you have a child it is your duty to raise that child in a careing enviroment, it is your duty to teach that child the things necessary get through life,
and to get through life you have to get along with people.\


No Offense Ryhton he was you stepson, But parents need to raise and teach them not to behave like that in the first place so thes problems wont happen later in life.I have witnessed things like A mother and father have a young boy ho likes to run around a hits eople not hard just a little hit well the parents thought it was cute and did nothing about it and as he got older he would still hit people now he is in juvy for assault. IMO if the parents would teach them how to behave when they are things like this would happen a lot less

 

[Ryhton]

No I agree,a Lot of this is because of Parents
If they the parents are dumb,stupid and have all these problems the they shouldnt have children. When you have a child it is your duty to raise that child in a careing enviroment, it is your duty to teach that child the things necessary get through life,
and to get through life you have to get along with people.

How old are you???????? It is not that simple.... Have you had to deal with a child that lies to you at every turn. Have you had to deal with a child that will do nothing in school because he knows the school system will push him thru any way. He was not raised that way. So mister wisdom explain how you are to deal with this, do you ground them take things away from them?????? And if they just look at you and say F U, then what do you do. The law has tied parents hands so there is not much you can do.

 

[Tarant]

Children arent born to Hate,lie,steal,
they learn these things. and at young ages before they hit the school system it is the parents how are the teachers. Every father and mother has a child that will mimic them is some way and it that parents is a drunk od abusive they will learn that to.
We have all heard of the person how at a young age would hit their siblings,hurt or kill animals and 30 years later they are the most hunted rapist,murderer in america.
These boy how shot up his school didnt just wakeup one morning and Say Gee I think I will go out and Kill a bunch of people to day.
And I am 16 and yes I have had to deal with the kids that will lie but before you judge me I have also had to deal with kids that come from alcholic,abusive,single parent homes, I have also dealt with children who have Mentle and phisical handycaps.

 

[jon2]

Jon2, I think before you blast people for not spanking or hitting their children you check up on some state laws. The fact is in Washington State for instance the domestic violence laws are so strict that you are not allowed any physical contact at all. I had all kinds of problems with my stepson and eventually had to kick him out, he didn’t want to go so I tossed him out the door. He ran down the road and called the cops, want to guess were I spent the weekend. Every state is a little different but the fact is that if a kid wants to hit himself and call the cops and say you did it, and then you are screwed. As parents we have less and less control over how we deal with them. Not to dump on you Jon2, but it isn’t as black and white as you would think

Now offense taken Rhyton I will correct my post as in the state of California it is not that tight. It has become so ridiculously blown out of proportion that kids say this and it isn't true just be right. Just like the kid who cried wolf. Eventually they will face the truth or it will happen to them.

 

[Ryhton]

Children arent born to Hate,lie,steal,
they learn these things. and at young ages before they hit the school system it is the parents how are the teachers. Every father and mother has a child that will mimic them is some way and it that parents is a drunk od abusive they will learn that to.
We have all heard of the person how at a young age would hit their siblings,hurt or kill animals and 30 years later they are the most hunted rapist,murderer in america.
These boy how shot up his school didnt just wakeup one morning and Say Gee I think I will go out and Kill a bunch of people to day.
And I am 16 and yes I have had to deal with the kids that will lie but before you judge me I have also had to deal with kids that come from alcholic,abusive,single parent homes, I have also dealt with children who have Mentle and phisical handycaps.

What are you 16... Are you trying to say I lie and steal????????????????????
You must be thats what I am getting from it. When you have been a parent then feel free to give an opinion, you have no idea what is involved in being one. You have never had to give up things so your children could have better. You have never had to bust your butt 12 to 14 hours a day to keep food on the table. Kids learn alot of there habits in the school system, and this has the ability to undermind all that you have tought them. Peer pressure is hard to fight.

 

[Ryhton]

Now offense taken Rhyton I will correct my post as in the state of California it is not that tight. It has become so ridiculously blown out of proportion that kids say this and it isn't true just be right. Just like the kid who cried wolf. Eventually they will face the truth or it will happen to them.

Cool Jon2

 

[Plaidfish]

Rhyton I think he was saying it wasn't your fault it was the fact his parents when he was younger would let him get away w/ more than most....at least that's how I read it.....and Rhyton I feel for you man....rasing a step child is 10 times harder, especially if you came into their lives past a certain point...say 10ish.....they have great resentment for you for replacing their natural parents...even though you have the best intentions that is just how the child mind works......I was raised by both step mother and step father at different times.....I hated both of them fro different reasons....now I get along w/ my step father but not the "other one"......the only thing I can say is ( I guess it's probably past this point now) remember they had life a certain way before and you are upsetting their life as much as they are yours......and I'm not trying to say you did anything wrong...I understand it is ususally the children doing rebellious things........it's just a hard situation man no matter how you look at it.....and based on what your state laws are it's even harder for you.....how old is he now and how old when you came into his life? and how is that monster beetle doing? I'm jealous..

 

[Ryhton]

Plaidfish, I hear what you are saying. He was 5 and his sister was 1 1/2. He just turned 16 yesterday and his sister turns 13 in a couple of months. Its not that he is this evel kid from hell or anything like that. He will not make the attempt to apply himself in school. He is bringing home failing grades in most of his subjects (he is smart enough to do better). You ask him if all his work is caught up and he says yes, then you find out from the school that he hasn't turned anything in for months. So what do you do? I grounded him just to find out he is sneeking out to hang with his buddies. As teens they feel they know it all yet have never lived. We as parents try to teach then from what we have done, but they don't want to listen. I allways tell the boy that a smart man learns from his mistakes, but a very smart man learns from others mistakes. But he seems to want to make his own. Parenting is a tough job, and when things go wrong every one wants to blame the parents. I know familys that have multiple children and most are good but one turns out bad, is that bad parenting or is that because one kid says screw it I will do as I please? We can't just lump all parents in to one big group and point and say its your fault. I have a problem with people that have not been parents passing judgment.

 

[rocknbil]

Says who? I don't know about you but I WILL spank my son if need be but that is the utmost last resort. Why would you be afraid? Do you beat your child? Not saying you do but that is addressed to those afraid to. I am not afraid to.Your love for your child is what should remind you to control your anger.

Oh I've administered a whack or two. But I could have just as easily gone to jail for it. So the decision to be made is will I be a better parent sitting in some county jail for an untold period of time or finding another way to deal with the situation. You can go on and on about nosy neighbors keeping out of your biz, but it cuts no mustard pleading your case in front of a judge. This is what I mean, the government, in an effort to protect our children, have removed many of the means by which we can keep them straight.

 

[jon2]

Oh I've administered a whack or two. But I could have just as easily gone to jail for it. So the decision to be made is will I be a better parent sitting in some county jail for an untold period of time or finding another way to deal with the situation. You can go on and on about nosy neighbors keeping out of your biz, but it cuts no mustard pleading your case in front of a judge. This is what I mean, the government, in an effort to protect our children, have removed many of the means by which we can keep them straight.

AGREED! How can we parent our children now when so many people get so nosy and want to be a hero for someone but ruin it for many parents?

 

[.21Rc10GT]

Spank your kids in your basement where no one can hear you!

 

[rocknbil]

Yeaaaahhh . . . then five years later a pissed-off teenager gets an F, knows you're going to punish her, so to get out of it whines to someone at school that she/he's been abused, it winds up in court and you're branded as a child-beating monster . . . . yeah that 'll work.

Just for the record, IMO - there's always a better way. I hit my daughter twice when she was growing up, once when she told an 8-year-old neighbor kid to "f**k off" just because she was pissed at ME (slapped her and took the car keys away) and another time when she did something else really bad. The problem is that either of those instances could been twisted and landed me in jail. It's society and government that has made lazy parents, and now lazy kids without direction. If you kids find your way through this mess - I cheer you all on.

 

[fisherman]

I bet if you actually spent time to get to know some of those "weird" people you would find they are pretty interesting people.....without even realizing it you just ousted a whole group of people w/ a slightly deragatory remark.....and I'll bet they sit on their goth chat rooms saying "man those fishermen are just way too strange.....they read about fuzzy hooks and neon rubber worms"....see how you can see someone else and think they are the weird ones at the same time they are doing the same thing.....HMMMM I wonder why these kids are feeling alone and sad....I was into Punk and skateboarding when it was considered stupid and NOT COOL....O FUCKIN WELL....I liked it and I still do....does that mean I (we) can't accept other people who enjoy different things in life?????? I'm not saying this kid was in any way shape or form justified in his actions.....but I do understand what it's like to be the butt of everybodies jokes and not be accepted into the "in crowd"......I'm lucky enough to have found friends along the way that accepted me for who I am not what I listen to or what I did w/ my time.....next time you see one of those goth freaks remember what your thoughts are as you walk by......try smiling and sayin what's up or just hey as you walk by......

Sorry forget about this thread, i wasn't singling out or hating on gothic ppl or what ever u call want to call them. It probably sounded like i was some prepy persom hatin on them i actually have one or 2 friends who are into the scate boarding and what not. Its just you have to be in the school to understand what i was talkin about, i mean i think today school is different than it was earlier. Idk sorry to sound like i was hatin on them i didnt mean for it to sound like that. really didnt mean to pffend ne one.

 

[fisherman]

NVM, its to hard to explain on here and if i try to explain it ill just be diging my self deeper, i have nothing against scateboarders, thats all, sorry

 

[Plaidfish]

HAHA I didn't take it that way I was just using your wording as an example of how everybody today is...we do things that isolate us into groups w/o even realizing it....when you walk in the hallways at school if you saw a kid w/ green spiked mohawk you would think he was not normal or whatever.....you don't have to be all buddy buddy w/ the guy but take note next time exactly what your first reaction is....what ever it is, is it at all negative? even just thinking "what a retard" you are still putting up a wall mentally that you don't want to have any interaction w/ this person.....that's you rperrogotive.......but what you choose to do w/ that could eventually turn negative.....I guess I'm saying don't let negativity get stored even on the lowest level of your mind....if enough gets collected then things like columbine and Red lake happen.....

 

[4u2nv]

Yeah that was a messed up deal. Man that kid was wayyy messed in the head. He was a avid poster on a bunch of White supremist boards, and Hitler was his Idol. The weird this is the dude was indian.. doesn't make much sence to me, but none of that crap does. Kind freaky considering its the 2nd on in the state in 2 years and the one was about 20 mins from me and the this one is like 2 hrs from me.. A lil to close to home..