Savage x header on savage xl

[sAvageXl]

Hey guys, I need some help as I've just gotten into my dads old savage xl that has been sitting around for years. I was driving it in some tall grass the other day when there was a big bang and it became very loud. I went over and saw that the exhaust had fallen off of it. On closer inspection it seems that the header has melted through where the spring is meant to be attached. Now I've done a whole lot of research and it seems to be that the original savage xl 5.9 header is discontinued, and I was wondering whether anyone has used the standard 4.6 savage header on the xl with no problem, or if it isnt compatible. If it isnt any recommendations for headers would be nice but I know they are coming few and far between nowadays. Cheers.

 

[Greywolf74]

The engine probably got to hot (I'm assuming you were keeping an eye on your engine temps) and caused that part to melt through.

Heres a replacement header for the 5.9

https://www.amazon.com/HPI-Racing-Exhaust-Header-Silver/dp/B0017KHCG2

 

[pug]

Welcome to the forum! You are probably running the engine too lean, or the gearing is too tall for the engine. The tall grass puts extra load on the engine causing it to overheat.

 

[sAvageXl]

Welcome to the forum! You are probably running the engine too lean, or the gearing is too tall for the engine. The tall grass puts extra load on the engine causing it to overheat.

Thanks for the reply, I am actually running it super rich at the moment, nearly at factory break in settings. My dad reckons that has happened over time as the header is 13 years old now, and it used to run too hot due to it used to having that restrictive stock hpi pipe. Thanks for the gaering info though, as I have noticed it isnt shifting reliably at the moment so I might have to look into that.

The engine probably got to hot (I'm assuming you were keeping an eye on your engine temps) and caused that part to melt through.

Heres a replacement header for the 5.9

https://www.amazon.com/HPI-Racing-Exhaust-Header-Silver/dp/B0017KHCG2

thanks for the link, however I am in Australia and amazon says it isnt available.

 

[Greywolf74]

Thanks for the reply, I am actually running it super rich at the moment, nearly at factory break in settings. My dad reckons that has happened over time as the header is 13 years old now, and it used to run too hot due to it used to having that restrictive stock hpi pipe. Thanks for the gaering info though, as I have noticed it isnt shifting reliably at the moment so I might have to look into that.

thanks for the link, however I am in Australia and amazon says it isnt available.

The 4.6 header I'm assuming wont fit but I dont know that for sure.

What temps is the engine running at?

 

[sAvageXl]

The 4.6 header I'm assuming wont fit but I dont know that for sure.

What temps is the engine running at?

The motor is running super rich atm, so it isnt going over 115 degrees celcius, so I know it hasnt broken from running to lean, its just years of constant heat finally melting through the soft metal.

 

[STONER RC]

Welcome to RCT. Something doesn't seem rite bud. How are you getting the temp with a Temp gun? I've had the same exhaust for 15 20yrs and has never melted off due to heat. Running at what your saying 115° c is a base line for that emerging. That's around 240 guys run that 5.9 at 250 - 270 all day for yrs never with out a problem. It's not shifting you said. Does it just bog out or it doesn't get going to poop?
It didn't just melt from yrs of heat and soft metal

 

[pug]

Welcome to RCT. Something doesn't seem rite bud. How are you getting the temp with a Temp gun? I've had the same exhaust for 15 20yrs and has never melted off due to heat. Running at what your saying 115° c is a base line for that emerging. That's around 240 guys run that 5.9 at 250 - 270 all day for yrs never with out a problem. It's not shifting you said. Does it just bog out or it doesn't get going to poop?
It didn't just melt from yrs of heat and soft metal

Maybe it’s stuck in second gear.

 

[STONER RC]

Maybe it’s stuck in second gear.

It sounds lean like you said. At
115° c it definitely didn't get over heated to metal off the header.. That temp is that 5.9 just warming up. I've seen and heard the exhaust melt everything around it but not the header.. the spring probably just popped off or broke from age being rusted. Question did you go over the truck before taken it out for a run after all the yrs of sitting around?? I mean did you break it down and redue the shock oil, diffs, tranns , bearings???

 

[sAvageXl]

It sounds lean like you said. At
115° c it definitely didn't get over heated to metal off the header.. That temp is that 5.9 just warming up. I've seen and heard the exhaust melt everything around it but not the header.. the spring probably just popped off or broke from age being rusted. Question did you go over the truck before taken it out for a run after all the yrs of sitting around?? I mean did you break it down and redue the shock oil, diffs, tranns , bearings???

Ok, sorry I have been unclear, let me give you the history of the car so you can try and help some more. My dad purchased it in 2008 when it was brand new. He told me that when it was brand new he had some overheating issues with it. He said this was because he hadnt at the time cut air holes into the body and was running the stock hpi pipe on it. He replaced that stock hpi pipe with some CEN one, I'm unsure which model. He also then cut air flow holes out of the body. He then said it ran fine. Now he was also very certain that he had never run it to lean, he said he had always kept it below the 2.5 turns of the high speed needle hpi recommends. Now during this time he had 2 more kids so reality kicked in and he had to put it away. He reckons the engine has gone through no more than 10 litres of fuel. Now a couple of months ago now I pulled it out after it had been sitting for approx 3 years. I had taken it out in 2017, and put all the needles back to factory break in settings, but only used it twice, and then back into storage it went. Anyway, present day and I definitely havent tuned it too lean, I know that for a fact. Sometimes the car will die at full throttle because the low speed is too rich I think, and when it doesn't you can hear it want to shift but it doesn't actually do anything. The high speed needle also wouldnt be turned more than one full rotation from factory break in. I point the temp gun down the heat sink to where the glow plug is to get the temps. Now as for maintenance, I emptied the fuel tank of the tiny bit of fuel that had been left in it, (it hadnt gummed up and clogged the lines or tank.) ANd bought new 25% boost nitro fuel. I also bought a new air filter as the old one was yellow and perished and put that on. However that is about all I did in terms of maintenance. And apart from bogging because it is very rich right now it seemed to be running great until the header melted through, which is why my dad and I both thought it was just old age as it certainely isnt getting up to any kinds of temperature that would make it do that in one tank. Hope that helps
here is what it looks like:

 

[STONER RC]

Ok, sorry I have been unclear, let me give you the history of the car so you can try and help some more. My dad purchased it in 2008 when it was brand new. He told me that when it was brand new he had some overheating issues with it. He said this was because he hadnt at the time cut air holes into the body and was running the stock hpi pipe on it. He replaced that stock hpi pipe with some CEN one, I'm unsure which model. He also then cut air flow holes out of the body. He then said it ran fine. Now he was also very certain that he had never run it to lean, he said he had always kept it below the 2.5 turns of the high speed needle hpi recommends. Now during this time he had 2 more kids so reality kicked in and he had to put it away. He reckons the engine has gone through no more than 10 litres of fuel. Now a couple of months ago now I pulled it out after it had been sitting for approx 3 years. I had taken it out in 2017, and put all the needles back to factory break in settings, but only used it twice, and then back into storage it went. Anyway, present day and I definitely havent tuned it too lean, I know that for a fact. Sometimes the car will die at full throttle because the low speed is too rich I think, and when it doesn't you can hear it want to shift but it doesn't actually do anything. The high speed needle also wouldnt be turned more than one full rotation from factory break in. I point the temp gun down the heat sink to where the glow plug is to get the temps. Now as for maintenance, I emptied the fuel tank of the tiny bit of fuel that had been left in it, (it hadnt gummed up and clogged the lines or tank.) ANd bought new 25% boost nitro fuel. I also bought a new air filter as the old one was yellow and perished and put that on. However that is about all I did in terms of maintenance. And apart from bogging because it is very rich right now it seemed to be running great until the header melted through, which is why my dad and I both thought it was just old age as it certainely isnt getting up to any kinds of temperature that would make it do that in one tank. Hope that helps
here is what it looks like:View attachment 138911

Nice break down of a little of history thanks ok so where is it melted threw?? Are you referring to the seal inside? The spring is missing thats about all that is shown.. but your settings where did you get them from? Sounds like your setting are off. Thats a big block needs lots of fuel.. here are the settings for the hpi line of engines. Also did you check the head seal, carb seal, exhaust seal,?@You could have a air leak.. if one of the seals are cracked or bad..not allowing the engine to run properly.. Forba truck to sit that long you really should have broke it down. And went over every part. Before firing it up again. Did you put new plug in? There's alot of maintenance with a nitro. Was there After Run Oil put in the motor before it sat for yrs? Just can't change the air filter and expect it to run like new bud sorry.. did you take the head off and check the piston and sleeve?? Anyway I can go on and on. Definitely seems lean only 2.5 turns out on a big block.. Here's the factory settings.

 

[sAvageXl]

Nice break down of a little of history thanks ok so where is it melted threw?? Are you referring to the seal inside? The spring is missing thats about all that is shown.. but your settings where did you get them from? Sounds like your setting are off. Thats a big block needs lots of fuel.. here are the settings for the hpi line of engines. Also did you check the head seal, carb seal, exhaust seal,?@You could have a air leak.. if one of the seals are cracked or bad..not allowing the engine to run properly.. Forba truck to sit that long you really should have broke it down. And went over every part. Before firing it up again. Did you put new plug in? There's alot of maintenance with a nitro. Was there After Run Oil put in the motor before it sat for yrs? Just can't change the air filter and expect it to run like new bud sorry.. did you take the head off and check the piston and sleeve?? Anyway I can go on and on. Definitely seems lean only 2.5 turns out on a big block.. Here's the factory settings. View attachment 138933

ok, thanks for that, however I can tell you that when I reset it, I got out the instruction manual that came with it and reset the needles to those exact settings, so I know it isnt running to lean. If you have a look at the picture again have a look at where the spring is meant to attach to the header, and youll see the metal there has melted so it has no where to attach to. The spring isnt rusted as I have checked it. As for checking all of those things you listed, I didnt actually. When the exhaust came off I could check the exhaust seal and that seemed to be fine, but thats the only thing I've checked. I've taken the heat sink off it a few times to look at the piston, but I'm not sure what a good one is meant to look like. The engine still has good compression as I took it out of the car and held it by the flywheel, and it didnt flop down, it could withstand its own weight. If you could tell me what a bad piston looks like that would be nice, as mine looks golden brown. My dad prior to me never used ARO, however said not using it never gave him prblems, and when I started it up after all those years it basically started straight away, so I dont think that is a problem, however nevertheless I use it now. I might take the engine apart today to see if anything is dodgy in there, but thats about all I know on the engine, and can't stress that it definitely isnt running to lean as it bogs down from fuel and blows HEAPS of blue smoke. Also in your previous reply it sounded like you thought I had turned the hsp to 2.5 turns, no It has only been turned max once from factory flush settings.

 

[STONER RC]

Ok bud sorry but I don't know what to say. You know what your doing. So if the engine isn't running hot or lean why the heck did your muffler so call melt. And Been in the hobby since the 80's running nitro since the late 90's. So I must not know what it talking about.. I don't use ARO either but my truck/cars don't sit around for yrs and yrs with out any run time. And as for the spring has nothing to attach to drill another hole for it man surprised you didn't know that.as far as your brown piston that's not supposed to be brown. Supposed to be shinny aluminum not brown. The engine is probably need a new piston and sleeve.. good luck hope you get it running again....

 

[sAvageXl]

Ok bud sorry but I don't know what to say. You know what your doing. So if the engine isn't running hot or lean why the heck did your muffler so call melt. And Been in the hobby since the 80's running nitro since the late 90's. So I must not know what it talking about.. I don't use ARO either but my truck/cars don't sit around for yrs and yrs with out any run time. And as for the spring has nothing to attach to drill another hole for it man surprised you didn't know that.as far as your brown piston that's not supposed to be brown. Supposed to be shinny aluminum not brown. The engine is probably need a new piston and sleeve.. good luck hope you get it running again....

Thanks for the help mate, obviously when my dad said it was overheating back when it was new is probably why it has melted through as I just can't see why it would now. Your guess is as good as mine. And when you say the piston should be shiny does that include the top where all the fuel is igniting, as that is what I'm reffering too, not the entire piston.

 

[alfredwong2003]

You can probably try HSP header setup 81084. Yours look like one of those. Not expensive.