Race Season '09

[Lessen]

Here we goes fellas. This is the good stuff right here boys!

 

[Lessen]

What happend to you guys? I feel like I'm the only person following racing this year?

Ok, so here's the deal. A couple years ago in a discussion of Nascar drivers on this forum I had remarked that I felt that Jimmie Johnson was overated. Well, over the past couple years since then as I've seen him role off a couple/few championships he started to grow on me some and I didn't much mind him anymore. I've now been to 3 Cup races in the past 4 seasons. I went to Darlington in '06 and the Daytona 500 last year. I just went to my first shortrack race at Martinsville. Allow me to sum up experience


Jimmie Johnson is overated.

No press cameras, no commentators, nobody else deciding which shots to show me. I've now seen in person (and you can't get much closer than Row 1, Seat 1) how a "champion" drives, not only with 20 laps to go.. but also with 200 to go, when he's mired in traffic, when his car is better than everybody elses around him. Denny wasn't the only person he moved this weekend, not by a long shot. Even though the shove may not have been intended there were others that absolutely were not accidents.

This sort of brings me to something else that occured to me this weekend. We've all heard the talk of the winner being awarded more for winning. I've heard so man complaints of the winners not getting enough points that I got commentator tears coming from my ears. I'll tell you how I feel about that... as long as Nascar continues to allow "dirty" winning (maybe I should call it a "non-quality pass") then why should the winner get more? In my opinion he sure doesn't deserve it when he get's a win like that. I think Nascar has the winner's point count right where it should be. If they ever decide to award the winner more point vs. 2nd place they need to raise the standards of excellancy.

 

[Candyman]

I think Johnson is a good driver. Not great. But good. I still stand by my contention that if The Chase didn't exist, there's no way he would have won 3 championships. It's getting to be a relatively basic strategy at this point. Work on staying in the top 12 for the whole season. Then just pour it on when the Chase begins. I think if he didn't have the Championships, he'd be in the league of a lot of the regulars. Biffle. Harvick. Kenseth. Martin. Burton. Guys who are a threat, but just fade at the end of the year.

Unfortunately, moving a car out of the way is still standard practice at short track races especially. Kyle Bush is notorious for it. Dale Earnhardt was notorious for it. If you can't pass him clean, just get a nose on his inside quarter and then slip by. It's as old as NASCAR itself. I don't much like it. I think it's cheap. But it's omnipresent. Kyle's nudge last week, and Jimmy's this week won't be the last of the season. Do I think they should be penalized? Tough question. Who will judge who had a good win and who had a dirty win? I still say first one across the line wins. And gets all the points. I like the fact that they have increased the margin for winning. It will motivate people to try to get the #1 spot rather than just "points racing" the whole time.

But all in all, points don't mean diddly right now. Yeah, Jeff's in the lead. But it doesn't matter. He just needs to be 1 point ahead of 13th place 20 races from now.


BTW Josh. I totally missed the Australian Grand Prix yesterday. DAMMIT! But I just looked at the results. Did you see them yet?

 

[grgbulldog]

If we were still in the old points system, Gordon would have not 4, but 6 championships, and no, Jimmie would not have 3 in a row because he would not have one the 2007 championship, Gordon would have. I was really hoping Gordon would have gotten that win, but his car went downhill toward the end.

 

[Lessen]

BTW Josh. I totally missed the Australian Grand Prix yesterday. DAMMIT! But I just looked at the results. Did you see them yet?

We just got back today and I've only watched Fri. practice so far. My wife is "raced out" so I'm gonna wait until she falls asleep to watch any more. I probably won't get to watch both Qual and Race tonight . At least Qualifying though. I LOVE F1 qualifying, it's just as entertaining as the race itself IMO. I'm REALLY glad to see some serious parody in F1 this year. As of Friday practice the big dogs weren't looking as fast as you would expect. This should be a very entertaining season I think. Peter Windsor DID say right at the beginning of Fri practice that USF1 would have 2 American drivers. I had previously heard "at least 1" American driver. He said work on the car will start in a couple months and they are just about ready to move into a facility while they are stil working out the details of the powerplant provider. I'm pretty sure it won't be Mercedes because the FIA already granted Mercedes permission to provide engines for 3 teams instead of the former regulation of 2. They made that exception basically just to keep the newly owned BGP in the running. If I were to guess, I'd put my bet's on a Toyota powerplant. Toyota sells A LOT of cars here in the states and would probably be a much more popular name than say.. Renault or even BMW in terms of fans acceptance. I think we have to be frank when we talk about fan acceptance in the U.S. Americans want to root for American drivers and although it would be awesome to hear a 2.4 liter Chevy it ain't gonna happen if you ask me. The next best thing in terms of acceptance would be Toyota and with Honda out of the mix I'd say BMW may be the #2 but that's a distant 2nd if you ask me. However, that's just my take on it from a fan point of view.

 

[Candyman]

Anything other than a Chevy in the US F1 ride would seem like a sacrilege. I am curious as to how that will shake down. Hopefully someone better than Scott Speed... I wonder if SPEED is going to replay the GP...

 

[SMaxxin]

I'm not a big Jimmie Johnson fan but to say he is not that good is wrong IMO, it takes skill to win race after race like he does. As for the bump and run, every winning driver has done it more than once, it's not really fair to call him dirty unless your ready to call all of them dirty. Besides short track racing would be boring with no contact.

BTW, did anyone notice Deny tap Jeffs bumper several times before he made the pass.

It's getting to be a relatively basic strategy at this point. Work on staying in the top 12 for the whole season. Then just pour it on when the Chase begins.

This is why I don't keep up with it as much as anymore, all the top drivers are trying to coast until the chase starts.

 

[Lessen]

Anything other than a Chevy in the US F1 ride would seem like a sacrilege. I am curious as to how that will shake down. Hopefully someone better than Scott Speed... I wonder if SPEED is going to replay the GP...

Well, considering the financial situation our big three are in there is no way any of them is going to pour money into R&D for an F1 engine in 1 years time. At least I can't imagine they could even if they were willing (allowed even?) to invest. I think any American F1 fan would love to hear a domestically engineered F1 engine in the race but I just don't think it will happen. At any rate I'll say this... being a sport where supporting your country is the standard amongst fans, I will be supporting USF1 whomever the drivers are... even if it would be somebody I'm not necessarily a fan of already or even don't care for that much personally. The USF1 drivers will be representing my country on the grandest stage in worldwide motorsports. Also, IF there will be a GP in N.A. for the 2010 season you can bet I'll be there no matter where it is.

another note... POLE BITCHES! ! !

HA HA! USF1 ain't here yet so until then I'm stickin' with Ross

 

[Lessen]

Omg!

I cannot believe it!

Ok, so aside from the finish that put my jaw on the floor and I've been hoping to see for a couple years now that was a GOOD race. Really close racing, strategy you could actually see as a fan, passing all throughout the grid and the cars are just a handful for those guys. I don't yet have an opinion on KERS but the FIA nailed it with all the crazy regulation changes. That was just a flat out entertaining race no matter who you root for.

If you ain't watchin F1 this season you're simply missing out.

 

[godale03]

Hey Guys,

I am still watching NASCAR... I have just been real busy at work and at home. It is hard to find time to sleep much less log on here to chat. Once school is over for the summer, I should have a bit more time.


As far as Jimmy Johnson being overated... everyone is overated compared to Jr!

Seriously though... I am not a huge fan of the points system.. or the chase. Johnson would have no championships, and Gordon would be one away from tying the record... that is the ony thing I like about the chase is that it has kept Gordon away from Earnhardt in that category.

As far as bumping and grinding... IMO I think they should let them do it more! Tradin paint is part of stock car racing. Especially at the short tracks... kinda what I grew up on. I liked the way the drivers, especially Earnhardt would use the chrome bumper, so to speak. I remember at Bristol... I think it was 97... Earnhardt spun Rusty Wallace and was black flagged for rough driving.... He still won the race! Now those were the days!

 

[Candyman]

I cannot believe it!

Ok, so aside from the finish that put my jaw on the floor and I've been hoping to see for a couple years now that was a GOOD race. Really close racing, strategy you could actually see as a fan, passing all throughout the grid and the cars are just a handful for those guys. I don't yet have an opinion on KERS but the FIA nailed it with all the crazy regulation changes. That was just a flat out entertaining race no matter who you root for.

If you ain't watchin F1 this season you're simply missing out.

I managed to get a copy of the GP on my PC. I've only watched about 10 laps so far. But I can already tell there's a difference. More close racing. And did I see it right? They're using full slicks this year? I assume that's to offset some of the driving losses due to removing the traction controls? Also, the KERS. Not sure if it's really a big deal yet. I suppose you can chalk it up to strategy. IRL has been using push-to-pass. I don't think it really creates that big of an advantage. Especially on a road course. Considering the overall HP of these engines, a transient 80 HP boost might take a bit of room to unwind. And even then, how much more speed will it really give you? So I guess you're really limited in where you can use it most effectively.

All in all it looks like a good start to the season. I think if F1 can get just a touch more parity and more close racing, it may just really push it over the edge in the US and open the market. And that coming at the same time the USF1 team is getting ready to run, we may just revive the USGP. But I'd rather see it somewhere other than Indy...

 

[NCNitro]

He did the same thing to Terry Labonte at Bristol. I still remembers Dales famous line "I didn't mean to wreck him, I just wanted to rattle his cage"

But now with that stupid new car, you got a razor blade up front, it's way to easy to cut someones tire. Nascar has change a lot in just the past few years, and not for the better. The drivers no longer have personalities, unless butthead is cosidered a personality, the cot is a pos, the chase format is a joke, man I really miss the way it was just a few short years ago

 

[Candyman]

Man I miss the old cars. So much slicker than the COT.

 

[Lessen]

And that coming at the same time the USF1 team is getting ready to run, we may just revive the USGP. But I'd rather see it somewhere other than Indy...

Yeah, I'm really hoping for a North American GP in 2010. Even Montreal is a relatively close track for both of us.

Man I miss the old cars. So much slicker than the COT.

I do to. Much much MUCH better looking racecars. I'm a big fan of the safety in the new cars but I really feel they should drive better than they do. I feel like NASCAR wanted to dumb down the performance which is just silly IMO.

I'm still not a fan of bump to pass but I understand it's a big part of the history of the sport and certainly isn't going to go away. Unfortunately, the the competition so close the way it is these days I think it's almost a necessity to win or take positions in that manner in order to win a championship. This is a sad perspective IMO because very talented race car drivers will never win a championship... Mark Martin is a prime example. I don't know his history but I know his reputation. Even if the season turns around for him (which I'm it will) I still don't think a championship is in the making for him. He's simply not aggressive enough, and neither are a number of other talented drivers out there.

At any rate, at least I can get my fix for clean racing in F1 and I suppose that will just have to do. With the way the cars are driving now it is A LOT more entertaining to watch.

BTW Jeff, I'm understanding that the 80HP is very significant in these cars, however it's offset by the weight disadvantage that the system put in the car. Not only does the system add weight but it adds it in a manner that is nearly non-adjustable. There just aren't a lot of places they can put the system so even tough most teams have to add ballast to the car to meet the weight requirements, having KERS onboard limits their ability to move that weight around to their liking. From what I understand the developing engineers set the limitations on power from the KERS in a 50/50 manner such that the performance advantage is basically equivilant to the weight disadvantage. That's good for now considering not all the teams are using it. If FIA makes it more of an advantage in the future you will certainly see everybody opting for it because they will no other choice if they want to be competitive.

 

[Candyman]

At any rate, at least I can get my fix for clean racing in F1 and I suppose that will just have to do. With the way the cars are driving now it is A LOT more entertaining to watch.

With the exception of the ever-present pileup going into Turn 1 on Lap 1, anyways. I guess if they get the cars closer together, totally clean races may start to fade away.

 

[Lessen]

Well, I'm talking more of the "spirit" of the racing rather than the physical presence of contact. Contact will always be present in racing but it's not accepted as good racing in F1. Here we have a series in which you may not get credit finishing 3rd even if you are standing on the podium drinking champagne. There is much less grey area in F1 and the stewards are not a afraid to change the physical outcome of a race. That simply doesn't happen in stock car racing. These 2 series are worlds apart and sometimes both seem a little extreme but it is what it is.

 

[Candyman]

I do agree wholeheartedly there. The F1 stewards are always watching and have made many decisions which affect the outcome of the race. But as you said, that fosters an air of courtesy on the track. No one wants to get whacked with a penalty that costs them points. If NASCAR started doing that, things would be different. You wouldn't have guys like Kyle Bush (singled out because I think he's a peepee) drive hot into turn 3 at Martinsville and wipe out Scott Speed like he did Sunday. A 1 lap penalty carries a TON of weight in NASCAR. Just foot for thought there Mr. Helton...

 

[Lessen]

I havn't watched Mville on t.v. yet... I thought he cut a tire though... things happen gadt when you're there and the coverage isn't as thorough obviously.

 

[NCNitro]

Nope, it was Jackass Busch's overly agressive selfish driving style that took out Scott Speed.

http://www.nascar.com/video/cup/2009/03/29/cup.mar.high.one.nascar/index.html

 

[Lessen]

Thanks for clarifying Joe. I remember hearing something about a cut tire on the louspeakera... but you don't get the follow-up at the track. All I know is that it was at my end of the track and EVERYBODY was screaming and cheering to see him wreck. Gotta love that!