Pet fish...or w/e you call them...

[.21Rc10GT]

Ok, now, could someone tell me if i can put new gravel in the tank while the fish are in there? Should the new gravel first sit in a container of water for a few days, or just a rinse, and its good? I have a 46 gallon tank... My tap water isnt an issue. We are out in the country where we have our own well, so there is no chemicals to worry about. We just syphon the old water out with a hose, on to some plants or something. Hook the hose up to a faucet outside, and fill 'er up. Been doin it for about 10 years.. I do need help with the gravel though, i dont wanna kill my fish!!!

 

[Bouzouki]

Let me get this straight, there is no gravel in there right now?

I would think in a 46G, you would have enough room to pour the gravel in the tank without hurting the firsh.

Rinse the gravel first for sure, and rinse it well.

You clean the gravel with the device I linked to above while you are doing waterchanges.

 

[vgibbens]

Bouzouki, no need to get testy. Yes, I do maintain reef tanks, bigger than yours! Point of the matter is I don't want bad information getting to people starting out in a hobby. I'm fully aware of how wet/dry filters work, I build my own. First you say that nitrates don't matter cause they only affect corals, then you come back and say that yes it causes algae growth. You tell him to use sponges in the filters, another nitrate factory. There are lots of different ways to do things. I'm trying to help a fella out to avoid as many headaches as possible. Too many people rush into getting fish, fresh or marine, and they end up dieing the tank gets scrapped due to algae issues. I'm done with this.

RC10, If you're changing out all the gravel, I would do it about half at a time with about a week to two weeks in between to avoid any ammonia blooms. That should give enough time for the bacteria to colonize the new gravel. If you're just adding gravel, rinse it thoroughly and add it.

 

[.21Rc10GT]

It does have gravel in it, but it is looking ugly, and i want to add some color to the tank!

 

[Bouzouki]

Bouzouki, no need to get testy. Yes, I do maintain reef tanks, bigger than yours! Point of the matter is I don't want bad information getting to people starting out in a hobby. I'm fully aware of how wet/dry filters work, I build my own. First you say that nitrates don't matter cause they only affect corals, then you come back and say that yes it causes algae growth. You tell him to use sponges in the filters, another nitrate factory. There are lots of different ways to do things. I'm trying to help a fella out to avoid as many headaches as possible. Too many people rush into getting fish, fresh or marine, and they end up dieing the tank gets scrapped due to algae issues. I'm done with this.

Bigger than mine eh?

Well, actually, used to run a 300 gallon reef with 400W MH lighting SPS dominated

Yes, nitrates only effect corals and inverts.

Yes, high nitrates can cause Algae growth, so do Phosphates which is found in almost everyone's tap, oh no, should be get a RODI now?

You dont understand, when I said run a sponge, I didn't mean put it in a filter and leave it there for a year, you need to replace them, or at least wash them along with the carbon, etc.

I'm know algae, I run a $100+ RO/DI filter just to keep algae away.

Low nitrates arn't gonna give him so much algae that his tank will be covered in it.

You are trying to say Nitrates should be zero when people running Saltwater FOWLR tanks are using Wet drys, Nitrate factories, yet, they have no problem.

Why?

Because their tanks are FO ( Fish only )

Wet drys have no place in a reef, I strictly go by the Berlin system, 2-3 lbs of LR per gallon, heavy skimming, and no sand or a shallow sand bed.

I actually am running a bare bottom tnak now.

 

[vbgagnon]

Guys, Cvec is asking about a simple setup. No need to get into an arguemnt as to who's stuff is bigger, hell There is a lake near my house....So my aquarium is bigger than yours. Seriously who cares. Help the guy who asked the question and put your ego back where it came from.

 

[jetmechG550]

Cvec, you could start with a 20 gallon marine tank with a bag of bacterially live sand and some base rock, a hang on the back filter and a pair of clowfish or some other type of Damsels for relatively cheap. You DON'T need special lights unless you plan on having corals or anemones, a simple flourescent light strip would suffice.

This is not how you start someone out with a marine tank. Please don't go around telling anyone to do one stop shopping and expect to have fish in the tank right after they set it up. Yes you can cycle a tank with Damsels, it's hard on the fish but damsels are tough little bastards and you'll want to get rid of them anyway. Other clowns like tomato's or percs aren't really cheap or at $19+ isn't really cheap to some people. Sorry, but I've seen tooo many people come into the lfs and think that is how they can setup a marine tank and the lfs I use either tries to educate them some or tells them to go away.

Cvec, if you want to do some research on marine tanks head over to www.reefcentral.com There's a few other boards around where you can find all the information you want.

BTW, bouzouki very nice tank! Is that a green frogspawn in the upper right?

 

[Bouzouki]

It does have gravel in it, but it is looking ugly, and i want to add some color to the tank!

In that case, i'd remove about a cupfull of the gravel every few days until it is all gone.

The point behind this is, your gravel is probably filty, you dont want to upset the whole thing by removing it all at once.

When I removed my DSB (Deep sand bed), it smelled like rotton eggs!

This is not how you start someone out with a marine tank. Please don't go around telling anyone to do one stop shopping and expect to have fish in the tank right after they set it up. Yes you can cycle a tank with Damsels, it's hard on the fish but damsels are tough little bastards and you'll want to get rid of them anyway. Other clowns like tomato's or percs aren't really cheap or at $19+ isn't really cheap to some people. Sorry, but I've seen tooo many people come into the lfs and think that is how they can setup a marine tank and the lfs I use either tries to educate them some or tells them to go away.

Cvec, if you want to do some research on marine tanks head over to www.reefcentral.com There's a few other boards around where you can find all the information you want.

BTW, bouzouki very nice tank! Is that a green frogspawn in the upper right?

Just to let you guys know, I am STRICTLY against cycling with damsels, it is VERY very very hard on the fish to go through a cycle stage.

Instead, throw a few flakes in the tank once and a while, you may not even need to do this.

Reefcentral is the place to be for reef tanks.




And it is indeed a frog spawn, I run LPS and softies for now until I get my bigger tank, then the SPS will come in.

That pic is kind of old, I have no sand anymore, bare bottom.

 

[cvec7]

Ok, a few more questions....I still think I'm going to go freshwater tho...

Now from what I gather, "cycling" is basically letting the tank run w/ the filter on for around 2 weeks to let bacteria build-up, correct?

And, how often should the water be replaced?

What kind of test kits or water conditioners would I need for starting out?

Can I add some rocks and stuff from a lake or stream? And, will they serve a purpose besides beeing decorative?

Again, should I consider snails?

Plants, should I go w/ living ones right away if possible or buy living ones later on? And, if I get living ones right away, should I include them in the cycling process of the tank?

How big do rainbows get up to?

And will these fish be fine in the same tank?: rainbows, barbs, 2 dwarf plecos, danios, and rasboras

Of those fish, are any of them schooling fish that need to be kept in groups of six or more?

Should I buy a heater? In the summer the room I'd be keeping them in has a constant temp of 78* F plus, and the winter is significatly colder tho.

And is this a decent tank if I decide to go w/ a 12-gallon? http://www.petsmart.com/global/prod...<>ast_id=2534374302023693&bmUID=1123277635835


Thanks in advance!

 

[Bouzouki]

Now from what I gather, "cycling" is basically letting the tank run w/ the filter on for around 2 weeks to let bacteria build-up, correct?

You must let your tank cycle.

It aalows bacteria to build up, correct.

bacteria helps break down Amonia, etc.

No one can tell you how long it will take, when all your readings are zero, then it is done.

And, how often should the water be replaced?

Some people do 10% water changes a week, others do 20% a month

What kind of test kits or water conditioners would I need for starting out?

You need a good test kit, get somthing that includes a PH, Amonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate test ( I'm sure I'm forgeting somthing)

You dont need any water conditioners, maybe somthing for your tap water to get the chlorine out.

Can I add some rocks and stuff from a lake or stream? And, will they serve a purpose besides beeing decorative?

I'm not sure but I would get somthing from your LFS to be safe.

Rocks should help bacteria growth.

Again, should I consider snails?

If you want to get rid of algae, consider an Algea eater, they get big though.

Plants, should I go w/ living ones right away if possible or buy living ones later on? And, if I get living ones right away, should I include them in the cycling process of the tank?

I am unsure about this, I never did live plants so I dont know if they require any special care.

Should I buy a heater? In the summer the room I'd be keeping them in has a constant temp of 78* F plus, and the winter is significatly colder tho.

You may not need it now but you probably will in the winter.


I think Eclipse tanks have built in filters etc.

Anyways, you may find a 10 or 12 gallon to be small after a short time, a 20G is a good starter size.

 

[vgibbens]

This is not how you start someone out with a marine tank. Please don't go around telling anyone to do one stop shopping and expect to have fish in the tank right after they set it up. Yes you can cycle a tank with Damsels, it's hard on the fish but damsels are tough little bastards and you'll want to get rid of them anyway. Other clowns like tomato's or percs aren't really cheap or at $19+ isn't really cheap to some people. Sorry, but I've seen tooo many people come into the lfs and think that is how they can setup a marine tank and the lfs I use either tries to educate them some or tells them to go away.

Cvec, if you want to do some research on marine tanks head over to www.reefcentral.com There's a few other boards around where you can find all the information you want.

BTW, bouzouki very nice tank! Is that a green frogspawn in the upper right?

At no point did I say cycle the tank with damsels, and at no point did I say do it all in one day. I seem to recall telling him how to set up a tank without using animals and to wait 'til the bacteria had established itself. He said he didn't want to spend a lot of money and since live rock is so expensive, I gave him a "budget" way of setting one up. There is nothing wrong with the setup I gave him. Adding the bacterially live sand will in essence give you your bacteria, it's the same as buying cured live rock, please don't misunderstand what I was saying. I do not advocate cycling a tank with live animals. It's an option, but not my preferred method. I agree Reef central is the place to be. I've been a paying member for a few years. There are lots of helpful people with beautiful aquariums there.

 

[jetmechG550]

At no point did I say cycle the tank with damsels, and at no point did I say do it all in one day. I seem to recall telling him how to set up a tank without using animals and to wait 'til the bacteria had established itself. He said he didn't want to spend a lot of money and since live rock is so expensive, I gave him a "budget" way of setting one up. There is nothing wrong with the setup I gave him. Adding the bacterially live sand will in essence give you your bacteria, it's the same as buying cured live rock, please don't misunderstand what I was saying. I do not advocate cycling a tank with live animals. It's an option, but not my preferred method. I agree Reef central is the place to be. I've been a paying member for a few years. There are lots of helpful people with beautiful aquariums there.

The way your statement was written it came off like you said go buy all this and your good. To someone new that's how it looked. The debate on how to cycle can go on and on and on cause opinions are like, well you know. I was only pointing out that your statement of buy a 20 gal, a filter, some sand, some rock and some fish just sounded like a do it all at once and it's ok.

 

[vgibbens]

no worries, just clarifying. Like I said before, there are different ways of doing things, I just wanted to give the guy options.

 

[Da Hellion]

whooooaaaa RC Fish?

 

[jetmechG550]

whooooaaaa RC Fish?

Yeah but those little rc subs don't work too well after one use. :shrug:

 

[cvec7]

Lol, I never thought of that....I know fish can get stressed out pretty easy, but what the hell! lol, :jk:

 

[Bouzouki]

Your Nitrites etc will skyrocket during the cycle proccess, it's very hard on the poor fish.

 

[.21Rc10GT]

Alright, i need to start this thread up agian, because i have some questions...

Ok, i got my new gravel in the tank, along with some new bubble bars and some new plants. Well, the tank looks really good, but its kinda emtpy with the 2 goldfish in there. Again, the tank is 46g. My dad wants a couple (2) of those algea eaters... we call em "sucker fish" because they suck on the side of the tank... Would these go together with the goldfish? I clean the tank a little more often than once a week. I dont let the water get foggy. Is there any other kind of fish that would go along with these? I'm going into Petco tonight, so help would be appreciated. Thanks guys.

 

[Revo Rancher]

RC10, get only one. In a tank your size two might not find enough to eat, and getting used to a diet of zuchinni is hard to do. The are called plechastomous. (sp.) I had one that was pretty rare, had grey skin and blue eyes. They can grow to be quite big. They grow as much as their environment, so a larger tank with good algae growth, bigger plech. BTW, if you are getting a lot of algae, move the tank AWAY from a window or direct light source. Better for temp control and helps keep algae from growing.

Bouzoki, I was really big on fish awhile back, (gosh, it's been over ten years now) and here in So Cal, land of the tree huggers, all LFS recommended using damsels and humbugs as starter fish. What they did not recommend was using live coral in a tank until it Ph'd out. Nothing stinkier than dead/dying coral. You have to remember, coral is a live animal in it's "natural" state. I had a 100 gal and 400 gal reef tank, a 150 gal Oscar tank and a 35 gallon FW tank, all at the same time. (kept me busy!)

Easiest tank to get going? Oscars! (or anything ciclid, really) Another good tip to get a tank to look larger than it is, is to get one that is not real deep to the back, so you have more frontal viewing area and it keeps the fish swimming closer to the glass. And remember to turn your fish tank lights out (put them on a timer) at night. Fish get stressed if you don't let them have a "night".

 

[.21Rc10GT]

Alright, so i will get one of those. What other kinds of fish go well with goldfish??