• Welcome to RCTalk! 🚀

    Join the #1 RC community where hobbyists connect, share, and get expert advice on RC cars, trucks, boats, drones, and more!

    • Friendly & passionate RC enthusiasts
    • RC tips & troubleshooting
    • Buy, sell & trade RC gear
    • Share builds & upgrades

Need help from Heli pilots...

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Candyman

'Cuse is in the house!
Supporter
Messages
6,823
Reaction score
30
Points
768
Location
Syracuse, NY
RC Driving Style
OK, I decided that I needed something to do over the winter. So I ordered a GWS Dargonfly micro-heli. Yes, this will be my first heli. I've been doing a lot of reading and I think I have a pretty good basic understanding of how to set it up, how to balance it and things to do to get the hang of basic heli flight. But there are a few things that I want to be sure of. First off, tail rotor control. I know this is on the horizontal of the left stick. Where the rudder would usually be on a full house plane. Now if I understand right, it should be set up so that when you push the tail stick right, the tail will go left when looking from the rear, correct? And vice versa?
And I read Error's post on the guy who was mauled by his copter and he talked about "tail in" and "nose in". What does this mean?
What other things should I look out for when I get this?
 
cnadyman, although i have minimal stick time behind heli's, i do still have some knowledge. as far as things to watch for, if u havnt flown before, get some training wheels (if made for a micro) and learn to hover 4-8 inches from the ground. it is MUCH MUCH harder to hover that low, than higher in the air, due to the vortex effect of the prop wash.

as for set up - u want the boom to swing to the right, looking at the rear of the heli, when u push the stick left. reason for this, is that u want the heli to turn to the left, so the rear needs to move right.

Error's post is sad, but here is another that is even worse.

Man killed by model helicopter
07:01 AM CST on Monday, November 3, 2003

By Jeremy Desel / 11 News
HOUSTON -- A bizarre accident with a model helicopter killed a Houston man Sunday afternoon.
The victim was watching the radio-controlled aircraft at Tom Bass Park in southwest Harris County.
KHOU-TV
The helicopter that killed the victim is fuel-powered and radio-controlled.
"They can get up to some pretty high speeds," said Sgt. Hudson with the Harris County Sheriff's Department.

Traffic was grounded after the accident as sheriff's investigators tried to figure out what happened to cause the death of 41-year-old Ronald Kyle of southwest Houston.

"He was going through some flight maneuvers with the helicopter and he turned the controls over to the student and the helicopter got away from him," said Hudson.
Kyle was an instructor.
The student, who police did not identify, owns the model involved in the incident.
KHOU-TV
Some children were reportedly in the park when the accident happened and may have seen it.
Its 2-inch wide blades are made of fiberglass, but the engine spins with enough power to make them dangerous -- especially if the craft gets out of control -- which appeared to be the case Sunday.
"Came back toward the two individuals and the helicopter struck the deseased in the throat area," said Hudson.

The impact of the crash killed Kyle almost immediately.

Investigators say the man operating the helicopter had been in one of this areas ten chapters of the Academy of Model Aeronautics for about nine months. That organization has more than 170,000 members nationwide.

We are told the student was working toward a flight certification -- but had yet to complete it.
There are designated areas for flying and for watching at the park. Both men were in the operations area at the time.
 
Heli's are more expensive than cars.

You'll need a simulator to practice on. It'll save you alot of money.

When you get your copter, one of the most important thing is GYRO, get the best one you can afford. I can honestly say that your expeience with heli's will be better or worse depending on how good your GYRO is.

As for flight directions and controlls, search the web, its an excellent resource. Look at a site called Littlerotors.com. Check the links.....etc..


KYOSHO 1

And good luck.
 
Originally posted by Nitroaddict Error's post is sad, but here is another that is even worse.

Wasn't my post, I just replied to it. But if that was directed at my reply, well, it's just my humble opinion.

Candyman, always remember this: Never think of the tail and which way it moves. This will only cause confusion later. If you move the rudder (tail rotor) stick left, then the nose should move left, just like a fixed wing plane.

Depth perception: do you have real good depth perception? Helis don't present much in the way of a sight profile and the pilot can become disoriented easily. Essentially only the pod and the tail fin are visible in flight, and the heli can appear to be flying one way when in fact it is going the other way. If you end up flying toward yourself, do not try to go to a hover pointed nose in (more on that in a minute), keep flying until it passes by you and then transition to a hover. Foreward flight should be avoided until you can hover pretty good. When you're nose in (the nose is pointed at you), the right stick is all backwards, just like driving a car. In a hover it is real easy to move the sticks in the wrong direction when it's nose in. Say the heli stats drifting toward you, you brain says to push the right stick to get it to go away from you. But since this is wrong (from the heli's perspective) you will end up flying faster toward you. The best thing I could suggest is to remember to move the stick under the low side of the rotor when hovering (from the heli's perspective). Hovering nose out keeps things "simple" by not having to deal with apparently reversed controls.

NA was right about low hovers being harder than high hovers. There's a thing called "the bubble" that happens down low. Essentially it's a high pressure area where the air can't get out of the way due to the ground. It's kind of like a hovercraft effect. Riding the bubble is cool once you get the hang of it, but until then there'll be alot of bobbing around. If this bobbing gets too bad, either increase throttle to get above the bubble and settle down, or land it. Landing it can be tricky because if you hit too hard, you'll boom strike and F your heli up. The rotor will flex down and strike the tail boom, this is bad.

Training gear for a micro. If you don't have a set, or can't find one, they are pretty easy to make. Some wood dowels (2 2' pieces), 4 whiffle balls and some rubber bands or zip ties. Make a cross with the dowels and secure the balls on the ends and attach to the skids. Make sure the training gear is as big as the rotor span. This will add weight to the heli making it less prone to getting too high, and will decrease the likelyhood of tip overs.

Hope this helped, and good luck (it aint easy).
Whitt...
 
I have been doing a lot of reading. And I have come to the realization that it is going to be a slow process. I certainly don't expect to be ripping around the yard on day 1. I am getting training gear with it which I know will help. And it's coming with spare main and tail rotors just in case. I do plan on taking it slow and perfecting my hover before I do anything else. I've heard that it can take quite a while to get the thing all balanced and trimmed and even able to get off the ground. I am just hoping that by Spring I'll be good enough to go outside with it now and again.
I appreciate all the input. Sounds like a lot of stuff I've read, but reaffirms all of it. So basically, I should start with the copter pointed away from me and work on very low hovers. God willing I'll actually be able to get a little hover in a few weeks....

Thanks guys...
 
Sounds good.

One thing I forgot to mention, and I never read about it. My dad flew Chinooks in the late '60's and he has a ton of time in 1:1 helis, and he told me about this. It's called ground induced ocilation. It happens right about the time when the heli is ready to take off when it's real light on the skids. The rotor and other mechanics will always make the heli vibrate slightly (unless it's just perfect). The ground is essentially immovable and will reflect these vibrations back up to the heli thru the skids. This in turn will make the heli vibrate more, and thus create a cycle that will eventually make something break. This can be avoided by not dicking around when it starts getting light on the skids. You'll get the hang of knowing when it's about to take off, and when it does, just give it a tad more throttle to get it airborne. Once it's in the air the only vibration you'll get is from the main and tail rotor. If it's a bad vibration, balace them again.

Another thing about rotor wash is called decending ring state. This happens above the bubble. Essentially the rotorwash forms a doughnut where air is moving down in the center and then wraps back up to reenter the rotor disk again. This doughnut will drasticly decrease the total lift from the rotor and make the heli decend at an alarming rate. If this happens, fly out of it, do not try to out thrust it. Flying in a slight breeze makes DRS less of a factor, but you'll probably fly first in calm winds.

And speaking of breezes, the rotor becomes more effecient with a horrizontal "wind" on it, it starts acting like a wing instead of a propeller. When you're hovering, a breeze will first make the lift decrease, then increase. What it looks like is: In a stable hover a gust hits the heli, then it dips, then it balloons up. You'll get the hang of playing with the throttle to compensate for this as well as the cyclic to keep it in the same place over the ground.

Sorry, I'm babbling again.
Whitt...

ps, now I gotta get mine out again, thanks.
 
Wow, looks like I have some of you on a roll. Maybe this will get Christian on a jones and he'll actually fly that heli he's been talking about all year!!!

And kyosho 1, thanks for that link. That site is cool. Has a lot of good training advice on it. I plan on following their training routine. Seems pretty simple.

And now for some other questions. This doesn't really apply to me yet, because the heli I'm getting is fixed pitch. But I don't quite get the collective pitch thing totally. I know the basic is that on a collective pitch heli, you can control the pitch of the main rotors. I thought at one time I saw a diagram that showed that pitch is controlled by the same stick that controls throttle. But I guess I'm confused because in reading a few things, it sounds like with a collective pitch machine, throttle stays pretty steady and you control lift/descent with the collective. OK, so how does that work? Or are the 2 always mixed? And am I to assume that you can control the pitch in a positive and negative pitch from neutral? Is that how they get the heli's to hover upside down? Being a newbie, I still can't imagine how to get one to flip. But my eyes tell me it can be done. Ohhhh so many questions....
 
Dude, some folks call it a pandora's box.

Yes, on a collective heli the throttle axis controls both the throttle on the engine and the blade pitch. The idea is to get the rotor head speed to remain constant. An increase in blade pitch will, if unchecked, slow the head speed and thus reduce the control authority and total lift. Collective heli radios have the throttle and collective channels mixed full time. On most new radios, it is possible to tweak the servo response curve to match the engine power to the collective in order to maintain a constant head speed. So, in effect what you get is both an increase in blade pitch and a proportional increase in engine torque (not RPM).

For what's called "switchless inverted" the blade pitch is set so that it goes from (example) negative 12 degrees to positive degrees (low throttle stick to high) and the throttle curve goes from 100% at low stick to (example) 40% at midstick where the pitch is 0 degrees to 100% at pull stick and positive pitch. To fly inverted you roll or loop the heli into inverted and then immediately move the throttle stick to a point less then half stick. This will make the blades have a positive pitch when inverted and the throttle is where it needs to be (somewhere above 40% for a hover). These figures are just off the top of my head, but you get the point. The radios will have a switch called flight mode, usually a 3 position switch. The first is for idle and hovering, the second sets the low end of the throttle a bit higher so that you can makes rapid decents w/o the head speed getting too low (and also has a bit more negative pitch). The third will have the switchless inverted mixing stated above.

If you want to see some insane heli action, check this guy out.
www.curtisyoungblood.com
Get his demo tape, I did and it is insane. He also has a book on helis and setting them up. It's well worth the investment if you fly a nitro powered heli.
 
How much does one of those Drgonfly's go for. I've been drooling ove a Kyosho 30 for a long while but I think it may be over my head to start out with. Maybe an electric isthe right way to start. Does it come RTR or rather RTF? If so could I use the Radio for another heli when I'm ready to upgrade?
 
I got my Feda Dragonfly fully ready to fly with extra main and tail rotors, flybar, paddles and swashplate as well as training gear and an extra battery for about $250 shipped off e-bay.

And thanks, Error. You have given me tons of useful info. I plan on spending a few nights just getting the setup right before I even spool it up. Figure I'll have to set the linkages to make sure everything is square first. Balance the main and tail rotors. make sure the CG is right under the main shaft. Then spool it up to set the trims and stuff.

1 last question. It's coming with a simple GWS 4-channel tx. But I was thinking of swapping out the tx and using my Hitec Flash 4 computer tx. It doesn't have a heli function, but the heli is fixed pitch so I don't think I need to worry about that. But I was thinking of programming some expo into the fore/aft and left/right cyclic to tone down the effects of my newbie thumbs. Think this would be a good idea? Would it make the heli a little easier to fly and a little less responsive at first?
 
No problem Candyman.

As for the radio, you will only need a heli radio if your heli has collective. It is also possible to fly a collective heli with a 4 channel, but it requires a bit more tuning with a special Y adapter. I'm not sure if there many that will do that, but I've heard that it is possible. Remember, ya have to tune the pitch to the torque (or is it the other way round?). Anyway, if you prefer to use your favorite radio and all ya need is a 4 channel, then by all means do so, there's no harm in it.

I know you'll take your time, and it'll be a blast when you do get to buzzing around the yard with it, I know mine is a blast (MS Composit Hornet FP). The micro electrics are a real change from the bigger nitro and gas burners.

Whitt...
 
Back
Top