mini-T run times... or any 1/18th

[Mallanaga]

i recently fell into a mini-T... thank you eddy.

i want some crazy run times... would the combination here give me something close to an hour? an hour is my goal...

thanks...

 

[FastEddy]

I believe that the Mini uses a different back then that.
Depending on how hard your running, it may come close to an hour.

 

[Mallanaga]

what do you mean by 'a different back than that'?

the motor and ESC are designed for the mini-T... the battery... i'm not sure if it'll fit, but i'm going with a yes.

good to hear... i doubt i would ever get to full throttle... i'll be in my house mainly, which is why i went with the weakest motor in the mamba series. it will be more than i need, for what i'm doing, but also be exactly what i want if i want it to be! you can quote me on that one

 

[FastEddy]

LOL Sorry, I meant Pack, as in Battery pack. It is more of a square shape then a rectangle.

 

[Mallanaga]

i've been looking around... would i benefit from using a quark 22/33 in this beast instead? i'm just curious is the control is any better... or the software is even any better or not.

the mamba-25 is 25amps... obviously. if i go with the quark i have two options. 22amps or 33amps. if i have no intentions of ever putting a power house engine in it (i want to keep it around the 4000kV), will i be alright just going with the 22? or, will i benefit from running the 33 because of having less strain on its total capacity?

The Sky & Technology Quark 22amp Pro-Car is perfect for 1/18th scale cars & trucks using small brushless motors like the Castle Creations Mamba series. Featuring a protective case & built in Heat sink, the Quark controller is built to last and comes with 3.5mm Gold plugs (both Male & Female) and an oversized 330uf cap for smooth cogless startups.

• 22amps Continuous Rated
• Ultra High 38,000hz Switching Rate
• Fully CE Compliant
• Fully Programmable Reverse & Reverse Lockout
• Fully Programmable Brakes & Drag Brake
• Fully Programmable Torque Control & Startup Power
• Fully Programmable Battery Control & Cut-off Voltage
• Remote Mount 330uf Electrolytic Cap.
• Male & Female 3.5mm Gold Plugs included

The Sky & Technology Quark 33amp Pro-Car is Perfect for those looking for a 1/16th-1/18th car controller to handle more current for higher output motors. Featuring a protective case & built in Heat sink, the Quark controller is built to last and comes with 3.5mm Gold plugs (both Male & Female) and an oversized 330uf cap for smooth cogless startups. We highly recommend this controller for the more powerful 300 watt motors such as the Hyperion Long Can Series, WRAITH 7K, ALIGN 430, WARP 4 & other 300+ watt motors.

• 33amps Continuous Rated
• Ultra High 38,000hz Switching Rate
• Fully CE Compliant
• Fully Programmable Reverse & Reverse Lockout
• Fully Programmable Brakes & Drag Brake
• Fully Programmable Torque Control & Startup Power
• Fully Programmable Battery Control & Cut-off Voltage
• Remote Mount 330uf Electrolytic Cap.
• Male & Female 3.5mm Gold Plugs included

honestly, i think that answers my question... but they do offer a bundle that includes the 33amp ESC with the 4200 mamba. there's only a $5 difference, so price is pointless. i'm thinking just go with the 22 and be done with it... agreed?


as for the batteries... what's the difference between a 2200mah pack and a 1000mah pack... both have the same voltage. will the 'bigger' pack have much longer run times (that's what i'm thinking based on what i've learned already)? i know the 1000mah pack looks like it will fit better.

VS.

like i said... i want a long run time. that being said, is the 2200 the better battery? i was checking out 1/18th.com, and they usually point to the 1000... i don't know if it's because the 2200 wasn't around or what exactly the case was. any help is appreciated. i just can't wait to get my hands on this little bugger and figure it out.

 

[sweetdiesel]

The Quark is overkill for the mamba mini line of motors. Average current draw on these 280 size motors is less than 10 amps and max is under 25 amps. The Mamba ESC can handle 25 amps continuous, you'll have no problem using it with the mamba motor. The current demand is especially low considering the fact that you are using the 4200Kv motor.

In terms of programmability, the Mamba 25 is very easy to use if you have the Castle Link cable. It's just a few mouse clicks for the initial set-up programming and you can also adjust the brake and throttle curves. The cable is an extra cost though. I've never tried programming the Mamba without the Castle Link.

The Quark is also easy to program and uses a series of beep tones and a bank of led lights to confirm programming input. It might sound complicated but is actually very easy to use. It does not have adjustable brake and throttle curves, but that is not critical unless you are racing.

 

[Mallanaga]

while this thought process is happening... i have to keep my eventual E-Revo in mind... as i want the same stuff for both, essentially. for instance, i think i put the revo on hold due to money... i really want to put some quality components in it. that being said, i will probably end up going with the quark125 (as opposed to rocking the MambaMax). so... basically, i can get this cheap, small, stuff now and learn from it for when the time comes to complete the E-revo.

from there, i can't help but feel that i want quark in the mini. the 33 is out. the 22... in. i like the beep concept. plus, that means i can change settings on the fly, instead of having to come back to the computer to adjust stuff. also, the quark just looks like a better piece of equipment.

maybe it's just me... i'm anal about stuff matching. i don't like a general knowledge of things... i like to focus and get really good at one thing. hence, i'll want to have the same type of ESC in all my vehicles.

thanks for the help, SD. any input on the batteries for this little bugger? i think from what you've said already, the 2200 would be the way to go for run times, but any other thoughts are appreciated.

 

[sweetdiesel]

I have both the Mamba 25 and the Quark 33 Pro-car. The Mamba can be programmed manually, I just haven't attempted it to see if it is easy or not. Also, once you get your ESC settings correct, they don't change. You'll only need to revisit the programming stages if you change motors/gearing/ or battery capacity/voltage. Also just because the Quark looks more beefy, it's actually not as sturdy as the Mamba 25. The ESC board rattles within the plastic housing, and you are somewhat limited to how you can mount it and still be able to access the programming button.

With the 4200Kv system, personally I would run a 3S lipo and the largest capacty pack I could fit in it. If your transmitter has EPA adjustment you can turn it down for running inside the house, and then turn it back up for running outdoors.

 

[Mallanaga]

that being said... OK... i'll go with the mamba. i guess i have to learn... get the best things for their appropriate application. check, lol. i did some searching, and apogee makes some new packs that are 1500mah, and made to fit inside a mini-T. perfect...

http://pfmdistribution.com/secure/shop/item.asp?itemid=245&catid=61

now... with the cell count, i thought i followed you from the other thread, but i guess not. why would you use a 3S over a 2S? you said the mah doesn't multiply, since it's wired in series. it ups the voltage, but not the amperage. the voltage won't change my run times, will it? like i said, i'm not worried about power, honestly. the 2S will get me to about 25mph-ish, and that's plenty for me and my girl.

speak to me... lol. sorry... i feel like i'm harrassing you now, SD, but you seem to be the go to guy, here. is there like... a website that has all this information laid out? i tried wikipedia... nada. google, meh. you have to be figuring this out somewhere!

 

[sweetdiesel]

I suggested the 3S pack because the 4200Kv motor on 2S would be too slow for me outdoors. I also suggested the largest capacity pack that you can fit in the chassis because more mah will give you longer runtimes.

Take a look at the chassis and measure how much room you have to fit a battery. Don't just go by the manufacturer suggested packs, look at the dimensions of other packs.

 

[Mallanaga]

C-rap

Thunder Power 2000 Pro-lite 7.4v Li-poly Pack

• Size: 45mm x 69mm x 13mm
• Weight: 85grams
• Rating: 12C (24A) Continuous discharge, 20C Burst, 160watt class
• Recommendations: 18oz & lighter models using Speed 400 sized brushed or brushless motors requiring 24amps or less in continuous current.

Apogee Magnum 2-Cell 1500 mAh Short Battery Pack
Pack Specifications:

• Capacity: 1500 mAh
• Dimensions: 17mm Thick x 42mm Wide x 63mm Long
• Weight: 80 Grams (2.86 Oz)
• 16 Gauge Silicon Wire Leads

Operating Specifications:

• Maximum Charged Voltage: 8.4V
• Minimum Discharged Voltage: 6.0V
• Maximum Charge Amperage: As Listed on Pack
• Maximum Continuous Discharge Amperage: 30A (20C)
• Maximum Operating Temperature: 60C (140F)

could i get a heads up here? i keep hearing some good stuff about thunder power, but looking at their C rating, leaves some to be desired... am i out of line thinking this? based on the quotes i'm about to show... what would be a better battery? the C rating on the TP is just confusing me. is it 12C or 20C? the apogee is listed as 20C maximum continuous... help. if they are both 20C then i think i'm just gonna go with the TP. if not... then there in lies the rub.

Current output capability
Lipos are commonly rated as "10C" or "15C" or "20C". The "C" stands for the capacity of the pack in Mah (milliamp hours). The "10, 15, and 20" stand for how many times of the capacity the pack can deliver continuously in amps.

So a 3800mah pack rated at 10C can deliver 38A continuously. A 3800mah pack rated at 20C can deliver 76A continuously.

"Ratings" can be misleading however. Apogee, Kokam, Orion, Peak and Tanic all have an impeccable record of their products standing up to what they SAY they will deliver.

So what does this have to do with anything? Well, lipos are subject to the same rules of performance as any other battery. They are still an electron storage device - just in a different package and configuration than you're used to seeing. The main parameter controlling a battery's performance is internal resistance. The lower the internal resistance, the more amps (speed/punch) it can deliver, the higher the voltage (speed/punch) it will maintain during that delivery and the cooler it will be at the end of the delivery.

So the above "10C" 3800mah pack would give lower top speed, less punch, and be hotter at the end of a run than the "20C" 3800mah pack. The exact same run will also use more mah from the 10C pack than it would from the 20C pack.

So the (actual) "C" rating of a battery is important to know, but what else affects performance?

Mah Capacity
One of the most interesting things about lipos is that as the Mah of the pack goes up - so does the output performance. As above - a 10C 3800mah pack can do 38A. If we parallel two of those packs together to make one 7600mah pack, we can then get 76A from it. From the above, we know that the more amps the pack is capable of, the more speed and punch are available, and at a lower pack temperature. So ideally, we'd want to run the most mah that can fit in the car, and have that pack be "rated" for the highest reliable "C" rating we can find. This maximizes speed and punch, and minimizes heat within the pack.

Just like you wouldn't want to run the GP1100 pack from your 18th scale car in your 10th scale car, you wouldn't want to run too small of a lipo for the performance that you want.

The C rating tells you a few things. It tells you how much current the pack can discharge in amps continuously, and there is also a burst rating, which tells you how many amps the pack can discharge for a second or two. Packs that have higher C ratings are more favorable than lower C ratings, obviously because they can output a greater amount of energy with the least amount of weight. So to figure out how many amps a battery can output, take the C rating and multiply it by the Ah rating of the pack.

Example a 20C cont. rated pack that has a capacity of 6000mah can output 120 amps continuously

20 x 6 amps (1000 miliamp hour = 1 amp hour) = 120

 

[sweetdiesel]

The continuous C rating on the Apogee is better, but the TP is a higher capacity pack, which helps make up for it's lower C rating. Overall the continuous discharge rate on the TP is lower than the Apogee. Either pack will be fine for your application since

Average current draw on these 280 size motors is less than 10 amps and max is under 25 amps.

The TP will run longer than the Apogee given the same load of < 10 amps cont, but the Apogee has the potential to output a greater amount of energy than the TP.

 

[Mallanaga]

ok... i bought the TP. i might get the apogee at a later date just to do a comparison... unless i really like the TP. i'm just hoping to get an hour run time out of this little bugger.