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How much punishment can LiPOs take?
- Thread starter Hyster
- Start date
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Hi Hyster. You definitely cannot treat LIPOs like NICD or NIMH cells. They are very energy dense and can be volatile. A mishandled or improperly charge LIPO can lead to a violent venting with flames that is very capable of starting a fire.
I'm new to RC cars, but have been using LIPOs for years in the air. I'm actually surprised that people bash with LIPOs. The rule we use for air applications is to carefully inspect the pack after hard landings or crashes. Many, such as myself, will dispose of a LIPO after a crash. For the most part, you want to look at the pack for damage to any of the cells, or swelling. In every case, it is recommended to secure the pack in a fireproof location for at least 24 hours after potential damage has occured.
I think some of the charging technology that has come on the market in the past few years has made the technology more accessible, but it is still potentially volatile and should be used with care. One thing I do not see much of for surface applications is cell balancing. That's also something that concerns me.
If you're going to use a LIPO in an RC car, I would recommend that it be secured in foam, carefully inspected after every use, and stored out of the vehicle in a fireproof container.
Dave
I'm new to RC cars, but have been using LIPOs for years in the air. I'm actually surprised that people bash with LIPOs. The rule we use for air applications is to carefully inspect the pack after hard landings or crashes. Many, such as myself, will dispose of a LIPO after a crash. For the most part, you want to look at the pack for damage to any of the cells, or swelling. In every case, it is recommended to secure the pack in a fireproof location for at least 24 hours after potential damage has occured.
I think some of the charging technology that has come on the market in the past few years has made the technology more accessible, but it is still potentially volatile and should be used with care. One thing I do not see much of for surface applications is cell balancing. That's also something that concerns me.
If you're going to use a LIPO in an RC car, I would recommend that it be secured in foam, carefully inspected after every use, and stored out of the vehicle in a fireproof container.
Dave
There are many packs that have a hard case to help protect the cells from puncture. In applications where a pack does not have a hard plastic case, you will need to ensure the pack is appropriately protected and secured. I use hard density foam to fill any gaps between the pack and the battery tray/box.
I don't think it is fair to compare the forces placed on a lipo pack from a plane crash versus a car. The fragile plane cannot survive after 1 crash, whereas the car chassis can absorb the majority of the crash and still keep running.
Can you bash with them? Sure you can. Just don't be careless when you bash.
I don't think it is fair to compare the forces placed on a lipo pack from a plane crash versus a car. The fragile plane cannot survive after 1 crash, whereas the car chassis can absorb the majority of the crash and still keep running.
Can you bash with them? Sure you can. Just don't be careless when you bash.
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They are not near as dangerous as people make them out to be. I was very worried about using them, but now, they are all i use in my rigs.
Hyster
RCTalk Addict
- Thread starter
- #5
Yeah, I will say, that when I told myself I was going to go BL and get LiPOs that I would probably invest in a LiPO sack. It's either that or one of those safes that can survive a house fire. I would assume that if it can keep fire out from getting in, it must be able to do the same going out.
As for disposing after a crash, RC's crash all the time. That would require a lot of money. In video's, I have seen posted on here, rigs with LiPOs are getting slammed around all the time. The ones I have seen catch fire usually were due to hard runs not hard impacts. Can't say that it's proof that lipos can take a licking but they do seem to handle a bit of roughing up with no issues.
The reason I brought this question up was due to one video of a truggy catching fire and the warnings you normally see on general lithium batteries. It just wasn't adding up due to the last 5 months of me witnessing bashes with lipo batteries in RC off road and on road with no consequences until now.
Thanks for the heads up on your knowlage based on air flight OneHump and yours as well SweetD.
As for disposing after a crash, RC's crash all the time. That would require a lot of money. In video's, I have seen posted on here, rigs with LiPOs are getting slammed around all the time. The ones I have seen catch fire usually were due to hard runs not hard impacts. Can't say that it's proof that lipos can take a licking but they do seem to handle a bit of roughing up with no issues.
The reason I brought this question up was due to one video of a truggy catching fire and the warnings you normally see on general lithium batteries. It just wasn't adding up due to the last 5 months of me witnessing bashes with lipo batteries in RC off road and on road with no consequences until now.
Thanks for the heads up on your knowlage based on air flight OneHump and yours as well SweetD.
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I run lipo’s in all my electrics.
They are pretty well protected in my Slash and ERevo, but in my touring cars, they are exposed. My onroad got hacked a few times last season pretty bad and even had one guy T-Bone me on the battery side while I was going around a corner. My body collapsed and you could see the paint from his body on my lipo pack. Pack suffered no damage other than cosmetic.
I think the only real issue is if the pack gets punctured. This is why some sort of hard case is a must.
As Godale showed in another thread, even NiMH packs can explode without warning.
They are pretty well protected in my Slash and ERevo, but in my touring cars, they are exposed. My onroad got hacked a few times last season pretty bad and even had one guy T-Bone me on the battery side while I was going around a corner. My body collapsed and you could see the paint from his body on my lipo pack. Pack suffered no damage other than cosmetic.
I think the only real issue is if the pack gets punctured. This is why some sort of hard case is a must.
As Godale showed in another thread, even NiMH packs can explode without warning.
I have to respectfully disagree with some of what was said. Please don't take offense, but LIPOs are every bit as dangerous as they are made out to be. The biggest contributor to LIPO incidents is complacency. I've spent the past 7 years on rcgroups.com reading about people who have lost their houses due to venting. As soon as you let your guard down, you get an incident.
As for the comparison between air and surface, it's not about the damage to the outside of the cell as much as it is the damage inside. It takes very little to kill an airplane, as you mentioned, but a truck can take a pounding and drive away. If I'm tossing a battery after a hard landing, or an ejection, why wouldnt I be equally as concerned after a bash session?
I think hard cases will probably help to avoid punctures and dents, but won't necessarily prevent internal damage.
I do have to disagree that LIPOs are not dangerous. If you're at risk, you're at risk. You can walk across a busy street against the light for years and claim it's safe, but that doesn't make it so. It only takes one incident to burn your house down.
That said, incidents are completely avoidable with proper care and charging. In that case, LIPOs are safe. As soon as you think LIPOs are safe, they become unsafe. Does that make sense?
Again, no offense, just my 2 cents worth.
As for the comparison between air and surface, it's not about the damage to the outside of the cell as much as it is the damage inside. It takes very little to kill an airplane, as you mentioned, but a truck can take a pounding and drive away. If I'm tossing a battery after a hard landing, or an ejection, why wouldnt I be equally as concerned after a bash session?
I think hard cases will probably help to avoid punctures and dents, but won't necessarily prevent internal damage.
I do have to disagree that LIPOs are not dangerous. If you're at risk, you're at risk. You can walk across a busy street against the light for years and claim it's safe, but that doesn't make it so. It only takes one incident to burn your house down.
That said, incidents are completely avoidable with proper care and charging. In that case, LIPOs are safe. As soon as you think LIPOs are safe, they become unsafe. Does that make sense?
Again, no offense, just my 2 cents worth.
ALL my lipo's are stored in a Sentry fireproof lock box just for that reason.
Lipos are dangerous and so are NiMH cells. This is why you don't leave them charging unattended.
Believe me, when I think a pack is damaged in some way, I dispose of it properly as I have done on 2 packs so far. One of them cost me $125 and it was my own fault in wiring.
Lipos are dangerous and so are NiMH cells. This is why you don't leave them charging unattended.
Believe me, when I think a pack is damaged in some way, I dispose of it properly as I have done on 2 packs so far. One of them cost me $125 and it was my own fault in wiring.
I wouldn't expect anything less from you Rob. 
I charge and store in LipoSacks and also have something called a LipoVault, which is a ceramic jar that is lipo proof.
I also store my lipos in the fridge next to the salami, but that's another conversation.
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I charge and store in LipoSacks and also have something called a LipoVault, which is a ceramic jar that is lipo proof.I also store my lipos in the fridge next to the salami, but that's another conversation.
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OneHump you are preaching to the choir here. No one disagrees that lipos do not have the potential to be dangerous. When they are properly handled, stored and cared for they are quite safe. It's a no brainer to toss a pack if it's visibly damaged.
But I disgaree with your comparison of using it in a plane versus a car. If they were so volatile and subject to cell damage at the slightest bump they wouldn't survive the shipping from overseas and the multiple times they are handled through our white gloved USPS, UPS, and Fed Ex deliveries.
But I disgaree with your comparison of using it in a plane versus a car. If they were so volatile and subject to cell damage at the slightest bump they wouldn't survive the shipping from overseas and the multiple times they are handled through our white gloved USPS, UPS, and Fed Ex deliveries.
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Amoeba
RCTalk Addict
I charge mine on a brick in a pan of sand and never charge them unattended but so umm... I should probably take them out of the cars & radio when done driving and store them somewhere fireproof huh?
Uh, excuse me a moment, I'll be right back
:jet:
Uh, excuse me a moment, I'll be right back
:jet:
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Yea. I'm in no way saying they are "safe" but people make them seem like they are made out of nitroglycerine (sp) or somthing like that. One little bump, and your entire city block will be destroyed. I have seen more nimh/nicd packs blow on this site, than lipo. That said, i still store mine in a fire proof "safe" from walmart.
This is what I use.
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/SentrySafe-500-FIRE-SAFE-Cubic-Black/dp/B000W8J75E/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=office-products&qid=1233776903&sr=8-2[/ame]
They call it a safe. I call it a lock box. Got it from Wally World for $20.
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/SentrySafe-500-FIRE-SAFE-Cubic-Black/dp/B000W8J75E/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=office-products&qid=1233776903&sr=8-2[/ame]
They call it a safe. I call it a lock box. Got it from Wally World for $20.
I use one of these for storage
I got it free when I bought some rounds at the gun show. Most surplus houses/gun stores have them for $5-20. The safe looks much more elegant though.
I got it free when I bought some rounds at the gun show. Most surplus houses/gun stores have them for $5-20. The safe looks much more elegant though.
Amoeba
RCTalk Addict
I wrap mine in bacon on a slice of bread with pepperjack.
That's a fantastic idea. I've been wrapping my ESC with prosciutto. I'll have to try the Lipo.
Amoeba
RCTalk Addict
If anyone marks either of our last 2 post as helpful I fear for the human race.
To bring this back on-topic... external damage/punctures or swelling can be detected but someone mentioned internal damage also being an issue that could cause kaboom. Are there ways to detect internal damage pro-actively? Voltage checks or something?
Just curious guys.... what do you store you NiMh packs in.... or for that matter how do you store them period? Thanks
Tom
