General newbie battery question - SOP

[Manderthal]

I've only just recently gotten more involved in the hobby and all the stories about the danger of LIPO batteries has me a bit freaked out. I have the fancy charger that stabilizes the battery and puts it in storage mode
https://www.amainhobbies.com/protek...lipo-balance-battery-charger-ptk-8522/p696353

and the fire-proof (looks like a lunch bag cooler) battery bag
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B091L1XCF3?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

but I'm still just not sure what's the SOP with these things.
For example:
Do I keep the battery in storage condition until I want to use it so I have to freshly charge it every single time?
If I only have 10 or 15 minutes while grilling dinner to screw around with the truck do I have to charge it first, play around, then discharge it/storage condition before going to bed for the night or else the house is going to burn down around me?
If I tuck the battery into its special bag each night is it safe in the house?
I want to have a healthy respect for these things but I've been ignoring the truck because the battery prep hasn't been worth the bother for short bashes around the yard.
Thanks

 

[DavidB1126]

Do I keep the battery in storage condition until I want to use it so I have to freshly charge it every single time?

My rules for my lipos, are that you can leave them charged for a day max, if you don't plan to use them, storage charge them as it is the most safest voltage to store at. Even after a run or a day of RC, what I do is directly put them in a storage charge until I use them again (balance charge)

If I only have 10 or 15 minutes while grilling dinner to screw around with the truck do I have to charge it first, play around, then discharge it/storage condition before going to bed for the night or else the house is going to burn down around me?

I always balance charge,run it, and i either charge it again (for another bash session,or another race) and then I storage (or discharge to 3.7 to 3.9v/cell) charge for the night. It won't burn the house down. If the battery sits for more than a couple days either fully charged, or unbalanced, the cells can get unbalanced, if fully charged,it is more likely to be more dangerous, but most cases, lipos only become active when in use.

If I tuck the battery into its special bag each night is it safe in the house?

Yes, what most people do is store in a lipo safe or ammo can.With me I use my little fireproof bags, which I use for both charging and storing. Always store in a nice dry and cool place (like my basement for example, where my workbench and Rc stuff is)

With me with one of my batteries. I had it like fully charged for like 3 or 4 days, the cells became unbalanced and the IRs in that one cell went higher. So the battery cell voltage difference is like .8v (this is on a 2s 5200 80C Hoovo)

 

[bill_delong]

There is no danger in keeping the battery fully charged, however it will cause the battery lose capacity faster:
https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries

Basically you want to minimize the amount of time the cells are away from storage mode to get the longest lifespan.

Danger only comes into play with heat. Don't store your batteries in a hot garage in the summer or trunk of a car for example. These conditions are the most likely to cause a "spontaneous combustion". Most LiPo fires occur due to abuse from over charging or a high impact causing the case to crack/tear into the battery pouch.

The only way to know the current condition of your battery is to measure the IR when the pack is new and monitor the IR readings over time where I discuss my personal preferences around IR here:

• Which charger is the best?

I've never heard of a single case of a LiPo fire where someone knew that the IR reading was in the safe range.

I feel that a LiPo bag is a false sense of security without an IR meter. That's like having a spare tire but refusing to check the air pressure which would prevent a blow out in the first place, shrug. What many people do is look for signs of the battery case swelling and that's the equivalent visually seeing that a "tire is getting low on air" but without a gauge to measure you're just playing a dangerous guessing game.

Anyone concerned about LiPo safety will invest in a quality charger with an IR meter

 

[Tunedfrog]

I storage charge mine after every use and never put them away charges. That reduces the life of the battery.
After storage charging, I put each one in their individual Lipe bag and then all of them in a metal ammo box. They are within sight of me in the living room and easy to grab if I see smoke.
I put them outside if we leave the house for a couple days.
@Manderthal , if you follow the directions and take good care of them, then you have nothing to worry about.

 

[tntpoof]

There is Danger in having a fully charged lipo sitting out dont do it.like said in 1st reply 24 hours is max.
I use 2 buckets when I'm charging. with sand in both .if I have a battery go up I can drop it in a bucket then poor the other 1 ontop .run outside and leave it
this is what i use when charging at play or in the pit area.

 

[bill_delong]

There is Danger in having a fully charged lipo sitting out dont do it.like said in 1st reply 24 hours is max.

Please explain your perception of the risks, ideally I would like to see a link to an article which discusses the explicit danger in keeping a battery fully charged.

In contrast, there is a danger with charging a battery inside the house at cooler temps and then moving the battery outside with higher temps where an increase in temp will increase voltage which can cause premature wear of a battery. If you are going to immediately use the battery after moving from a cool temp to warmer temp, then that's going to be fine. But let's say you charge the battery inside and then place a fully charged battery in the trunk of your car during a hot summer day and drive 2 hours to the beach, then the extreme heat for an extended period will certainly damage the fully charged battery, and this danger can occur far sooner than 24 hours

Ideally, you want to charge a battery as close to the ambient temp that it will be used if not being used immediately after it's charged.

 

[tntpoof]

https://www.skystreamenergy.com/is-... such as dendrite formation and cell swelling.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/sho...oo-long-to-leave-a-Lipo-battery-fully-charged

https://brushlesswhoop.com/storing-fully-charged-lipo-batteries/

I can post 2.570.000 more but I'm sure there wrong also.LOL

 

[bill_delong]

https://www.skystreamenergy.com/is-it-safe-to-store-fully-charged-lipo-battery/#:~:text=If a LiPo battery is stored fully charged,,battery, such as dendrite formation and cell swelling.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/sho...oo-long-to-leave-a-Lipo-battery-fully-charged

https://brushlesswhoop.com/storing-fully-charged-lipo-batteries/

I can post 2.570.000 more but I'm sure there wrong also.LOL

None of these sources are from an expert, while their testimony is certainly helpful, they aren't going into the risks other than what I explained above by increasing heat to a fully charged battery.

The assumption we are making is that the OP will fully charge his battery in a climate controlled room, leave the battery fully charged until he's ready to use it. There is no inherent "danger" with this practice provided the battery remains at the same ambient temp. I will provide another screen shot from the same link I posted above which is a credible source:
https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries

If leaving batteries fully charged at 4.2V was any danger, then you would see cellphones and laptops being charged to far lower voltages for this "perceived safety concern" that you have:

 

[Manderthal]

OK so the question remains: do they need to be charged, used, set to storage after each use or can I use it for 15 minutes and put it in the bag overnight then use it again for 15 minutes, slowly depleting it over time?

 

[tntpoof]

sure that can be done manderthal.in those 2,7 million posts . whatever.

 

[bill_delong]

OK so the question remains: do they need to be charged, used, set to storage after each use or can I use it for 15 minutes and put it in the bag overnight then use it again for 15 minutes, slowly depleting it over time?

You have 2 different opinions and I've done my best to explain your options based on a credible resource.

Industry standard is best practice to charge the batteries immediately before use. HOWEVER, there is no risk/danger to leave a battery fully charged indefinitely provided you store it in a cool dry place. Batteries stored fully charged will lose capacity faster and need to be replaced sooner. I find that more damage occurs with the extreme demands I put on my batteries with race conditions and I'm lucky to get 6 months before I need to replace a battery on average and I always put my batteries in storage mode.

I've heard claims from bashers who continue to use batteries that are many years old and this is a far higher risk which I cautioned above about investing in a charger with an IR meter.

Please read the resource I linked above to better understand the limitations of these batteries.

 

[Pompanator]

I'm new to the hobby & forum. So, what I'm about to say my come under some ridicule but that's cool:
I've often wondered about the battery aspect regarding the dangers & precautions. Reading the preceding posts has actually helped me understand things better. I've learned in life that opinions are like rear-ends, everyone has one. Based on by brief experience, I've found that leaving the battery "not fully charged" has worked Ok for me. This is not to say this is the way to go b/c I probably don't have a sliver of experience of the people commenting on this thread. I do have a bag & I have used storage charge as well. However, I'm lazy & irresponsible. After a day of making some test hits, I've developed a habit of not storage charging the batteries. So basically, I've executed both methods of "charge or not to charge" (so to speak) without ish. But Like I said, I'm still learning. Hopefully my next post won't be about my house burning to the ground. Although, a house in my neighborhood did just that after a youngster left his electric scooter charging overnight, unattended. Very sad & scary.
thanks again to all you posters helping newbies like me find our way....

 

[Manderthal]

That's an interesting point about their relative safety after some degree of use / discharge. The articles mostly discuss fully charged batteries - not any that have some run-time on them or discharge through use.

 

[Manderthal]

Random bit of info that might be obvious to everyone else but was useful to me:
When the battery has been brought to "storage" status, it's still in useful condition for workbench setup and follow-up testing.

I added a servo for the dig function and another for the selectable overdrive ratios on my Vanquish Phoenix. There was a lot of trial and error as this was my first time installing and setting up servos from scratch. Then I brought the truck outside and ran it around the lawn a bit to test that everything was set and working properly.
I don't know how long exactly a battery set to storage will last but it's enough for workbench setup and short subsequent testing. That's useful.

 

[turbo27]

OK so the question remains: do they need to be charged, used, set to storage after each use or can I use it for 15 minutes and put it in the bag overnight then use it again for 15 minutes, slowly depleting it over time?

Why not just put them in storage charge? And what if something pops up, and you forget about them? Safety is NO accident. Just saying. Besides its your house.

 

[ahr43]

One thing yet to come up in this thread (unless I missed it): Never leave a charging LiPo unattended. It is tempting to put a LiPo on a charger and then go about other business at hand. I caution against doing that. LiPo's require dedicated attention. Best to have a shop project going to work on while the LiPo charges close at hand.

Manderthal shows a respectful concern for LiPo charging and storing. Which is a good place to start.

(Edit: here is a link to a LiPo primer blog post from another website. Bit lengthy but a good deal of info there:

LiPo Safety

 

[Manderthal]

Yes. That's a good point that cannot be stressed enough.

I think the safest solution for me, since I do not often go out running the little truck for long periods, is to bring the battery to storage level and if I need it for test and tune, or a quick romp in the grass here at home, it's still got enough juice for that. Longer outings requiring a full charge will of course require the attention and followup that have been outlined here and elsewhere.

 

[turbo27]

You're welcome. For all the advice you received. Good luck.I like what TNT said.

 

[ahr43]

Manderthal, if you are going to do runs with a LiPo at storage charge level, double check the LVC (Low Voltage Cutoff) on your ESC to ensure it complies with your battery manufacturers recommendations. Beginning runs at storage/partial charge level, the battery will drop to LVC quicker than normal.

Good luck. Cheers. 'AC'